Volume 11 Number 77
                       Produced: Fri Feb 11 10:36:22 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Building the 3rd Temple (2)
         [Tova Roth, Chaim Sukenik]
         [Eric Safern]
Halakhic approach to mental illnes
         [Todd Litwin]
Israel Supreme Ct. Decision
         [Steven Friedell]
Jews & dogs
         [Joseph Mosseri]
Jews and Dogs
         [Sam Gamoran]
Modernizing Bayit #3
         [David Zimbalist]
Pets on Pesach
         [Ben Berliant]
Rebuilding the 3rd Temple
         [Sam Gamoran]


From: <tova@...> (Tova Roth)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 13:26:15 -0500
Subject: Building the 3rd Temple

There is an organization in Israel called Machon HaMikdash, directed
by Rav Ariel, which is building vessels and architectural plans for the
Third Temple. They believe that it is a positive commandment (vi-asu
li mikdash vi-shacahanti bi-tocham) to build a Beit Mikdash given certain
conditions (the resettlement of Jews in Israel, the opportunity to do so
without endangering lives, and perhaps other conditions which I am not
familiar with).
There is an architect in Jerusalem - a talmid chacham, who has devoted
much time to learning Temple-related topics. He is building a halachic
model of the Temple on computer.
As long as the halachic parameters, based on sources in the Mishnah and
Talmud, are adhered to, it is permissible to add embelishments.
The architect has built electricity and plumbing into his model and
plans to incorporate other modern technological features.

We can see historically that much of the design of the Temple is
not specified by halacha - Ezra and Nechemia built a Temple as was
within their means at the time. Herod, in order to win the politically
important approval of the Jews - especially the Chachamim - rebuilt
the Second Temple into the most grandiose edifice of its time, with
the sanction of the Chachamim.

Rendered views of the model in progress by Machon Hamikdash can be
seen at the Machon Hamikdash Museum in the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem.

From: Chaim Sukenik <cns@...>
Date: 10 Feb 1994   20:24:35 GMT
Subject: Building the 3rd Temple

> From: Hayim Hendeles <hayim@...>
> I had an interesting question about the construction of the 3rd Temple.
> Granted the specifications of the Temple must come from a prophet. So,
> on one hand, perhaps this question is moot. Either the building plans
> containing plumbing or they don't. And whatever it is, we can't change 
> it. Or, perhaps, I could argue, that the plans did not go to this level
> of detail, and we might be free to add pipes/wires INSIDE the walls,
> where they would not be visible.
Can this question be expanded a bit? It is not only unclear to me as to 
the level of detail that will be included in the plans but:
1) Who says there will be any detail at all other than the need to provide
places for each relevant activity?
2) Whereas the specifications for the mishkan that Moshe built are stated
clearly in the Torah, to what extent are they to be used as a model for
the structure of a permanent Temple (1st, 2nd, or 3rd)? I assume that the
keilim (vessels) will conform to the Torah's description of the originals,
but it is not clear to me what this says about the building.
3) What was the source of Shlomo Hamelech's (King Solomon's) instructions 
for the first Temple? We are told the details of what he did, but (as far
as I know) there is no explicit set of commands that he received mentioned.


From: <esafern@...> (Eric Safern)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 13:14:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Emden/Eybeschutz

Hayim Hendeles <hayim@...> asks us to close the
Emden/Eybeschutz discussion:

>First of all, with all due respect to this "certain Rav", I doubt
>he is any greater or more learned then Reb Yaakov Emden zt"l. And
>we know definitively that Reb Yaakov Emden did misunderstand some
>of Reb Yonasan Eibshitz' writings. Therefore, it is quite reasonable
>to assume the same with this "certain Rav".
(text removed)
>IMHO postings like the above are of no benefit to the Jewish people.
>Posting malicious rumors about people who are long dead and can no
>longer defend themselves is of no benefit to the Jewish people,
>and may, in fact, be Motzi-shem-Ra (slander). And how much worse is
>this sin, when the target is a great Sage.
>I respectfully request that this topic be considered closed, as there
>can be no benefit in any future discussion.

I feel I have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Hendeles.  I consider
this topic worthwhile.

May I remind him that he first cited R. Emden's actions as a shining 
example of how a gadol should behave when he opposes another gadol?

Surely the terrible things R. Emden said about R. Eybeshutz can only
be justified (if then) if R. Eybeshutz was in fact a Sabbatean. At the
very least, we must show that the evidence supported R. Emden's claim.

If we can't do at least this, R. Emden must be considered a nut (CV"S).

In fact, there is strong evidence in this regard.  Just as a  start,
please see Sid Z. Leiman's paper, _R. Ezekiel Landau's Attitude Toward R.
Jonathan Eybeschutz_ where he conclusively proves that R. Landau considered
R. Eybeschutz a Sabbatean.  (further information on request)


From: <litwin@...> (Todd Litwin)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 03:40:44 -0500
Subject: Halakhic approach to mental illnes

Matthew Epstein asked about sources concerning mental illness. In Rabbi
J.  David Bleich's "Contemporary Halakhic Problems, Volume II," pp.
283-310, there are two articles of interest. In the first, "Mental
Incompetence and Its Implications in Jewish Law," he reviews the various
understandings of the term "shoteh" and what such a person's obligations
are with regard to the mitzvot.  In "Torah Education of the Mentally
Retarded" he discusses both the individual and communal obligations for
teaching the mentally deficient.


