Volume 11 Number 82
                       Produced: Tue Feb 15  7:25:20 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Candy and Davening
         [Jan David Meisler]
Candy for Davening
         [Harry Weiss]
Convert's parents at weddings
         [Gerald Sacks]
Frozen Wine
         [David Sherman]
Gentiles in Shul
         [Benzion Dickman]
Kotzker Rebbe
         [Chaim Schild]
         [Jonathan Goldstein]
         [Nadine Bonner]
Schindler's list
         [Yacov Barber]
Sources for portable mechitza
         [Joyce Nachimson]
Women Rabbis
         [Ari Ferziger]
Yachad and Frozen Wine
         [Shayndee and Elliot Lasson]


From: Jan David Meisler <jm8o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 12:19:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Candy and Davening

Recently a reader of mail Jewish had a problem with the idea of giving
out candy to children for behaving properly in davening.  There were
three reasons given.  As to the reason that giving candy as a reward
excerbates obesity/anorexia/etc., I have to answer.  The other two
problems though were that values should be taught as positive things on
their own, not as a means to "getting goodies".  Also, the children are
then just being "trained" to do the right thing, as dogs are trained.  
To answer these two points, I would like to ask a question.  Do we not
have the idea in Judaism of doing something sh'lo lishma (for the wrong
purpose) will bring a person to doing something lishma (for the right
purpose)?  In fact, the example that I heard used for this from Rav
Nachman Bulman was the case of a child that didn't want to learn Torah. 
At first, the child is given a few nuts when he learns a little bit of
Torah.  However, after a while this is no longer an incentive to the
children, and so a greater reward is given, maybe a pair of shoes.  And
on it goes, increasing the "rewards" for learning.  Eventually, the
child will come to realize that learning is its own reward.  Similarly
with other things, such as sitting quietly in shul.  I don't see a
problem with this kind of a reward.  And if candy is a problem, there
are other treats that could be replaced instead of candy.



From: <harry.weiss@...> (Harry Weiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:38:02 
Subject: Candy for Davening

Leah Reingold discusses the rewarding of children with candy for
proper decorum during davening.  She referred to such as practice
as "self-defeating and inappropriate."   According to Pirkei Avot
the goal of every Jew is to do all of the Mitzvot Lishma (for their
own sake).  Doing a Mitzvah out of fear of punishment or hopes of
reward are of a lesser level, but still praiseworthy.  Doing a
mitzvah not for its own sake will lead to doing a mitzvah for its
own sake.  The reward and punishment is referring to that from
Hashem.  In the case of small children who have not yet learned to
do a Mitzvah for its own sake and cannot fully comprehend the
rewards and punishment from Hashem a reward they can understand is

I agree with Leah wholeheartedly regarding the use of candy or
other junk food for a reward.  A friend of mine (Charlie Nadler)
mentioned that when he visited his son and grandchildren in Crown
Heights they received points for a reward.  These points could
later be redeemed at a Jewish books store.  There are other non
food items that could be used.  (One must be careful that the
children will  not bring the items home on Shabbat in areas without
an Eruv.)  Reward and punishment has always been a standard tool in
teaching children proper behavior.



From: Gerald Sacks <sacks@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:10:42 -0500
Subject: Convert's parents at weddings

Rabbi Freundel writes that we allow a convert's parents to walk their
child down at weddings.  I recently attended a wedding involving a
convert whose parents were explicitly not allowed to walk her down.  The
mesader kiddushin was a well-known rosh yeshiva.

The kallah was walked down by a couple who had been instrumental in her
conversion.  Her parents then walked towards the chupah from a different
direction, and did not stand under the chupah.  The mother in this case
is an Evangelical Christian.


From: <dave@...> (David Sherman)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:09:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Frozen Wine

Along the same lines, is there a problem with making hamotzi
on Shabbos with two loaves of chala, of which one is frozen?


From: <bnzi@...> (Benzion Dickman)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:10:24 -0500
Subject: Gentiles in Shul

In vol 11,#80, Michael Rosenberg asked:

>What does it mean that all of a sudden _non-Jews_ want to
>come closer to Yiddishkeit while non-affiliated and assimilated Jews
>stay away?

The Kabbalists said that our diaspora was meant (among other purposes)
to draw to Torah those souls of the Gentiles who possessed sparks of
kedusha [sanctity].  Not that we were meant to proselytize, but that our
example of being a goy kadosh v'mamlekhet kohanim [ a sanctified people
and nations of priests ] would by itself increase respect for G_d and
Torah among the Gentiles.  And (IMHO) even if they don't become Jewish,
but become kosher b'nei Noah, it is very good for them, for us, and for
the honor of the Torah.


From: SCHILD%<GAIA@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:10:36 -0500
Subject: Kotzker Rebbe

A wide spectrum of people quote the Kotzker Rebbe z"l in their writings
etc. Is there any in-print sefarim with his writings on the parasha, etc.?



