Volume 12 Number 14
                       Produced: Wed Mar  9 23:00:31 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aveilus on Non-Jewish Parents
         [Stephen Phillips]
Fast of the First Born
         [Susan Slusky]
Grammar Question
         [Michael Shimshoni]
meat & diary
         [Jack Reiner]
Mission Tortillas
         [Harry Weiss]
non-Jewish Parents
         [Jonathan Traum]
Shabat Qidoush
         [Joey Mosseri]
Tahanun on 3rd day Purim
         [Aleeza Esther Berger]
Temple Mount
         [Yisrael Medad]
Verse with all the Letters
         [Michael Broyde]
Violence and Peace
         [Matthew Ian Tigger Subotnick]


From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 19:47:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Aveilus on Non-Jewish Parents

> From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
> In a recent MJ Eitan Fiorino and Steven Phillips posted psakim
> concerning saying kaddish for non-Jewish parents and variations on
> this configuration. I would have posted this request privately to
> them, but I think more people than me (who, personally thinks this
> would make a great topic for a shiur, something which my line of
> "work" requires me to do :-) ) would appreciate chapter and verse
> citations on the topic, Thank you very much.

I'm sorry, I have no references that I can cite.
 I see now that there seems to be some confusion on the topic. What is
being discussed (as far as I am concerned, anyway) is a convert saying
Kaddish for a JEWISH parent only.

Stephen Phillips


From: <segs@...> (Susan Slusky)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 13:00:55 EST
Subject: Fast of the First Born

A question (set of questions) relevant to the upcoming holiday:

Who has to fast on the day before Pesach (two days before for this year)?
Are the rules the same as for pidyon haben? Does a C-section birth count?
Are both members of a first-born set of twins obligated, or just one? 
Do any interpretations include first-born women or is it always clear 
that only men are obligated?

-- Susan Slusky


From: Michael Shimshoni <MASH@...>
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 94 16:16:42 +0200
Subject: Re: Grammar Question

Finley Shapiro asked:

>In this past week's torah reading, Shemot (Exodus) chapter 35, verse 25
>has the word "va-ya-viy-u."  Why isn't it "va-ta-viy-u" as the implied
>subject of the verb in the Hebrew sentence seems to be "women" so that
>the verb should be feminine plural?  All of the English translations I
>checked clearly make "women" the subject of the verb.

May I start with  saying that I have no answer to  the question just a
couple of remarks.  In modern Hebrew *usage* it is quite common to use
for the future, second and third person feminine the masculine form as
was done in the above example.   I do not know if that  is an  ancient
custom.  Anyhow the  proper feminine form of  "va-ya-viy-u" would have
been "va-ta-ve-na".

Michael Shimshoni


From: Jack Reiner <jack@...>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 09:20:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: meat & diary

Shalom Y'all:

I have learned that one is prohibited from benefitting from meat and dairy.
To what extent does this prohibition of benefitting from meat and dairy apply?

For the sake of argument, let's take an [obviously non-kosher] fast-food

1)  Can one work as a food-preparer in a McDonald's, Burger King, etc.?

2)  Can one work as a cashier in a McDonald's?

3)  Can one work as a manager in a McDonald's?

4)  Can one own a McDonald's franchise?  Or be a part owner?

5)  Can one work for the McDonald's corporation in an overhead position,
    such as accountant, computer programmer, etc.?

6)  Can one work for a company that has the McDonald's Corportion as
    a client, such as advertiser, legal services, etc.?

7)  Can one own McDonald's stock?

8)  Can one own a mutual fund that _may_ own McDonald's stock?

9)  Can one live in a municipality that receives tax revenue from a
    McDonald's restuarent? 

None of the above is meant to imply anything wrong with McDonald's Corporation,
it is just an easily identifiable example.  Any non-kosher restuarent applies.

Kol Tuv,                                 | To do justly,                     |
Jack Reiner                              | To love mercy,                    |
<jack@...>                       | And to walk humbly with thy G-D   |
#include <standard_disclaimers.h>        |                       Micah 6:8   |


From: <harry.weiss@...> (Harry Weiss)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 16:09:32 
Subject: Mission Tortillas

I heard from somone who recently moved from San Diego that Mission
Tortillas were Kosher.  Is there anyone on MJ from the San Diego area
that has more information?



From: <traum@...> (Jonathan Traum)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 15:32:28 -0500
Subject: non-Jewish Parents

This discussion so far has involved only the case of a non-Jew who
converts. I would like to discuss the case of a Jew, born to a Jewish
mother and a non-Jewish father.

Eitan Fiorino wrote:
>R. Ovadia Yosef explicitly permits a convert to say kadish for his
>parents and calls such a practice "nachon."

