Volume 11 Number 50
                       Produced: Fri Jan 28  7:10:04 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Hidden Codes
         [Aliza Berger]
Information on a Charity
         [Sam Saal]
Internet Warning
Kiddush Clubs
         [Freda Birnbaum]
Reading List info
         [Avi Feldblum]


From: <A_BERGER@...> (Aliza Berger)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 12:07:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hidden Codes

Someone mentioned to me that an article about the codes will appear soon
in a statistical journal.  Does anyone know the reference?

Aliza Berger


From: Sam Saal <SSAAL@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 11:43:34 -0500
Subject: Information on a Charity

I get lots of begging letters from various charitable institutions and try 
to find out something about them before sending money.  This weekend I got a 
letter from "Givat Haviva" an organization that tries to bring together 
Arabs and Jews to learn to live together. As part of the begging package, 
there was a question and answer sheet.  One of the questions was 'What is 
the attitude of Israelis toward Givat Haviva?"

I called the organization to ask what the Arab attitude towards the 
organization was and whether similar begging letters were sent to 
Arab-Americans. The voice on the phone said "of course."  I asked for a copy 
of the letter an Arab-American might get and the voice at the other end of 
the line said "I don't like your attitude" and he hung up on me.

This makes me suspicious.  Should it?  Does anyone know anything about this 
organization?  I am not inclined to support a "guteh neshama" organization 
that works towards getting Jews to be the only ones to give money to help 
all the rest of the world.  Yes, if legitimate, this would help Jews, but if 
it will also help Arabs, shouldn't they be solicited, as well?

Sam Saal      <ssaal@...>
Vayiphtach HaShem et Peah Ha'atone


From: Anonymous
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 13:36:04 -0500
Subject: RE: Internet Warning

[Note: the RISKS-LIST is a moderated high quality Usenet group on Risks
and Issues related to Computers in modern society. Mod.]

excerpt from :
RISKS-LIST: RISKS-FORUM Digest  Saturday 15 January 1994  Volume 15 : Issue 38
Date: Sat 8 Jan 94 16:23:27-PST
From: Mabry Tyson <TYSON@...>
Subject: (Mis)Information spreads like wildfire

In the message below, I try to be careful to use "allegedly", "claimed", etc.,
to indicate information that I have been lead to believe was correct but that
I have not checked up on myself.  By using these words, I do not mean that the
statements are incorrect or correct, only that I am not sure of their

On Friday, 8-Jan-1994, I received a message (apparently originally sent on
Tuesday) that discussed a certain company that was (allegedly) advertising
"free Internet access" but required you to Fax them a credit card number.
This message was from someone who claimed to be in a position of knowing all
the service providers in that area and had checked up on that company.  The
message indicated that the "Suite" address was just a P.O. Box at a non-US
Postal Service provider and the phone number just got you to voice mail.  The
message also indicated that the Internet address you would get was not
registered with the INTERNIC and was not in a couple of (milnet) hosts tables.

I took the message at face-value (I still have no reason to doubt the sender
or his intent) and sent a message to another very large and wide-spread
mailing list that was a warning about giving your credit card number out to
receive Internet access without checking out the company.  Thankfully, I chose
not to give the name of the company.

A few hours later, David Oppenheimer pointed out in a reply to that same
mailing list that the Internet address did in fact exist and was registered to
a company of the same name.  The addresses were different (different states)
but at this point, I suspect that it is the same company.

I received the original message as a private one from a friend and also saw it
distributed on a largish mailing list (to which it had been forwarded from
another mailing list).

(On Saturday, I informed the list I saw it on of the corrections that
Oppenheimer pointed out.)

I wonder how many people saw the original message that contained some
apparently incorrect information.  This kind of misinformation can spread so
quickly.  The corrections may not reach all the people who saw the first

(I've just now learned of 8 other mailing lists it was forwarded to.)

There are some lessons to be learned:
        1.  Don't give your credit card number to anyone without checking
                them out.
        2.  Don't presume that the info in a message is correct just because
                someone sent it.
        3.  Don't be too quick to spread information that you haven't
                checked out personally.
                Misinformation can spread like wildfire.  Furthermore, for all
                I know (not being a lawyer), you might be held legally
                responsible for spreading it.
        4.  Don't presume that the sender of a message is who he says
                he is.  (NOTE:  The sender of the original message may
                really be who he says he is.  However, *I* haven't checked
                on that.)
        5.  After reading the above, how do you know I am who I say I am?

