Volume 11 Number 79
                       Produced: Sun Feb 13  8:04:00 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Eli Turkel]
Bracha after Megilla
         [Elliot Lasson]
Candy and Davening
         [Leah S. Reingold]
Massorah of Pronounciation
         [Rabbi Freundel]
Mental Illness
         [Saul Djanogly]
         [Mechael Kanovsky]
Rov vs, Rav
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Schindlers List
         [Motty Hasofer]
Singing During Davening
         [Warren Burstein]
Yeasher Koach
         [Jay Denkberg]
Yichud for a Convert and Daughter
         [Rabbi Freundel]


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 15:51:43 -0500
Subject: Accents                

     Jeremy Schiff writes

> But in davvening, and particularly in kriyyat shema and other
> obligations where there is a duty to get the words right, accenting the
> wrong syllable is simply wrong. Though I am loathe to say it, probably a
> sizeable number of "Western" Jews do not fulfil the obligation of
> kriyyat shema because they pronounce every second word wrong (leOLam,
> VAed, veahAVta, leVAVecha, NAFshecha....

     I think this is going overboard. I know of no posek who disqualifies
the reading of shma in the "wrong accent on a syllable". Most of the
discussion is on sephard vs ashkenaz. Rav Kook said one should use the
accent of his ancestors. Rav Moshe Feinstein says that any 
pronunciation used by a large group is acceptable. Rav Zvi Pesach Frank
objects strongly to the hasidic accent. In any case none of these claim
that one has not fulfilled his obligation because of accenting the wrong
syllable. Rav Yehudah haNasi claimed that Rav Hiyya could not say the
priestly blessing because he didn't distinguish between "heh" and "chet"
he never said that Rav Hiyya could not fulfil his obligation of shma.

      Moshe Bernstein  mentions that he tells his aramaic students to
learn Gemara the way their rebbeim do. I remember hearing a similar story
about Rav Dovid Zvi Hoffmann who would become upset at students who
used the "proper" pronunciation instead of the "traditional" one. Even
though Rav Hoffmann did research in this field he felt that the students were
trying to show off rather than truly improve their Torah scholarship.

Eli Turkel


From: <Elliot_David_Lasson@...> (Elliot Lasson)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 00:25:27 -0500
Subject: Bracha after Megilla

This question relates to the Birchot Megilla.  There is a Halacha (see
Shulchan Aruch and Kitzur) that if one does not have a minyan (quorum),
only the first three brachot are recited.  However, the bracha after the
Megilla ("harav et riveinu") is not recited.  My question is, why not?
Someone proposed the answer that it a bracha of "shevach v'hoda'ah" and
is only recited in a tzibbur.  He said it is similar to birchat hagomel,
which requires a minyan.  However, it would seem to me that the second
bracha of "she'asah nissim" is also a bracha of "shevach v'hoda'ah" [as
opposed to the bracha on the actual mitzva of reading the Megilla (what
type of bracha is shehechiyanu? it may be different at least before the
daytime reading, when it covers all of the mitzvot hayom)].  If one
takes a look at the Be'ur Halacha in the Mishna Berura, he comments that
these two brachot (i.e., "harav et riveinu" and "she'asah nissim") are
analogous, albeit in a different context.

Elliot D. Lasson
14801 W. Lincoln, #104
Oak Park, MI 48237-1210


From: <leah@...> (Leah S. Reingold)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 00:25:58 -0500
Subject: Candy and Davening

A recent M.J posting described a Kew Garden Hills man who rewarded
children with candy for davening with proper decorum.  I think that such
a practice is self-defeating and inappropriate.

First, if a child is quiet or says, "Amen," because he or she is
thinking about getting some candy after shul, then that child has not
developed any sort of concentration or religious inspiration in
davening; he or she is just doing a trick to get a reward, like a puppy.

Second, rewarding children for appropriate behavior teaches them only
that they deserve to get something for acting in the right way.  I would
hope that parents could teach their children that values and manners are
important in their own right, and not as a means to get goodies.

Third, using candy as a reward for anything encourages harmful attitudes
toward food and eating.  Studies have shown that obesity, anorexia, and
other food- related problems are exacerbated by parents or teachers who
use sweets as a system of rewards.

If my children were participating in such an arrangement, I would be
very upset, and I would not allow them to eat the candy 'earned' in such
a way.

Leah S. Reingold


From: <dialectic@...> (Rabbi Freundel)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 11:38:40 EST
Subject: Re: Massorah of Pronounciation

Jeremy Schiff and Eric Kerbel both write of a Massorah of pronounciation.
There is no such Masorah. There are grammatical rules. Occassionally there is
a massorah in Tanach to go against the grammatical rule in a particular
instance. (sort of a dikduk kri uchtiv). People need to stop raising
everything to the inviolate MASORAH.
The pronunciation often affects the meaning LAchem is not laCHEM, SHAvah is
not shaVAH and so on.
Many teshuvot have been written all agreeing with Magen Avraham that one who
knows the proper pronunciation must use it and some take this to mean that
one is required to learn it.

