Volume 12 Number 8
                       Produced: Tue Mar  8  1:12:23 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bailey's_Irish Cream
         [Stephen Phillips]
Beer -- is it kosher
         [Nadine Bonner]
Beer -- is it kosher?
         [Stephen Phillips]
Hagadah  Issue
         [Avi Bloch]
Kosher for Pesach Oil (3)
         [Stephen Phillips, Nadine Bonner, Paul Wachtel]
New missionary argument
         [Shalom Carmy]
Oat matzot
         [Gedalyah Berger]
Women and Time Dependent Mitzvot (2)
         [Esther R Posen, Bob Smith]
Yeshiva programs
         [Percy Mett]
Yeshivot in Israel
         [Esther R Posen]


From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:13:00 -0500
Subject: Bailey's_Irish Cream

As far as I know (and I believe the London Beth Din Kashrus List
confirms this) Bailey's Irish Cream is NOT kosher.

Stephen Phillips


From: <n.bonner@...> (Nadine Bonner)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:10:16 -0500
Subject: Beer -- is it kosher

  About three years ago, this issue was addressed in a Lubavich
newspaper in Boston.  The article stated that all domestic beer was
produced using no trefy ingredients and totally sanitary, uncontaminated
conditions.  Therefore the author (I don't remember his name, but he was
a Lubavich rabbi) stated that all domestic beer can be considered kosher
and does not require a hechshar.  Coors beer, however, requested OU
certification last year, and is currently under OU hechshar.  However
with regards to taste, I cannot recommend it myself.
  Nadine Bonner

From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Beer -- is it kosher?

> From: Konstantin (Yehuda) Weiner <weiner@...>

> My understanding was that all foods (and drinks) are presumed to be 
> non-kosher unless explicitly testified to the contrary by some trusworthy 
> person or organization. [Except for, maybe, foods that cannot be suspected 
> of being TREIF by nature of their preparation and component ingredients.]
> Does anyone know what's deal with beer? [Most of] it does not have any 
> HEKHSHER, but on the other hand it seems to be widely acceptable as 
> KOSHER drink. Any helpfull comments and/or suggestions are very welcome!

I believe beer contains an ingredient called Isinglass (sp?) which is
of animal origin, but the amount involved is so small as to be
considered "Botul Beshishim" [nullified because the amount is less
than one sixtieth]. As far as I know, all beers are considered
kosher. The only ones I have seen with a Hechsher are those made in

Stephen Phillips


From: <avi@...> (Avi Bloch)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:11:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Hagadah  Issue

Well, over a week has passed and I have only received one contribution
and no questions, which leaves me wondering if the Hagadah is
self-explanatory or everyone feels to humble to contribute.

Well since no one else has offered any questions, here's a short list of
my own (some of which I jhave answers to, but would like to hear some
new ones):

- What is the meaning of the "Kadesh Urchatz, etc." [Benediction, and
Washing, etc.] at the beginning of the Hagadah? Is it just a table of
contents or does it have some deeper meaning?

- What do you all use for "Karpas" [usually translated as green
vegetables] and why?

- Why do we say the "ma nishtana" [otherwise known as the 4 questions]?
Please take into account that it is said even if there are no children

- Could someone please tell me how if Hashem would have brought us to
Har Sinai and not given us the Torah, we would have been satisfied?

- Why is Hallel split; the first 2 sections in Magid and the rest after
Birkat Hamazon [Grace after meal]?

- How can we use Rommaine (sp?) lettuce as marror? It tastes great!

Well thats all for starters. Lets start hearing from all of you out there.

Kol Tuv
Avi Bloch
Hagadah Issue Editor (HIE)


From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher for Pesach Oil

The Minhag [custom] in Yerushalayim is to use only olive oil on Pesach,
so I guess that it can be obtained as "Kosher LePesach".  Possibly
cottonseed oil is much cheaper and easier to use than olive oil.

Stephen Phillips

From: <n.bonner@...> (Nadine Bonner)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:10:38 -0500
Subject: Kosher for Pesach Oil

  In response to Daniel Geretz question about olive oil, it is certainly
acceptable for passover and available with a hechshar.  However most olive
oil has a strong, unique flavor and odor.  This makes it appropriate for
salad dressing or sauteing vegetables, but totally unsuitable for baking
cakes or sweet pesach kugels.  If you check any recipe for Pesach cakes, you
will see they require a lot of oil.  Olive oil is also double the price of
cottonseed oil, which makes a difference if you have a large family and do a
lot of cooking.   I think I used a gallon of oil last year.

From: Paul Wachtel <pwachtel@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher for Pesach Oil

Daniel Geretz inquired about Kosher L'Pesach olive oil.  It is readily
available in kosher food stores in the NY area. 
It is not used more widely for two simple reasons: a) olive oil is generally
more (much) more expensive than the commonly used vegetable cooking oils (and
this has nothing to do with Kashrut or Pesach) and b) olive oil imparts a
distinct taste when used in cooking which common vegetable oils do not
(chocoalte brownies with a tinge of olive flavoring may not go over well on
Pesach or any other time). 
Paul Wachtel


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 13:25:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: New missionary argument

A missionary I met on the subway this morning suggested that, while JC 
did not abrogate the Law, this fellow "Schneerson" did. That is because 
he went to the cemetery where he communed with his dead father-in-law, 
thus violating Dvarim 18.

Forewarned is forearmed.


From: Gedalyah Berger <gberger@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:11:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Oat matzot

This is not, of course, a psak, but people should at least be aware that 
a number of modern poskim feel that oats are not really one of the 
"chameshat haminim" (the five types of grain according to the halachah), 
and that therefore one is not yotze by eating oat matzah.