   [I know Mabry and he would never play tricks.  He's very reliable.  
   I also checked out the original offer.  It was indeed genuine, although
   somewhat misleading.  The Internet connections may have been free, but
   the users are still going to get stuck for higher-than-usual telephone
   charges.  PGN.]

Mabry Tyson  <Tyson@...>
The views and opinions expressed are mine personally and do not necessarily
represent the views, opinions, or policies of my employer.


From: Freda Birnbaum <FBBIRNBA@...>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 94 09:25:52 -0500
Subject: Kiddush Clubs

Re several responses about kiddush clubs in V11N27:

Barry Siegel asks:

>In addition, it appears to me that the majority of Haskomo minyunaires
>are the "serious" daveners.  At our Haskomo minyun of approx 60 men folks,
>I estimate that 90% of the same also come to daily (morning or evening)
>services. Is this your perception also?


>However not to deviate from my original Kiddush Clubs posting, I fail
>to see why this gives the Kiddush Club goers the right to show such
>appalling disrespect to the Davening, Rav, Congregation, Shul etc.
>If davening length is a problem, pick up a sefer and learn/read.
>I can even accept going out of the shul and talking once in a while.
>What I can't fathom is these Kiddush Club folks leaving EVERY week
>and displaying such revolting, jewish practices and non-consideration.

I second the motion, vociferously.

Joshua Wise comments:

>Regarding Kiddush Clubs, Freda Birnbaum says:
>>My hunch is that these clubs appear in Orthodox and not Reform or
>>Conservative settings because the Orthodox services are so
>>loooooooong... C and R services are much shorter AND the folks are more
>>in awe of Western "manners" which think it rude to leave before the end
>>except for an emergency.
>       First of all, in my experiences Conservative services are
>considerably longer than Orthodox minyans.

Yes, someone else pointed that out to me in a private post.  Perhaps another
reason the folks don't get so itchy is that the proceedings (or some of the
proceedings) are in a language they more easily understand (English).  (This
is not a recommendation, just an observation.)

>Second, there is no rational reason to assume that Reform and
>Conservative individuals have better manners than Orthodox, and frankly
>I am insulted at the insinuation.

Ooops.  I thought my quotation marks around the word "manners" would have
taken care of that objection.  Sorry it wasn't clearer.

>Third, if a service is that long, people will get impatient and want to

There does seem to be a variety of preferences -- some people prefer the
operatic CANTOR, some the just-do-it shatz; same re sermons or not etc.

>       I had never heard of a "Kiddush Club" until yesterday, and I
>agree that is a sign of incredible chutzpah. If these people find the
>Rabbi that boring, they should start their own minyan in another place.


>My only objections to the discussions are the consistent implications
>that only American Orthodox Jews are capable of such rudeness.

I didn't mean to imply that; sorry for the misimpression.  I meant that
the less-formal (in terms of Western "manners") style in O. shuls makes
it easier for the Kiddush clubbers to get away with it in O. services
than R. or C., unless the rabbi and the congregation make it clear that
that isn't acceptable (e.g. refusing to give kiddush clubbers aliyas).

Rivkah Isseroff comments:

>>From: <sieg@...> (Barry Siegel)
>>Please do not confuse this with the practice of Bal-abatim [members]
>>leaving during Musaf repetition for the specific purpose of setting up
>>the congregation Kiddush following services.
>I ask whether this custom of the (presumably male) Bal-abatim setting up
>the kiddush during the Mussaf repetition is Halachically correct, or
>would this activity be better relegated to the women congregants who are
>not obligated in Tefillah at this specific time. Just asking :-)

I assume Rivkah is joking.
I would like to know why.

Freda Birnbaum, <fbbirnbaum@...>


From: <ayf@...> (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 09:44:16 EST
Subject: Reading List info

Just a periodic reminder:

Daniel Faigin maintains an on-line list of books on many many Jewish
subjects. The various reading lists may be found on:

israel.nysernet.org [] in the directory:
They are available in the rtfm.mit.edu archives in the directory:
The files in the directory are: general, traditional, chasidism, reform,
conservative, reconstructionist, humanistic, zionism, antisemitism,
intermarriage, periodicals.  The files may also be obtained via Email by
sending a message to <mail-server@...> with the following line in
the body of the message:
        send usenet/news.answers/judaism/reading-lists/(portionname)
Where (portionname) is replaced by the appropriate filename; for example,
to get the first part of the reading list, one would say: 
        send usenet/news.answers/judaism/reading-lists/general

Avi Feldblum
<avi_feldblum@...>    or  ayf@volta.pr.att.com


End of Volume 11 Issue 50