Volume 10 Number 48
                       Produced: Mon Dec  6 18:31:22 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

A Yontev Zayde
         [Moshe Waldoks]
         [Warren Burstein]
Divine Providence
         [Hayim Hendeles]
Jonathan Pollard (3)
         [Alan Mizrahi, Hillel Markowitz, Yisroel Rotman]
Love and Faith
         [Robert J. Tanenbaum]
response to online Santa (Avi Hyman)
         [Daniel Kelber]
Small joke re: Thanksgiving Day
         [Arvin Levine]


From: <WALDOKS@...> (Moshe Waldoks)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 93 21:35:24 -0500
Subject: A Yontev Zayde

I'd love to see a way for our kids to be able to ask the questions they
have about being Jews and have them responded to by a credible
experienced and learned older Jew. A yontev zayde. M.Waldoksz


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 22:27:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Amalek

I'd like to remind readers that the details of exterminating Amalek
extends to the children of Amelelites.  Would anyone suggest that the
children of neo-nazis ought also to be made to quietly vanish?

/|/-\/-\       The entire auditorium		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter carrot.
 |warren@      But the Kibo
/ nysernet.org is not all that concerned.


From: Hayim Hendeles <hayim@...>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 23:25:40 -0800
Subject: Divine Providence

I come across a fascinating Chazal on the subject of Divine Providence
that I would like to share with the net.

The Zohar questions a very strange episode on this week's Parsha.  In
order to save Joseph's life and return Joseph to his father, Reuven
suggests they throw Joseph in the pit. However, questions the Zohar, if
there were snakes and scorpions in the pit, what did Reuven gain by this
- he was still placing Joseph's life in jeopardy?

Answers the Zohar (translation is mine; standard disclaimer follows...)
SUPER-DISCLAIMER: Whatever parts of Chazal are meant to be understood
literally, the Zohar is even less so. I do not know the True meaning of
these words, nor do I even understand any of it.  I only wish to share
with you the words. Please consult a competent authority for the correct
interpretation of these words.

Reuven perceived it extremely likely something would happen to Joseph
were he left in his brother's hands, being as they hated him so and
wished to kill him. Therefore, Reuven said it is preferable to throw him
into a pit with snakes and scorpions, rather then in the hands of his
enemies who would not take mercy on him. From here we can say it is
preferable for a person to throw himself into fire or into a pit of
snakes and scorpions rather then in the hands of his enemies.  Because
in a place of snakes and scorpions, if the person is reighteous, G-d
will perform a miracle for him. OR sometimes the merit of his
forefathers will help him and he will be saved.

However, once a man is given over into the hands of his enemy, it is
very rare(?)/few(?) that can be saved.

Therefore, concludes the Zohar, the posuk writes that Reuven did this in
order to "save Joseph MIYADAM" (lit. from their hands). The Posuk does
not simply say to "save Joseph" - the word MIYADAM is precise.

Again, these words are my own poor translation of an esoteric Chazal.  I
am only intending to share the literal translation of ther words.  Only
a competent authority is qualified to interpret these words.

Hayim Hendeles


From: <amizrahi@...> (Alan Mizrahi)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 00:32:46 EST
Subject: Jonathan Pollard

Jewish organizations do not defend Jonathan Pollard's actions because
they helped Israel, as suggested by David Charlap.  Most groups feel he
was unfairlysentenced.  He served enough time for his crime and should
be released.

At any rate, why is Israel's security not a good defense? The United
States had information that was vitally important to the security of
Israel which it chose to withhold.  What was the reason for withholding
this information?  A true ally would have warned Israel about the danger
she was in.  Jonathan saw this injustice and decided to take it into his
own hands.  I'm not saying he should not have been imprisonned, but he
should have been given a fair sentence.

President Clinton now has the power to right the wrongs of preceeding
administrations.  Please encourage him to do so.

-Alan Mizrahi

From: melech!<hem@...> (Hillel Markowitz)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 04:18:55 -0500
Subject: Jonathan Pollard

> As one who does not support your efforts, let me explain a little more.
> All these other people accused of spying (who got off with light
> sentances) were not citizens of the USA.  When a foreign citizen spies,
> it is espionage.  When an American deliberately violates his security
> clearance and gives secrets away, it is treason and not espionage.

I should point out that Jonathan Pollard is being treated more harshly
than Walker who was given a sentence of 25 years in prison with
eligibility for parole (I am unsure if after 8 or 12 years).  Walker
turned over complete military secrets to the Soviet Union which could
have caused immense damage had war broken out.

