Volume 11 Number 57
                       Produced: Tue Feb  1 23:32:58 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Censorship & Reform Responsa
         [Janice Gelb]
Erev Pesach on Shabat (3)
         [Elhanan Adler, Aryeh Blaut, Danny Skaist]
Megillat Purim on Shabbat
         [Danny Weiss]
Press Coverage
         [Finley Shapiro]
Ta'amei Hamikra
         [Dr. Jeremy Schiff]
Yidimu in Shirat Hayam
         [Gedalyah Berger]


From: <Janice.Gelb@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 18:35:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Censorship & Reform Responsa

In mail.jewish Vol. 11 #47 Digest, Sam Saal said:

>The charter of mail.jewish requires posts to assume a halachic basis.
>Had Dan's sources been RFB (Reform From Birth), or even assimilated who
>moved up in observance to Reform, as opposed to those who reject
>Orthodoxy, I would have been more comfortable accepting the input as
>appropriate in mail.jewish. But these people have explicitly rejected
>orthodoxy and that is just as explicitly counter to the mail.jewish
>charter.  I find it harder to defend posting their scholarship in
>mail.jewish given this rejection of the charter.

I think Sam has shifted the emphasis of the charter just a little:
imho it is the *content* of posts to M.J. that must assume a halachic
basis, not the post*ers*. As other people have noted, there is no way
to tell the religious background or qualifications of anyone who reads
or posts to M.J. except by the content of the posts they send. If the
reform responsa used a halachic basis and halachic reasoning to reach
its conclusion, posting it was not in violation of the charter. Whether
the people who authored it accept the binding nature of halacha is not
a question we legitimately can or should ask, nor is it relevant to the

Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
<janiceg@...>   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 


From: <ELHANAN@...> (Elhanan Adler)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 02:56:04 -0500
Subject: Erev Pesach on Shabat

I don't believe anyone has mentioned another option - eating something
which is not hametz, is invalid for use at the seder, but still requires

Various types of "matsa ashirah" ("rich" matsa, containing other
ingredients) would fit this description - and even though young, health
Ashkenazim do not eat matsa ashirah on Pesah (Rema permits it only for
the sick and aged) on erev Pessah it solves the problem nicely, without
having to worry about eating early or getting rid of the crumbs on

Although I imagine there are some who say that matsa ashirah shouldn't
be eaten on erev pessah either, I remember several years ago our LOR
recommending whole-matza "French toast" for the Shabbat-erev-pessah

* Elhanan Adler                   University of Haifa Library              *
*                                 Mt. Carmel, Haifa 31905, Israel          *
* Israeli U. DECNET:      HAIFAL::ELHANAN                                  *
* Internet/ILAN:          <ELHANAN@...>                          *

From: Aryeh Blaut <ny000592@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 03:54:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Erev Pesach on Shabat

>From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
>as to making seder preparations on the Shabat, everything should have been
>done *prior* to the Shabat as the house need be "pesachdik" by the
>entrance of Shabat.  For housewives, as my wife tells me, this should be
>the most relaxed of Shabatot and the women especially should be all
>relaxed by the time the men go the Arvit service and then all that needs
>to be done is to set the table - the charoset, maror, shankbone as well
>as the cooking having been done Thursday night-Friday.

To my knowledge, there could be a problem with preparing the maror as 
early as Thursday night-Friday.  Chok Leyisrael p. 93:63 tells of how to 
even check for insects in the romaine lettuce on Yom Tov.

Aryeh Blaut

From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 05:58:34 -0500
Subject: Erev Pesach on Shabat

>Yisrael Medad
>the custom here in Israel, is to make the motzi on the challot rolls
>*outside* the house on the balcony and after brushing off crumbs to

To the best of my knowledge the only real "Issur" [forbidden] is on matzoh
which you can use for the mitzvah of "eating matzoh" that night (although
humros abound).  The last time around, I heard (but never actually saw in
print) that Rav Ovadiya Yosef suggested eating matzos soaked in eggs and
fried. "French Toast" matzot are not acceptable for the mitzvah of matzoh.

There is also "Matzoth Ashirot" [rich matzot] which are made without water.
Known in the U.S. as "egg matzoth" (the passover equivalent of "mezonos
rolls") which may or may not be eaten on passover proper (see the Horowitz
Margareten box for the sources in the shulchan orech) but are perfectly
acceptable for erev pessach. Though like mezonos rolls you need a large
ammount to be kovea a seuda.

This year there should be egg matzos in the stores in Israel.
This permits you to eat at the dining room table off pessach dishes.



From: <Danny@...> (Danny Weiss)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:36:02 -500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Megillat Purim on Shabbat

In Vol 11, #43 Gedalyah Berger wrote
> The megillah can't be read on Shabbos because Chazal were worried that 
> the megillah would be improperly carried to shul. (The same gezeirah 
> applies to lulav and shofar.)  The Yerushalmi says that the se`udah can't 
> be on Shabbos based on a derashah from a pasuk in the megillah.  (Some 
> acharonim felt that the Bavli disagreed - see M"B ibid.)