Gedalyah Berger
Yeshiva College / RIETS


From: <eposen@...> (Esther R Posen)
Date: 7 Mar 94 16:00:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Women and Time Dependent Mitzvot

Women and Time Dependent Mitzvot

I would just be curious as to an explanation of women's exemption from some 
time dependent mitzvot that is not/would not be insulting to a "modern" 
women's intelligence.  Clearly, halacha, unlike our contemporary society, does 
not profess to treat men and women equally.  (Of course whatever the "rules" 
of contemporary society are, the realities may be quite different.)

I, personally, have always been happiest with a straight forward explanation 
of "yes, we believe in separate and not even equal" status viv a vis men and 
women in Judiasm.  It may not be heartwarming but I find it more honest than 
the long winded explanations that describe why every orthodox male thanks g-d 
every day that he was not born a woman.  

Esther Posen

From: Bob Smith <bob_smith@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:09:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Women and Time Dependent Mitzvot

Re: Gavrie Philipson :Women and time-dependent Mitzvot

You raise an interesting issue that we have the mitzvot in order to
purify ourselves - bring our souls to a higher spiritual level.  It it
found throughout Chaza"l, that a women's neshamah is of much higher
origin than a man's, one reason for that being that the man was created
from earth, but the woman from the man - the 'Nezer habri'ah'. This
mainly explains why men have the obligation to study Torah and women
don't - at least not to the same extention. Men need the Torah study in
order to raise their spiritual level, something the woman's spirit
doesn't need.

   The problem with this approach is that it no longer appears to be
valid.  Apparently, as the time from the revelation at Mt Sinai
continues to increase the "neshamah" of men and women appear to have
converged (Tonya Harding and Lorraine Bobbit are two recent examples
that come to mind).  Hence (according to Rabbi Meiselman in Jewish Woman
in Jewish Law) although it was once the ruling that "One who teaches his
daughter Torah is considered as if he had taught her 'tiflut' (i.e
trivial or perhaps immoral things)" it now appears to be held that
nowadays, because of the culture to which women are exposed. "one who
does not teach his daughter Torah leaves her prey to street culture and
 ...  it is not the teaching of Torah that teaches tiflut, immorality,
but rather the lack of such teaching."
   I would think that anyone who would open his or her eyes to the state
of American Judaism would have to ask why similar reasoning does not
apply to many of the other mitzvot to which women were previously
exempt. Every morning I put on my tsitsit and hope that as I spend the
day I will "be reminded of the mitzvot... and not be seduced by my heart
or lead astray by my eyes..."  I have faith that this is the case.
Unfortunately, the temptations that I face are faced by my wife and
daughters as well, and they need and deserve the strenghthening that can
come from tsisit and tefillin or am I missing something here?  Are these
prayers "magical incantations" that only work when men say them or
shouldn't we all, men and women alike, be meditating on these things as
we start off each day?


From: <P.Mett@...> (Percy Mett)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:12:48 -0500
Subject: Yeshiva programs

 Jeff Woolf <F12043@...> writes:

>Last year when Aryeh Frimer went on his tirade about Hebrew I jumped in
>to back him up and I want to do so sagain...The situation in One Year
>Programs for Americans has deteriorated beyond that which he describes:
>1) Most of the popular programs teach no Hebrew and isolate the students
>so that they only mingle with other Americans 2) There are fewer and
>fewer sections of the program which teach Love of the Land through tours
>3) The teachers tend to be rabidly (or moderately Anti-Zionist) 4) The
>students might as well be in New Jersey or Brooklyn in as boarding
>school arrangement for all that Eretz Yisrael and Medinat Yisrael impact
>upon them

I was not aware that the kdusha of Erets Yisroel is dependent on the amount
that Medinat yisreal impacts on you. As far as I can see, everyone in Erets
Yisroel has to be aware of terumos and maasros, and this year shmita too. I
shouldn't think that is much of an issue in New Jersey. More significantly,
ein toyro ketoyras erets yiroel, Torah just isn't the same anywhere else.
The mere fact of living in  Erets Yisroel is worthy. I do not know all that
many Americans, but I would not necessarily despise those wish to mingle
with them. Moreover, I don't see how anyone learning in yeshiva in Erets
Yisroel can fail to recoognise where they are.

>I feel that severe pressure must be exerted upon High School
>principals in the US to ONLY send students to Zionist, Hebrew speaking
>programs where mixing with Israelis AND Gemillut Hasadim through
>volunteer work with immigrants or needy is a portion thereof. Otherwise,
>all this phenomenon is is Camp Raughly 6,000 miles away.

Why? In what way does being on  a Zionist program make you a better Jew?
And do you really mean Hebrew speaking, or is that meant to be Ivrit
speaking? Do students go on yeshiva programs just so that they can learn
the language of Ben Yehuda?

Perhaps as a counter suggestion, those on yeshiva programmmes should
immerse themselves in the study of Torah, and engage in "volunteer work
with immigrants" on their return to New York.
Perets Mett


From: <eposen@...> (Esther R Posen)
Date: 7 Mar 94 16:17:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Yeshivot in Israel

I know of many men and women who have spent a year or more learning in
Israel.  The working knowledge of hebrew they come back with does not
seem to have any correlation to the yeshivot, colleges or seminaries
they attended.  It seems to correlate much more closely to where and
with whom they "hung out" and how willing they were to speak hebrew to
get around despite the fact that you can get around just as easily and
with a lot less embarressment speaking English.  Also, some people just
have a knack for languages.

Esther Posen


End of Volume 12 Issue 8