Volume 10 Number 12
                       Produced: Sun Nov 21 11:41:45 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
G'milut Chasidim in Today's Yeshivot
         [Najman Kahana]
Kashrut of Mueslix
         [Reuben Gellman ]
Noachide Laws Binding?
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Shabbat and Yom Kippur
         [David Sherman]
         [Steve Prensky]
Source of Phrase from the Dreidal
         [Chaim Schild]
Talmud study vs. g'milut chasidim
         [Frank Silbermann]
Who's the minority?
         [Elchonon Rappaport]
Women and minyan
         [Jonathan Baker]
         [Sam Zisblatt]


From: mljewish (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 11:21:28 -0500
Subject: Administrivia

Three quick items:

1) in the Chanuka party anouncement, I neglected to say where I live.
Sorry about that. It is in Highland Park, NJ.

2) in the info about the some of the new items on the archive server, I
think I gave the incorrect spelling of one of the items, and also did
not have correctly set up for email access. The item is "heter.mechirah"
and is now (I hope) properly set for email archive retrieval.

3) all the responses to the recent anonymous posting are being forwarded
back to that poster. It did not appear to me that there were replies
that needed to go to the list as a whole, although I will reread them to
see. If anyone sent in a reply that they think should go to the list as
whole reather than just sent back to the original poster, please let me

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator


From: Najman Kahana <NAJMAN%<HADASSAH@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 08:00 JST
Subject: G'milut Chasidim in Today's Yeshivot

>I don't see where the justification for today's stress on Torah study can
>be found in the in the Torah sh'bichtav.  I am particularly concerned
>that today's Yeshivot seem to be stressing Torah study at the expense
>of other important values, such as g'milut chasidim.
Many Israeli Yeshivot set aside one afternoon a week for this purpose.
Both my son and my daughter, who attended Orot Etzion (Gush Etzion) Yeshiva,
participated in these programs.  They helped handicapped children and the

My son participated in a rather strange program: he taught "legally blind"
children the rules and techniques for playing group games.

As an aside, there is a well known Israeli oxymoron: this afternoon of
volunteer work is officially called 'Hitnadvut-Chova', which translates
to 'obligatory volunteering'!!

Najman Kahana


From: Reuben Gellman  <rsg@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 23:37:34 -0500
Subject: Kashrut of Mueslix

Here in Canada Mueslix (by Kelloggs) has a COR-- a perfectly reliable
hechsher (practising mutual recognition with OU, I believe). I **think**
I noticed a COR on Mueslix in the US as well. If it has one, it's fine
(although it might be dairy, which might be a concern if chalav yisrael
is an issue for you). You can tell by seeing whether the number
following the COR has the letter D appended.

Reuven Gellman


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 05:01:56 -0500
Subject: Noachide Laws Binding?

Jennifer Fisher notes that she once heard that Noachide laws are no
longer binding. Our Moderator is skeptical :-) . In fact, there is an
enigmatic - at least I don't understand it, and it is, to the best of my
knowledge not quoted by the Rambam - Gemara in Baba Kamma 38a which
states that Hashem saw that the goyim do not keep the seven laws, and he
therefore released them from their obligation. Some say they lost their
reward, but not the underlying obligation (? - my question mark.)

[Thanks, Yosef. I know there is lot's I don't know and always interested
in learning something new. Avi]


From: <dave@...> (David Sherman)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:14:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Shabbat and Yom Kippur

> From: <rotha@...> (Arthur Roth)
> (Can someone supply the source for the fact that a holier day always has
> a greater number of olim than a less holy day?  I remember that this is
> stated very unequivocally somewhere but don't remember exactly where.)

Gemara Megillah, 21a (in the Mishna, actually).  3 aliyos on Monday,
Thursday and Shabbos Mincha, 4 on Rosh Chodesh and Chol HaMoed, 5 on Yom
Tov, 6 on Yom Kippur, 7 on Shabbos.