As I understood it, the prohibition of blowing a shofar on Shabbat or of
using a lulav is based upon the concern that one will hear the shofar
(for example), and then go home, grab one's own shofar and carry it in a
reshut ha'rabim (public domain) to a learned person to be taught how to do
it too. There is no prohibition, per se, in performing the mitzvah on
Shabbat. An obvious analogy is a brit milah (circumcision), on
Shabbat, which is done wherever it is to be done (shul, home, etc.) and the
instruments are taken there before Shabbat to avoid the problem of carrying
on Shabbat in a reshut ha'rabim. I suppose Chazal did not fear (for
obvious reasohns) that someone would run home, get their own implements,
and carry them to the nearest mohel for instructions in the art of brit milah!

Danny Weiss


From: Finley Shapiro <Finley_Shapiro@...>
Date: 28 Jan 1994 11:13:27 U
Subject: Press Coverage

> I know we try to eschew politics here, but sometimes extraordinary
> measures are required. In last Friday's Jerusalem Post there was an
> article by the editor, David Bar Ilan about the heavy handed censorship
> being wielded by the Jewish establishment inthre US to prevent any
> platform for those opposed (or even mildly concerned about either the
> government's agreement with the PLO or the way in which negotiations are
> developing). NO Federation papers print articles which do not toe the
> Peres/Beilin line. No speakers are allowed address Jewish groups without
> being sure they will be 100% behind the present government.

Ariel Sharon and Rabbi Yechiel Leiter spoke on January 18th at a
synagogue in Philadelphia.  I was not present, but the event was covered
in the weekly Jewish Exponent a few days later.  The locally written
article by Steve Feldman was titled "Accords were 'a mistake,' Ariel
Sharon tells Jews here."  Rabbi Leiter was identified in the article as
a "spokesman for Yesha, the council of Jewish communities of Judea,
Samaria and Gaza."  It went on to say that "The two men are on a
nationwide tour of major American Jewish communities."  The article
contained many short quotes from the men's talks.  These included:

"'Jews should raise their voices,' in Israel and in the United States,
in protest to the accords, Sharon said."

"Leiter, in his pitch for support, advised the audience to 'be
concerned; be committed; open up your minds, your hearts, and your
pocketbooks -- but don't be worried.'"

The Jewish Exponent is a weekly newspaper owned and published
by the Jewish Federation of Philadelphia.  The previous issue of
the Jewish Exponent carried a half page advertisement for the
upcoming talk.  The Jewish community in the Philadelphia area is
probably the third or fourth largest in the United States.

I believe this contradicts the statement reported in Jeff's posting.
I agree with the value of keeping politics out of mail.jewish, but in
this case I feel it is necessary to set the record straight.  Please do
not attribute to me any political opinion on the accord between Israel
and the PLO based on this posting.

Finley Shapiro


From: <schiff@...> (Dr. Jeremy Schiff)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 11:18:40 +0200
Subject: Ta'amei Hamikra

A while back, when I had the opportunity to learn ta'amei hamikra
in yeshiva (I can't say which publicly because there is some 
sentiment in more right-wing communities that learning ta'amei 
hamikra is bitul Torah, at least to the extent of not meriting
being taught in yeshiva gedola), the pasuk "Tzalelu KeOferet BeMayim 
Adirim" was used to demonstrate why ta'amei hamikra are necessary.
Without taamei hamikra it can mean:

1. They (i.e.the Egyptians) sank, like lead in deep water.

2. They (i.e.the Egyptians) sank like lead, in deep water.

3. The glorious (i.e.the Egyptians) sank, like lead in water.

4. The glorious (i.e. the Eqyptians) sank like lead, in water.

(in 1,3 the lead is in the water, in 2,4 the Egyptians are;
I might have forgotten other possible pshatim). Even with the
taamei hamikra (which divide the phrase into two two-word
subphrases) 2 and 4 are possible (though 2 seems more
convincing), and I seem to remember a machloket achronim on this 
point though can't quote who and where. 

(The upshot of this and Ephraim Becker's recent joke about
this pasuk is that it's all in the way you tell 'em.)



From: Gedalyah Berger <gberger@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 18:35:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Yidimu in Shirat Hayam

> From: Ephraim Becker <becker@...>
> We read the shira ("Az Yashir" the song of Moshe following the
> deliverance at the sea) today and the baal koreh (reader) was corrected
> for reading the word in 15:17 as "yidmu" rather than the correct
> "yidimu."After a millisecond of annoyance at the seemingly trivial
> correction (everyone on m.j. is supposed to be confessing to something -
> it's kinda folksy) it occured to me that there may, indeed, be a
> significant, albeit common, error here.Yidmu ka'aven could (be
> corrupted to) mean 'compared to a stone' whereas yidimu ka'aven would
> mean 'silenced like a stone.'

(Warning: Technical terminology ahead.)

"Yidmu," with a sheva-nach under the dalet, indeed means "will be
similar to" (from the word "domeh"), while "yiddemu," with a dagesh in
the dalet and a sheva-na` under it, means "will be silent" (from
"domeim").  The second is, as you said, correct (as it must be, because
the first would have had to have been "yidmu LA'aven," not "KA'aven).

Gedalyah Berger
Yeshiva College / RIETS


End of Volume 11 Issue 57