And yet, recently a close friend of mine, whose mother is Jewish and whose
father was not, lost her father (her parents had been divorced for some
time, and she was not very close to her father). Both she and her sister
asked their respective LOR's whether they should sit shiva or say kaddish.
The answer from both rabbis (one was Ashkenazi, and one was Lubavitch) was

Furthermore, at my friend's wedding, they used her mother's name on the
ketubah (as in Rivka bat Sarah). The rabbi considered using "bat Avraham
Avinu" (or simply "bat Avraham" to avoid possible confusion and/or
embarrasment) but eventually decided not to.

I'm not sure by what means the Rabbis arrived at their decisions, though I
could probably find out. But does anyone care to discuss these issues?

Jonathan Traum (<jont@...> or traum@bronze.lcs.mit.edu)


From: <JMOSSERI@...> (Joey Mosseri)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 04:10:19 -0500
Subject: Shabat Qidoush

Back to the subject of Qidoush some people asked me to quote some specific
sources for my position. Well here goes:
This is what was written in SHALME SIBOUR by Rabbi Yisrael Ya'aqob Algazi
at the end of page 21b in the name of Rabbi M. Zakouto from a manuscript
responsa. Is it permissible to taste on Shabat between Yosser (Shahrit) and
Mousaf without Qidoush? It is very simply permissible  because this isn't
the time for the daytime Qidoush.
And so it was written in the book  'IQRE HADA"T (section 13 #3) in the name
of Igrot Harema"z and there he added that  a great rabbi of his generation
wrote to him saying that there are a multitude of sources that exempt you
from  Qidoush if you want to eat a little something between Shahrit and
Mousaf. The reasoning again being, since you are not allowed to establish a
meal (LIQBO'A  SE'OUDAH) between Shahrit and Mousaf you are not obligated to
say Qidoush. At that point he went on to bring an example from a certain
Rabbi A. Segal who did such an act.
An entire discussion on this subject is also written in the responsa YABI'A
OMER by  Rabbi 'Obadiah Yosef.(volume 5 , orah haim, section 22, no. 2).
Also see there that he brought the opinion of MAHARSHA"L  as being such and
also such was written in the sefer 'ATERET ZEQENIM.

I hope this helps to clarify the matter somewhat.



From: Aleeza Esther Berger <aeb21@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 18:26:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Tahanun on 3rd day Purim

Rabbi Karlinsky writes that it's not said in Jerusalem.
I was in New York, and attended one synagogue for Shacharit and a different
one for mincha.  One minyan said it, and the other didn't "because it's
still Purim in Jerusalem" (that was mincha).  What's the deal?

Aliza Berger


From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 20:47:22 -0500
Subject: Temple Mount

Gina Samestein in Vol  No 98 asked about the Mosque near the Kotel
and area of Kodesh HaKdashim and whether still holy without presence
of the Holy Ark:

a) well, now that the Israeli authorities are restricting the Jewish
presence at the Kotel because of threats from above, we can understand
the point made by the nationalist poet Uri Zvi Greenberg: "he who
controls the Temple Mount, controls Jerusalem; and he who controls
Jerusalem, controls Eretz Yisrael.

b) the overwhelming opinion is that the rock, over which is the Dome
of the Rock (not properly a mosque but a house for meditation and where
Moslem women pray during the overcrowding of Ramadan) is the Even Hashtiya
where the Kodesh Hakdashim was or, according to minority, where the
external Altar was.

c) the sanctity is ever-present due to the judgement of the Rambam: "even
in their destruction, they are holy for the second sanctification carries
on for all time".

Yisrael Medad


From: Michael Broyde <RELMB@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 21:34:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Verse with all the Letters

One of the writers proposed a biblical verse which contains all of the
letters in it.  IMHO it is very unwise (and violates halacha) to
intentionally type out a biblical verse on a peice of paper to test the
keyboard and then discard the paper.


From: Matthew Ian Tigger Subotnick <iggymoot@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:09:46 -0500
Subject: Violence and Peace

Just a brief note. I was just told today that my school will be hiring
armed security guards for Pesach this year as a result of the recent
violence in Israel and New York.

I remember being a kid at my hebrew day school when the school first got 
a security alarm after a rather nasty vandalism incident involving 
swastikas and damage to our ark and torah.

I think it's really important for the international Jewish community to 
work diligently and very hard at forstering a sense of peace and 
understanding between Jews and those of other faiths. For the first time 
in history, the Catholic Church has decided to recognize Israel, and to 
say that maybe Catholics shouldn't hate us anymore. This is a positive step.

As I see it, Yes, Eretz Yisroel is our homeland, a Jewish state, and it 
is important that this be preserved, but NOT at the expense of 
unnecessary vioence and bloodshed, and this is what is happening now.

If the leader of Israel could shake Arafat's hand in the spirit of peace, 
then maybe it's time to try and live beside our brothers and sisters, 
rather than fight.

I'm a young 22, and I know that when I have children, I want them to 
support Israel, be proud of their heritage and culture and people, and to 
not fear because they are Jewish. I believe that violence begets 
violence, and knowledge begets peace.

Anyway, best wishes,

Matthew Subotnick


Recent third place finisher in "The First Annual Worst Poem in Portland" 


End of Volume 12 Issue 14