(I'm not usually a maven on where to find things in the Gemara, but it's
happens to be just where I am in my chevrusa with Lazer Danzinger.  Some
of you may remember Lazer, who used to be active on mail.jewish and

David Sherman


From: <PRENSKY@...> (Steve Prensky)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 20:44:48 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Shtender

I am interested in acquiring a shtender for use in davening at home.  I
would appreciate information on:

(1) purchase - companies that sell/ship shtenders, and approximate cost.
(2) do-it-yourself designs and/or instructions.

I understand that Kibbutz Lavi makes beautiful stenders.  Can they be
purchased in the US or shipped here?  And if so, approximate cost.

You can respond directly to me.  Thanks in advance.

Steve Prensky


From: SCHILD%<GAIA@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 08:39:27 -0500
Subject: Source of Phrase from the Dreidal

What is the origins of the new statements:

Nes Gadol Haya Sham (Dreidel letters)
Nes Gadol Haya Poh



From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:20:50 -0500
Subject: Talmud study vs. g'milut chasidim

> In m.j, vol 9, #89, the following was said:
> >> ... (It is well known that yeshivot will not allow the students an
> >> afternoon off of learning so that they can perform acts of hesed,
> >> arguing that Torah study is more important. ...

> In m.j, vol 9, #98 Michael Allen says:
> I don't know of Yeshivot that forbid the talmidim to take some time
> off to perform such things as g'milut chasidim and bikur cholim.  To
> be fair, I don't know of any Yeshivot that organize field trips for
> such things either.

Yeshivot cannot endure purely on tuition and rely on Tzedaka.  This
means that every Yeshiva bocher is, almost without exception, being
subsidized in his study by the community.  There are always others who
want to learn but lack the opportunity.  A Yeshiva bochur He therefore
has an obligation to learn as much as he can as fast as he can, so that,
for any given goal of achievement, that he not to be any more of a
burden on the community than he must.

Therefore, it is best if he learn what he wishes as fast as possible,
then goes to earn a living, leaving his place at Yeshiva for someone
else.  Then he when he takes time off for g'milut chasidim and bikur
cholim, it will be purely his own contribution, and not subsidized by
the community without its intention.

Frank Silbermann	<fs@...>
Tulane University	New Orleans, Louisiana  USA


From: <ELCHANAN@...> (Elchonon Rappaport)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 12:17:11 IDT
Subject: Who's the minority?

Does anyone have any recent data on what percentage of the "orthodox"
world is "kipa sruga", what percentage is "yeshivish", what percentage
is "chassidic", etc.

It might be good to have this data before any of us make assumptions
about who is a "(very) very small minority".



From: <baker@...> (Jonathan Baker)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:33:17 -0500
Subject: Women and minyan

In the current issue of JUDAISM, Judith Hauptman, responding to
criticism of her position that women and men are equally obligated in
prayer and thus may both serve as prayer leaders, made an astonishing
claim.  Without regard to the substance of her article, I would like to
ask if anyone can rebut the following claim: that the Shulchan Aruch, in
Orach Chaim 55:1, is the first place in halachic history to describe
explicitly the requirement for ten adult, free males to compose a minyan
[quorum].  A cursory scan of earlier sources (Tur OH 55:1, B. Ber. 21b,
B. Meg. 23b (referenced by the Shulchan Aruch)) seems to bear out this
claim: it is only stated that matters of holiness require ten, without
regard to ten whats.  It can be inferred from the discussions that it
means ten adults, since there is discussion of whether or not a minor
holding a chumash can count as the tenth person, but there was no
discussion of women one way or another.

	Jonathan Baker


From: <zisblatt@...> (Sam Zisblatt)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 11:26:41 -0500
Subject: Yakov

 Uri Meth recently included in a posting that each of the AVOS (fathers)
had a special quality, and that Yakov's was Emes (honesty).  But it was
only this past week that we read in Parshas Toldos about Yakov deceiving
his father to get the Blessing of the Bechor (First born).  Any thoughts?
  Sam Zisblatt


End of Volume 10 Issue 12