From: <Jonathan.Goldstein@...> (Jonathan Goldstein)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:11:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Osnat

In Volume 11 Number 76 Harry Weiss (<harry.weiss@...>) writes:

> Michael Shimshoni questions the opinion of Osnat being Dinah's daughter
> fathered by Shem and wanted the sources.  The opinion that Osnat was
> Dinah's daughter holds that she was fathered by Shcem as a result of the
> rape and not Shem.

I originally erroneously posted the opinion that Dina was fathered by Shem.
Thanks Michael for your correction.

Jonathan Goldstein       <Jonathan.Goldstein@...>       +61 2 339 3677


From: <n.bonner@...> (Nadine Bonner)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:11:06 -0500
Subject: Ostriches

  A writer I know has asked me if ostriches are considered kosher.  She is
writing a novel and somehow this enters into the story.  I remember reading
something in the Jerusalem Post about two guys who wanted to promote ostrich
farming in Israel, but there was a question about the kashrut.  I can't
remember how it was resolved.  Anyone know?

  Nadine Bonner


From: <barbery@...> (Yacov Barber)
Date: Tue, Feb 15 14:22:11 1994
Subject: Schindler's list

>In the true story of Schindlers List, there had to be a selection of
>Jews who were to survive while others were to be doomed. This was also a
>regular occurrence in both Ghetto's and concentration camps Rachmana
>Question: How does Halacha view making such a choice, do we say that we
>are able to choose because we are saving some lives - Pikuach
>Nefesh,(Danger to life) Pidyon Shvuim,(Saving captives) etc. or, do we say
>that we are sending those, not selected for life, to death and therefore it
>is tantamount to murdering them? 
>Can we allow a Jew to make such a choice or can a non-Jew be permitted to 
>do so?

 This question is discussed in Shalos Utshuvos MiMamakim by Rabbi E. Oshry,
(I haven't seen the Tshuvoh). In the abridged English version (q. 8) he
writes that both the heads of the community and individuals are permitted
to do what ever they can to save lives, even though as a result it will
cause the death of others. 
                                Yacov Barber
Rabbi Yacov Barber
South Caulfield Hebrew Congregation
Phone: +613 576 9225 - Fax: +613 528 5980


From: <joyce@...> (Joyce Nachimson)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 11:49:10 EST
Subject: Sources for portable mechitza

Does anyone know of portable mechitzas that are available for loan
or rental? 

As has been previously noted on this mailing list, the Young Israel
of Brookline's building was destroyed by a fire last month.  We're
currently holding Shabbat Morning services in a nearby school
auditorium.  We've been using a portable mechitza that we'd borrowed
from another local congregation, but they need it back for Shabbat,
Parshat Ki Tissa, Feb. 25-26.  We're planning to have one built for
the duration of our stay at the school, but it would be much easier if
we didn't have to rush to get it done in less than two weeks.

If anyone has any ideas on sources for a portable mechitza, please 
contact me.  I'd imagine that anywhere in the greater New York or New
England area would be feasable to transport it from.  Thanks in advance
for any suggestions.

Joyce Nachimson		phone: (617)232-7451


From: <msf@...> (Ari Ferziger)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:10:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Women Rabbis

Between articles in MOMENT Magazine and applications to RIETS, the issue of
"Women Rabbis" is in the news. So what issues are involved: HALACHICALLY
(most importantly)? sociologically? historically? philosophically?
Sources are appreciated.


From: <Elliot_David_Lasson@...> (Shayndee and Elliot Lasson)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 06:10:56 -0500
Subject: Yachad and Frozen Wine

Jay Denkberg's description of the NCSY program, YACHAD, was slightly off
the mark.  YACHAD caters to teenagers who are "developmentally
disabled", rather than "mentally ill" (and I'm not just saying this to
be politically correct).  The term "mentally ill" has a slightly
different (and more severe) connotation than "developmentally disabled".
YACHAD caters to teens with a variety of problems including autism,
severe learning disability, and Down Syndrome.

Shayndee Lasson, Detroit area YACHAD coordinator

Regarding frozen wine, Aryeh Blaut askes about the Halachic feasability.
IMHO, it would not be permitted for things such as Arba Kosot or Kiddush
because it is not in a physical state in which one could drink a revi'it
or "maleh lugmav" in a short period of time.  I think that this would
also be the case for hot coffee (potentially used as "chamar medina",
where wine is not possible), which could not be consumed in an
expeditious fashion.  I guess one must clarify what "frozen" wine means.
Is it frozen solid, or is it a "wine slurpee" (I would have trouble
believing the average person could drink even the latter in such an
expeditios manner).

Elliot D. Lasson, Ph.D.
Oak Park, MI


End of Volume 11 Issue 82