Volume 12 Number 92
                       Produced: Fri Apr 29  9:20:52 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Basar BeChalav
         [Israel Botnick]
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Direction During Prayer
         [Aryeh Frimer]
Don't say "mitnagid" unless you mean it
         [David Charlap]
Gott fun Avrohom
         [Leonard Oppenheimer]
Jewish Calendars
         [Mitch Berger]
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
Lashon Hara
         [Aryeh Blaut]
Lchah Dodi
         [Seth Ness]
Peace With The Enemy
         [Yisrael Medad]
Primers on Judaism
         [Neil Edward Parks]
Traffic Laws
         [Eli Turkel]


From: <icb@...> (Israel Botnick)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 11:11:33 EDT
Subject: Basar BeChalav

Mitchell Schoen asked
>>Israel Botnick wrote (quoting the Rema):
>>If the milchig pot has not been used to cook milk in the last 24 hours,
>>then a parve food cooked in this pot can be eaten Together With meat.
  >I'm wondering why there should be almost ANY product marked DE (for
  >Dairy Equipment) in this case.  The equipment used for the run of
  >kosher-supervised product should simply be that which is started on a
  >Monday after a plant was idle on the weekend.  In practice, do kosher
  >supervision agencies avail themselves of the ben yomo "leniency"?  Or do
  >they mark all items produced on equipment that has also been used for
  >dairy any time in the past as "DE" even if the equipment has been left
  >idle for the prescribed period of time?

This is a very good question.
I am pretty sure that even if the equipment has been idle for 24 hrs, the
product is still marked as DE. This is because if it didn't have a DE, it
would present a problem for people who don't rely on Rav Moshe's leniency
to permit chalav stam. In general the OU relies on the leniency of chalav
stam, so chalav yisroel people know not to eat anything with a D or DE.
Since a product cooked in utensils that absorbed chalav stam (even if idle
for 24 hrs) isn't kosher for chalav yisroel people, (since chalav stam is
considered a non-kosher ingredient for machmirim on cholov stam) the DE
symbol is necessary to warn them not to eat this product.


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 01:21:31 -0400
Subject: Chumros

I gratefully note Ben Svetitsky's compliments to me in MJ 12:87, I just
would like to point out that I believe that at this point we can agree:
Nobody can accuse another of eating treif if he eats Non-Glatt with a
scrupulous Rabbi's hechsher, and nobody can accuse another of undue
severity if he does not want to eat that meat served at the
aformentioned person's house. People of goodwill will then simply
happily accomodate one another (just as if they had to deal with others'
special dietary needs), Shalom al Yisroel, and maybe Moshiach will come


From: Aryeh Frimer <F66235@...>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 01:21:36 -0400
Subject: Direction During Prayer

Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin Zatsa"L in "Edut le-Yisael" page 160 (reprinted
in Kitvei ha-Gria Henkin vol. 1) says that the Aron in the States should
face east. However if it doesn't - for whatever reason - he should face
the Aron Kodesh. He brings as a source Resp. Meishiv Davar (of the Neziv
vol. 1, no. 10). I would only like to note that in many Sefardic shuls
there were many aronot Kodesh on all sides of the shul; yet the
community always faced Jerusalem.


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 13:23:51 -0400
Subject: Don't say "mitnagid" unless you mean it

I've noticed a number of messages here that refer to people or
organizations as "mitnagdim".  I think this term is being used
improperly, and it is insulting to the people it is used on.

Contrary to what some usage would imply, a mitnagid is not simple a

Historically, the mitnagdim were Jews who were openly anti-Chasid.  They
would publicly ridicule Chassidim, and their rabbis, thinking that it
was an abomination to Judaism.

I do not think any of the people or organizations referred to here as
"mitnagdim" are anti-Chasid.  And as such, the term should not be used
for them.


From: <leo@...> (Leonard Oppenheimer)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 12:45:25 -0400
Subject: Gott fun Avrohom

Eli Turkel writes:

>      In response to a side remark by Marc Shaipro on the artscroll
> siddur.  My wife and daughters say Gott fun Avrohom though not identical
> to the version in artscroll. I am curious if other women say this also
> on motzei shabbat.

My father says this prayer, and I presume his father before him did.  He
once showed me the Siddur of Rav Yaakov Emden as a source for it.

Lenny Oppenheimer


From: <mberger@...> (Mitch Berger)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 09:18:23 -0400
Subject: Jewish Calendars

I have a PD calendar program "hebcal", from UseNet's comp.sources.misc.
It converts gregorian to halachic date for today, and for either one day
all the whole year you can get parshas hashavu'ah, yomim tovim, omer,
and personal reminders (e.g. birthdays, personal purim) transliterated
in your choice of Ashkenzi or Israeli.