One of the arguments involved, is the much harsher treatment being
accorded Mr. Pollard when compared to long term traitors like the

Hillel Markowitz        <H_Markowitz@...>

From: Yisroel Rotman <SROTMAN@...>
Date: Thu,  2 Dec 93 18:28 0200
Subject: Jonathan Pollard

I would like to support the recent comment by David Charlap criticizing
American Jewry support of Jonathan Pollard.

In a general sense, we can discuss the response or actions of three
people or groups of people: Israel, American Jewry and Pollard.

 From the point of view of Israel, Pollard is an agent who was caught.
Obviously, Israel should do everything to get him out.

For American Jewry, it is a bit more complicated.  American Jewry seem
to have three responses why Pollard should be freed:

1.  "He has been punished enough relative to other people".  The problem
is, as far as I last heard, the exact list of material released by
Pollard to Israel has never been revealed.  How can American Jews be so
sure that his damage was less than other?

2.  "America should have been sharing the information anyway".  Sorry,
but governments, no matter how friendly, do not open all their secrets
to anyone.  And, such a decision, can never be left open to individuals.

3.  "Pollard was saving Jewish lives".  This is the most problematic
argument for religious jews (although why it would convince the American
Justice Dept. is not clear).

Assume that it is correct - that if you have information while working
on secret information for the U.S. government that may save Jews, you
should reveal it.  But do we really support this - if this is
halachically necessary, can any religious jew in good conscience sign
the papers when obtaining security clearance promising not to reveal
secrets.  Would this not effective bar religious jews from obtaining
sensitive positions in the U.S.?

The third party is Pollard.  For him, we may have sympathy and need not
judge him.

		Yisroel Rotman - SROTMAN@BGUEE


From: <btanenb@...> (Robert J. Tanenbaum)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 11:15:00 EST
Subject: Love and Faith

At age 40+ I've lived long enough to experience both good and bad love,
and good and bad faith. I believe that one informs the other.

I have a desire to be connected with my beloved that wells up from the
depth of my soul. When I express that desire the past is of no
consequence, and the future is of no concern. It is physical yet
transcends the physical. There is no tension nor any need for release,
just the experience of being connected to my beloved.

Such is faith. Faith cannot adequately explain the past. Nor does faith
guarantee the future. Faith in a loving G-d, subsumes the present, and
says NOW is the only thing that matters. I am connected to my G-d NOW.
This is the Simcha Shel Mitzva (Joy with religious service), the total
involvement in the Mitzva NOW that satisfies my soul's desire to connect
with her Creator.

Good love is simultaneously unconditional and demanding. It is
simultaneously open to the whole of me and requiring exclusive service.
It is understanding yet permits no rival.

Good faith is all of these. If it is conditional then it is abusive.  If
it is undemanding then it is without merit. If it rejects any part of
me, then it is unworkable.  If it is not exclusive, then it is wasted.
This is why both rigid fundamentalism on the one hand and free-thinking
on the other are both unable to sustain a living faith.

As we go about our business of Mitzva observance, let us not forget that
the purpose is to take the opportunity to connect ourselves to our most
loving Creator. There is never any reason to use the Torah to abuse
ourselves or others, even if one is obligated to hate the sin we must
not hate the sinner.

Ezra Bob Tanenbaum	1016 Central Ave	Highland Park, NJ 08904
home: (908)819-7533	work: (212)450-5735
email: <btanenb@...>


From: <XW0SDAK@...> (Daniel Kelber)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 05:54:18 -0500
Subject: Re: response to online Santa (Avi Hyman)

I truly belive that the American Jewish community has fear that if we do
not provide some kind of Jewish counter-balance to the Christian
holidays that our children will all convert or assimilate. While the
Americanized Christian holidays may be quite attractive to young
children, we must have more confidence in the beauty and wonder of our
own religion and people. It is fine if there were some kind of network
to entertain and educate our children. But then let's make it our own
and not any response to something that the gentiles are doing for their
kids. Too many kids in the U.S., both Jewish and non-Jewish, see Hanukah
as "the Jewish Christmas." It's time we put an end to that way of


From: <LEVINE_ARVIN@...> (Arvin Levine)
Date: 2 Dec 93 13:09:00 -0800
Subject: Small joke re: Thanksgiving Day

[A little humor always helps things along, but remember Purim is coming
soon, and with it the mail-jewish Purim Issue. Mod.]

Courtesy of my son (original as far as I know):
Q:  What would the last Thursday in Nov. be called if the observance was
    sanctioned by the O-U?

A:  Modim d'Rabanan!

/Arvin Levine


End of Volume 10 Issue 48