From: Steven Friedell <friedell@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 22:22:05 EST
Subject: Israel Supreme Ct. Decision

Apparenly the Israel Supreme Court decided an important case last week, Bavli
v. Bavli, in which it reversed the rabbinical courts which had refused to
apply an Israeli statute giving women a 50% share in the marriage property
upon divorce.  Instead the rabbinical courts wanted to apply Halakhah.  This
I learn from the newspapers.
	1) Can anyone provide me a copy of the decision.
	2) Can anyone explain why this issue is being litigated now--I was
under the impression that it was settled in a Sup. Ct. case in 1982?
	3) What are the political ramifications of this case if the
rabbinical courts refuse to go along?
Thank you.
                         Steven F. Friedell 
      Rutgers Law School, Fifth & Penn Streets, Camden, NJ 08102
  Tel: 609-225-6366    fax: 609-225-6516     <friedell@...>


From: <JMOSSERI@...> (Joseph Mosseri)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 1994 22:35:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Jews & dogs

I must totally disagree with the notion of Cossacks and pogroms and dogs.
The disdain for dogs goes back much further.
I don't know if this is true but I profer that this goes back to the days of
the Gemara.
"one should not rear a (vicious) dog in one's home" Ketoubot 41a
"dogs hate one another" Pesahim 113b
"who eats in the market is like a dog" Qidoushin 40b
"who breeds a (unuly) dog in his house keeps kindness away" Shabat 63a
"when a dog is hungry, it eats even dung" Baba Qama 92b

What do think??

Joseph Mosseri


From: gamoran%<milcse@...> (Sam Gamoran)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 13:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Jews and Dogs

Re: Jews and Dogs [Etan Shalom Diamond <ed16+@andrew.cmu.edu>]

As the owner of (probably) the largest dog in our Yishuv (Hashmonaim,
Ramat Modi'im) and with Lon Eisenberg next door also having two big ones
I feel compelled to say something here.  (Avi can affirm that Junior is
a big dog - we brought him with us to NJ last year and often Avi and I
talked when Junior took me for a walk down the block we both lived on :-)).

I don't know of the reason for the antipathy to dogs, although I know
that few of our Jewish neighbors in Queens had one when I was growing
up.  In Israel dogs seem somewhat more accepted.  We decided to get one
when Lon's dog sired a litter. Junior's father is so gentle with kids
that Roxane couldn't resist.

Out in the boonies, it seemed a good form of protection.  Shortly before
we got him, we had a break-in/robbery (Arabs??).  These dogs seem to
have an innate antipathy to Arabs (cooking smells? bathing habits? I
don't know) so while they are OK with us, they frighten any would-be
molester.  And then Junior grew... and grew... so even many of our
neighbors are now wary.

The town also grew and is now more suburban than boonies so that where
it once didn't matter, when one of the dogs takes off for a nighttime
tiyul... (they escape to chase cats, etc.) it's uncomfortable.

As far as our Sephardi/Eastern/Teimani neighbors - they mostly seem to
be afraid of dogs.  Sometimes with good reason.  The dogs sometimes seem
to behave with them as with Arabs (maybe its skin color?).

Despite occasional nuisance, we keep them as "v'nishmartem
l'nafshoteichem" (guarding our lives).  These burglar alarms are kept
activated even on Shabbat!


From: David Zimbalist <MDZIMBAL@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 17:30:58 -0500
Subject: Modernizing Bayit #3

Hayim Hendeles brings up some interesting points about modern devices
in a Bais HaMikdash.  I have heard from a friend who is close with R.
Heyneman (sp?) of Baltimore.  According to my friend, R. Heyneman has
often spoken about a Bais HaMikdash with flourescent lighting etc.


From: Ben Berliant <C14BZB@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 17:30:49 -0500
Subject: Pets on Pesach

Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...> Asks:

>Any ideas anybody on what we should do with our two guinea pigs and a
>hamster on Pesach. We're going away for Pesach and will have to dump
>them on some kind soul. Should we sell them and their food when we
>sell the Chometz?

	I believe the answer is yes.  When I posed a similar question to
my LOR, he responded that I could not own a chametz-eating animal during
Pesach.  So we gave our goldfish and food to a non-jewish neighbor for
the duration.  When that neighbor moved away, we found non-chametz food
for the fish, and kept them.
					BenZion Berliant


From: gamoran%<milcse@...> (Sam Gamoran)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 17:30:40 -0500
Subject: Re:  Rebuilding the 3rd Temple

Re: Rebuilding the 3rd Temple [Hayim Hendeles <hayim@...>]

>I had an interesting question about the construction of the 3rd Temple.

> Will it be permitted to install electricity and plumbing?

A number of years ago, someone started another English language daily paer
in Israel - The Nation.  It was really a decent paper - compared to the
far-left Jerusalem Post (of that time) it was a pleasure to read.
Alas, competition from the JP ran them out of business.  But, during
the short time they published - one Friday magizine supplement feature
story started speculating...

"The temple is to be rebuilt.  Will the Jerusalem municipality have
to approve the plans, issue a building permit?  Where will they put
the parking lot for all the worshippers?  The animal stockyards?
(After all, the Old City is pretty crowded)."

A few phone calls to the relevant bureaucracies in the city showed that
although the official party line is "May the Temple be Rebuilt Speedily
in our Day," in no way is the city of Jerusalem ready to begin.

I guess, if the Moshiach suddenly arrives, one of his miraculous wonders
will be the answers to all such questions.


End of Volume 11 Issue 77