Volume 10 Number 88
                       Produced: Sun Dec 26 23:00:30 1993

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

10 sons of Rav Papa
         [Steven Friedell]
A story in need of details
         [Philip Trauring]
Disconnecting Terminal Patients
         [Morris Podolak]
Fasts on Friday
         [Michael Broyde]
Fasts on Fridays
         [Elliot D. Lasson]
Friday Night Kiddush for Women
         [Mindy Schimmel]
Laundry Detergent
         [Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank]
Rav Soloveitchik, dedication in " The Lonely Man of Faith"
         [Eli Turkel]
Reference of Reform Responsa
         [Joseph Greenberg]
Two days Rosh Chodesh and Rosh Hashanah
         [Sam Gamoran]
Weekly Parsha
         [Joseph V. Kaszynski]


From: Steven Friedell <friedell@...>
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 93 21:37:46 EST
Subject: 10 sons of Rav Papa

In a siyyum of a traactate there is a list of 10 sons of Rav Papa.  I
have heard that each name may be taken as one of the 10 commandments.
Does anyone know if Rav Papa really had 10 sons--is there any of source
for that or for these names?  If anyone can fill me in on how the names
relate to the 10 commandments (1 or 2 seem possible), that, too, would
be appreciated.  Also, when was the formula for the siyyum written?
Thank you.

                         Steven F. Friedell 
      Rutgers Law School, Fifth & Penn Streets, Camden, NJ 08102
  Tel: 609-225-6366    fax: 609-225-6516     <friedell@...>


From: Philip Trauring <philip@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 20:10:32 -0500
Subject: A story in need of details

I heard a story last year which I would like to re-tell at a simcha I am
going to be at next week...however, instead of just telling it
generically, I'd like to see if someone remembers the names and places
in the story, so it sounds a bit better. Here's the generic version I

A rabbi living in Russia/Eastern Europe? had a daugther getting married,
and sent out invitations to all his family and friends. The invitations
said something to the effect of 'We request the honor of your presence
at the wedding of our daugther on such and such a date, in the holy city
of Jerusalem. If, on the off-chance, the masciach has not come by then,
the wedding will take place in HOMETOWN.'

It's a cute story, and I'd really like to use it with the actual names
and places if possible. So, if anyone knows the names and places in the
story, please send them to me...thanks a lot. (Oh, and if you heard a
better way of telling it, then that would also be
appreciated...Hopefully, out of the 1000+ users of this list, someone
else heard the story.)

	Philip Trauring


From: Morris Podolak <morris@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 04:08:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Disconnecting Terminal Patients

Ben Berliant writes:

> 	Let's be a little careful in our definitions.  One is *NOT*
> permitted to "remove artificial means of sustaining life" if such are
> connected to the patient.  That comes under the category of disturbing
> the "gosess" (the dying patient), which was mentioned earlier in that
> m-j mailing.  Thus, IV's, respirators, etc. may *NOT* be removed from a
> dying patient.
> 	This is very different from stopping a loud noise, (or drawing a
> shade) which are external to the person.  I am not familiar with the
> source that David remembered, so perhaps someone can enlighten us both.

I don't want to say what is or is not permitted, I simply want to point
out that Rav Chaim David Halevi, the Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv ruled that
in certain cases the life support system may be turned off.  The
responsum is found in two places in his "Aseh Lecha Rav".  In the first
he simply stated his opinion in a lecture at a meeting of medical
doctors, in the second it seems he intended an actual psak.  



From: Michael Broyde <RELMB@...>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 19:08:54 -0500
Subject: Fasts on Friday

One of the writers mentioned that only 10 tevet falls out on Friday.
This is currently true; it was not always true.  Eruvin 40b explictly
discusses the situation of 9 Av falling out on Friday (and it is from
this that we learn what to do when 10 Tevet does).  In addition, many
rishonim thought that when Purim was on Sunday, Tanit Ester was on
Friday (and not, as is our minhag, Thursday).  See, for example, Meiri's
Magen Avot at Purim.  That custom continued well into the 1500's.  In my
opinion, that is why the Rama in the laws of Tanit(550:3) is
deliberately vague as to which fast days he was refering to.