A note to Marc Warren:
Yom in Biblical hebrew means Period or better a clearly defined era of Time.
There are many examples. Check a concordance. This translation solves all the
Genesis vs. scientific chronology problems without quantum mechanics and in
logic simpler is better 


From: <saul@...> (Saul Djanogly)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 94 16:11:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Mental Illness

Has anyone come across sources in Chazal that deal with the problem of 
depression and its treatment?
The earliest source I've come across is the Rambam in Peirush Hamishnayot
(from memory in Shmoneh Perakim) who refers to 'Marah Shechorah' lit.
black bile. He recommends pleasing surroundings, parks, gardens as being of 
therapeutic value.
I have found no mention of depression in the writings of the Baalei Mussar,
who were intuitive masters of psychology but a great deal about Gaavah(pride).
It seems that nobody in the Lithuanian/Yeshiva world suffered from low self-
In contrast, my impression is that Sifrei Chassidut ,in particular those of
Breslov do deal at length with the problem of Yiush(despair).
Is there a psychological divide (amongst the many others) between Chassidim
and Mitnagdim?!

Any insights on this whole area most gratefully received.

saul djanogly


From: <KANOVSKY@...> (Mechael Kanovsky)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 00:25:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Pronounciations

	The shul that I attend has an excelent baal koreh for shacharit
but for the shabat mincha reading a kid who was just bar-mitzva'ed does
it. He apparently learned from a chasidic jew how to read from the
torah.  Every time that there is a shoorook (the vav with a dot in the
middle) he pronounces it like a chirik (i.e. ee like cheese). This way a
who (heh vav alef) becomes a he (heh yud alef), "veyikchu li trumah"
becomes "veyikchee li treemah" etc. Of course his emPHAsis is on the
wrong syLAble.  In this case I realy think that I have to hear it again
somewhere else.  mechael kanovsky


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 00:25:55 -0500
Subject: Rov vs, Rav

Personally, I use "Rov" for Reb Yoshe Ber Soloveichik zt"l to make
the accent distinct from that of "Rav", which, as most Israelis will
know, is often used in the context of "Maran HaRav" for Rav Kook zt"l.

[But as one other poster mentioned here, in general on the list it is
prefered if one writes out exactly whom one is refering to, so I and the
other readers do not have to guess. This is not a comment directed at
Reb Yosef, rather he just gave me a convienient hook to say this to all
of us, myself included. Mod.]


From: Motty Hasofer <mottyh@...>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 94 09:57:31 -0500
Subject: Schindlers List

I was recently asked an interesting question of which i don't know the
answer, maybe some of the subscribers to this list can be of assistance.

In the true story of Schindlers List, there had to be a selection of
Jews who were to survive while others were to be doomed. This was also a
regular occurrence in both Ghetto's and concentration camps Rachmana

Question: How does Halacha view making such a choice, do we say that we
are able to choose because we are saving some lives - Pikuach
Nefesh,(Danger to life) Pidyon Shvuim,(Saving captives) etc. or, do we say
that we are sending those, not selected for life, to death and therefore it
is tantamount to murdering them? 
Can we allow a Jew to make such a choice or can a non-Jew be permitted to 
do so?

Kol Tuv,
Motty Hasofer
Jewish Singles Services.  Working Group On Intermarriage.
159 Orrong Rd. East St. Kilda Victoria Australia.
Phone 61-3-5282216  Fax 61-3-5238235.


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 09:33:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Singing During Davening

Harry Weiss writes:

>What I dislike immensely is the lengthy cantorial solos.  There is
>nothing more frustrating than a 30 minute Hashkivenu on Friday nights.

I'd like to suggest that there is something more frustrating - a 30
minute (while this might not be what the clock says, it's what it
feels like) Kedusha.  If I have to listen to overblown hazzanut, I'd
rather be sitting down than standing with my feet together.

 |warren@      But the cabbie
/ nysernet.org is not all that ***.


From: <JDENKBERG@...> (Jay Denkberg)
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 01:13:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Yeasher Koach

I believe the source for the phrase is mentioned in Gemara Shabbas (87a)
It states that Moshe did three things on his own that Hashem agreed with
him. One of them being that Moshe broke the luchos (tablets).  Raysh
Lakesh learns that Hashem said to Moshe "yeasher Kochacha she'sheebarta"
Soncino translates this as "All strength to thee that thou breakest it".

	Jay Denkberg


From: <dialectic@...> (Rabbi Freundel)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 17:46:58 EST
Subject: Re: Yichud for a Convert and Daughter

Immanuel M. O'levy asks about Yichud for a convert and daughter.
We pasken based on Rambam that kibbud 'av va'em at least in some respects
remain an obligation for converts to their parents. On this basis we allow
gentile parents to walk down at weddings.

The Rav [Rabbi Soloveichik - Mod.] allowed Yichud between Adoptive
father and step-daughter as the relationship is one of father-daughter
and the usual inhibitions will apply.  This should be sufficient to
solve the problem

The [Lubavitcher - Mod.] Rebbe has prohibited Yichud in adoption cases.
For Lubavitchers this is then a much more difficult problem.


End of Volume 11 Issue 79