Either way, it's written in C, so if you speak C you can get the
algorithm from that. It can be ftp-ed from:
	ftp.uu.net usenet/comp.sources.misc/volume39/hebcal/part01.Z

Or, if you speak emacs lisp, you can try the GNU standard emacs'
calendar program which, aside from knowing Gregorian and Halachic, also
does Mayan, Arabic, and French Standard. :-)

| Micha Berger       | (201) 916-0287 | On Torah, on worship, and |    |  |   |
| <mberger@...> |<- new address  |   on supporting kindness  |    |  |   |


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 00:49:28 -0400
Subject: Kedusha

In honor of Lag Ba'Omer I thought I would post a question that I hope
will lead to a new thread of conversation on MJ: What is Kedusha?

This is certainly a critical question for us, especially at this time of
year, as at Mt. Sinai we were charged to be "Mamleches Kohanim v'Goy
Kadosh", a "Nation of Priests, a Holy Nation", so this is our destiny -
we better know what it is! Kedusha is a recurring theme in the Torah and
Chazal, and I wager to say that it is the pinnacle of Jewish aspiration
and achievement.

Preliminary comments: In my line of work I speak a lot, and I like to
speak on this topic. I find often that even Orthodox Jews take a very
reductionist viewpoint on Kedusha, i.e., it is a status of separation
and mission. Many audiences become uncomfortable when I explain that in
my understanding our status as the Chosen People imparts us a uniquely
elevated and special status, with more sacred neshamos and a vastly
different - and superior - role versus the Gentiles in determining the
destiny of the Universe. Indeed, many people are not enthused when I
invoke the Ramban and Reb Chaim Volozhiner to explain how a mitzvah
impacts mystically on both the character and sanctity of an individual,
and, indeed that of the entire world.

I refrain for now from proposing my own expanded definition of Kedusha.
If this thread does develop I will be pleased, and certainly eager to
discuss same. And, if it doesn't, why bore everybody :-) ?


From: Aryeh Blaut <ny000592@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 02:54:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Lashon Hara

>From: <Michael.Rosenberg@...> (Michael Rosenberg)
>In discussing lashon ha ra with a friend on Shabbat, about one minute
>into the conversation he mentioned someone else at shul (in a negative
>light) and caught himself.  How do you Mail Jewish readers deal with
>this subject? How do you control a habit--discussing other people when

By "you Mail Jewish readers" do you mean on line or individually?

On line -- we just don't write about anyone else.

Individually, just don't speak about anybody.

Aryeh Blaut


From: Seth Ness <ness@...>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 13:20:06 -0400
Subject: Lchah Dodi

yisrael medad writes....

>In terms of 'direction', West is the preferred direction for
>example when turning to say the last verse of Friday night's
>L'Chah Dodi: _hashechina b'maa'rav_ (The Divine Presence is in
>the West.

  i was under the impression that we are greeting the 'sabbath queen' and
should turn to face the doors, which is where one usually enters the
synagogue from, not opposite the ark.

Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham


From: MEDAD%<ILNCRD@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 08:47 IST
Subject: Peace With The Enemy

Re posting in Vol 12 No 63 -

	A traditional Jewish approach to making peace with the
enemy is found in the Yerushalmi Talmud, Shvi'it, 6:

	The three 'protagamaot' (letters, missives) that Joshua
sent to the residents of Canaan -

he who desires to leave, let him leave;
he who desires to come to terms, let him come to terms;
he who wants to make war, let him fight.

Yisrael Medad


From: <aa640@...> (Neil Edward Parks)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 07:47:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Primers on Judaism

 >>         [Maidi Katz]
 >>Can anyone recommend a general book on "Judaism"/Jewish Law for a
 >>highly intelligent, very well secularly educated person with very
 >>little formal or informal Jewish education (i.e. only Sunday
 >>Hebrew school kind of thing.)  Nothing "Art Scroll like", nothing
 >>right wing and nothing too touchy-feely please.  Thanks.

I think you'll enjoy "Understanding Judaism:  The Basics of Deed
and Creed", by Rabbi Benjamin Blech.


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 12:15:20 +0300
Subject: Traffic Laws

     Eric Safern objects to some traffic and health regulations on the
grounds that they are sometimes used for revenue rather than for "social
benefit". While I agree with his observation nevertheless laws for
revenue are clearly within the venue of Dina Demalchuta. The Gemara
already mentions the difference between a "legitimate" tax revenue
measure and extortion. If a town council passes a law setting up a
"speed trap" I know of no way to determine if this is a legitmate source
of revenue or not.  I do however assume that any government does have a
right to set up a system of fines and that this is binding according to
Halacha even though the details of the fine system don't agree with
standard halacha (e.g. accident/purpose as mentioned by Safern).

      However, my main point was a question whether one is required by
Halachah to observe "legitimate" traffic laws. i.e. if an interstate has
a speed limit of 55 MPH can I decide that it is safe to drive faster and
can ignore (according to halachah) the speed limit. Similarly for other
regulations for the good of society and the environment.

p.s. There is a major discussion if Dina Demalchuta operates on a
biblical or rabbinic level. Hence the level of ones "sin" is debateable.

Eli Turkel


End of Volume 12 Issue 92