From: <Elliot_David_Lasson@...> (Elliot D. Lasson)
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 13:03:54 EST
Subject: Fasts on Fridays

As we all know, this past weekend we had the infrequent occurence of the
10th of Tevet fast day, falling on a Friday.  Someone reminded me that
this occurred about 10 years ago, as well.  My question is whether there
is a pattern or formula as to when this happens.  Are there any "bekeim"
(experts) in this component of the Jewish calendar out there?

Elliot D. Lasson, Ph.D.
14801 W. Lincoln, #104 - Oak Park, MI 48237-1210
E-mail: <FC9Q@...>


From: <MINDY@...> (Mindy Schimmel)
Date: Sun,  26 Dec 93 1:29 +0200
Subject: Friday Night Kiddush for Women

A while back, I ate at the home of my LOR (actually, I think it was Sukot and
we ate in the Suka).  He made the following point: Men and women are both
obligated mi-de-Oraita (Biblically) to say Kiddush on Friday night.  However,
the mitzva de-Oraita is just to say some form of Kiddush; this mitzva can be
fulfilled by davening Ma`ariv and saying "va-Yekhulu" ([the heaven and earth]
were finished).  It is only de-Rabbanan (Rabinically) that one is obligated
to say Kiddush over wine.
Now, let us assume that a man has davened Ma`ariv (perhaps in shul) on Friday
night.  Let us further assume that his wife has stayed home and has not
davened at all.  He then, has fulfilled his obligation de-Oraita, while she
is still obligated de-Oraita to say Kiddush.  How then can he, whose
obligation to Kiddush is only de-Rabbanan, say Kiddush for her, whose
obligation to Kiddush is de-Oraita?
To clarify the position of my LOR, I would add that his point was that women
should daven on Friday night, but for women who haven't davened, this seems
to raise a serious problem if they have a man (or someone else who has davened
Ma`ariv) say Kiddush for them.

Mindy (Malka) Schimmel (<mindy@...>)


From: Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank <ACOOPER@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 93 14:34:12 -0500
Subject: Laundry Detergent

Cam someone recommend a pamphlet or article on issues pertaining to the
kashrut or non-kashrut of laundry detergents?  A friend who works for a
major manufacturer of such products has asked if there is anything in
print that is both informative and authoritative.  I have directed her
to the local Vaad, of course.  If this does not strike you as an
appropriate topic for the list, please respond to me privately.

With thanks and good wishes,
Alan Cooper


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 93 19:05:08 +0200
Subject: Rav Soloveitchik, dedication in " The Lonely Man of Faith"

     The dedication in " The Lonely Man of Faith" is

A Woman of great courage, sublime dignity, total commitment,
and uncomprising truthfulness

Eli Turkel


From: Joseph Greenberg <72600.225@...>
Date: 24 Dec 93 11:19:18 EST
Subject: Reference of Reform Responsa

Regarding Mayer Danziger's comments regarding the use of a Reform
responsa, I have one question: if a Reform Rabbi quoted from Rambam,
would we by definition reject that Rambam, or ignore what the Rabbi
had to say? Clearly not - Rambam is open (such as it is) to all Jews,
and all people.... religious affiliation and observance aside. The
simple fact that a Reform responsa was mentioned on this list (which
I admit suprised me, but for different reasons) does not invalidate
the content of that post or this list, and I would add that the
manner in which it was mentioned, as our Mod. pointed out, was what I
would consider exemplary..... who you learn from isn't as important
as what you learn.


From: gamoran%<milcse@...> (Sam Gamoran)
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 93 03:52:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Two days Rosh Chodesh and Rosh Hashanah

Re: From: <blg@...> (Brian Goldfarb)

> My question is why do we celebrate Rosh Hashanah on the 31st and 32nd.
> Elul always has 30 days.  These 2 days never would have been celebrated
> as Rosh Hashanah

To the best of my knowledge (and looking on a calendar!) Elul always has
29 days so we do celebrate R"H on the "30th and 31st" (e.g. Tishrei 1,2)


From: Joseph V. Kaszynski <KASZYNSKI.JOSEPH@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 13:03:00 CST
Subject: Weekly Parsha

    	Does anyone know of a subscription list that would send weekly
e-mails of the Parsha??? Does anyone on this list feel that they could
make such a contribution???


End of Volume 10 Issue 88