Volume 13 Number 13
                       Produced: Thu May 19  1:06:06 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Cholov Yisroel Lite!
         [Dan Goldish]
Dikduk chaverim
         [David Charlap]
Electricity and Shabbat
         [Shalom Krischer]
Fender Bender
         [Steven Friedell]
Haftorah from a klaf
         [Marc Meisler]
Hours of Creation
         [Fred Dweck]
Lecha Dodi
         [Daniel Pittinsky]
Lihyos bisimchah tamid
         [Neil Parks]
Mail Jewish hardcopy upload
         [Barry Friedman]
Significance of Millenia in Judaism
         [Joseph M. Winiarz]
Syrian Converts
         [Jules Reichel]
The OU and DE
         [Israel Botnick]
Three blessings and Seventy faces
         [Zev Itzkowitz]


From: Dan Goldish <GOLDISH@...>
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 08:33:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cholov Yisroel Lite!

Just a comment to lighten up the discussion of chumrot and kulot a bit
-- especially since Purim is months away!  :)

A reporter once asked a Jewish dairy farmer what was the key to his
enormous financial success.  He replied "The answer lies in what I feed
my cows."  The reporter inquired what the farmer fed his cows, and the
farmer replied "I feed my cows milk."  Puzzled, the reported asked how
the dairy farmer made a profit by feeding his cows milk.  The dairy
farmer smiled and answered, "Ah hah!  Ich gib zey cholov akum, v'ich
kreig foon zey cholov yisroel!!"  (...English translation will kill this
joke -- v'hameyven yaveen)


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 11:01:23 -0400
Subject: Dikduk chaverim

R. Shaya Karlinsky <msbillk@...> writes:
>     Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6 (learned the 6th Shabbat after Pesach, which
>comes out right before Shavuot) Mishna 7 lists the 48 things through which
>Torah is acquired.  Nos. 9, 10 and 11 are: B'Shimush Chachaim, b'dikduk
>chavierim, b'pilpul hatalmidim.  The Maharal explains how these work in the
>acquisition of Torah, transcendant Divine wisdom.

I noticed this typo.  While the intended word was "Dibuk chaverim", we
can still learn something from "dikduk chaverim" - if you hang around
with people that use proper language, you will grow into a good human
being, but if you hang around with people that use bad language, you
will descend down to their level.


From: Shalom Krischer <PGMSRK@...>
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 09:41:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Electricity and Shabbat

On Mon, 9 May 94 12:08:01 +0300 Eli Turkel said:

Thanks Eli!  I, personally, have always found this topic fascinating.

> ...                       Prof. Lev pointed out that one of the problems
>is that very few poskim really understand how modern devices work.  ....

A number of years ago, I happened to be in the Bet Medrash my brother
was learning in (I think for Hakofot, but who remembers?).  This Yeshiva
happened to be way to the "Right".  Anyway, one of the Bochurim was
asking for some sort of Psak about coffee urns.  Now, although I am not
qualified for making any sort of Psak, I do happen to know some minimal
physics.  The Rosh Yeshiva called me over, and starting grilling me as
to the design, construction, internals, etc. about urns in general, and
this one in particular.  This particular Rabbi went up quite a number of
notches in my mind, because he was trying to base his Psak on the "real"
coffee urn, as opposed to his conception of one.  In fact, I found out
later that his Psak would have been significantly different had he not
had a chance to speak to an "expert".  (Had my input not changed his
initial thoughts, I still would be respecting him more than most rabbis,
because of his desire to uderstand the reality of what he was being a
Posek about!)


From: Steven Friedell <friedell@...>
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 10:17:40 EDT
Subject: Fender Bender

	I think the basic rule in both the common law and the Halakha is
the same with regard to measuring damages--one calculates the difference
in the value of the thing before the injury and the value afterwards.
Shulhan Arukh 387, Responsa Rivash 506 (ceiling was in bad shape before
further damage).  Cf. Standard Oil Co. v. Southern Pacific Co. 268 U.S.
146 (1925).  When repairs can be made the calculation of damages can be
more complex.  At common law the estimated repair costs are a basis for
determining the loss of value, even if the repairs are not made.  This
would appear to be the rule in Jewish law as well.  See Shakh, H.M. 387.
If the repairs would enhance the value that the object had before the
injury, then the cost of the repairs will not always be considered the
amount of the loss.  See The Baltimore, 75 U.S. 377 (1869).  This would
appear to be the rule in Jewish law as well.  At the end of the
responsum 506, the Rivash wrote that if A damages a badly damaged
ceiling belonging to B, and the judges determine that the ceiling would
have lasted for a year or two, A is obligated to contribute to B the
value of a ceiling that would last for a year or two.
	I am troubled by the idea that a policy of insurance makes a
difference here.  If we are dealing here with loss insurance, such
policies require a claimant to be honest.  One can take out a policy
that provides for replacement of damaged parts with new parts.  I
believe that such provisions require an additional premium.  If one is
dealing with another person's liability insurer, then that company is
only obligated to pay the liability that its insured would have paid.

                         Steven F. Friedell 
      Rutgers Law School, Fifth & Penn Streets, Camden, NJ 08102
  Tel: 609-225-6366    fax: 609-225-6516     <friedell@...>


From: Marc Meisler <mmeisler@...>
Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 20:17:40 -0400
Subject: Haftorah from a klaf

Until a year ago I attended the same shul as Gerald Sacks where the
haftorah was always read from a klaf by someone who prepared it.  I
always felt it to be a big kibud (honor) to receive maftir even though
someone else read the haftorah.  In fact it made it easier to not have
to prepare the haftorah while the Torah reading was going on which I
would have had to do if I had to read the haftorah from a Chumash.

Marc Meisler                   1001 Spring St., Apt. 423    
<mmeisler@...>           Silver Spring, MD  20910


From: Fred Dweck <71214.3575@...>
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 02:12:05 -0400
Subject: Hours of Creation

We know from the Midrash (I don't remember which one) that Adam was born
on the 4th hour of the sixth day, sinned on the 5th hour and repented on
the 6th hour.  We also know from Kabbalah (Zohar, The Ari Z"L, etc.)
that creation was finished on the 5th hour of the day (as opposed to the
night) and the holiness of Shabbat began to shine through.

Does anyone know of any writings/commentaries of what happened in
certain hours of any other day? IE: What hour of the first day did
Hashem create light?

Fred E. Dweck 


From: Daniel Pittinsky <qgs4619@...>
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 15:45:35 EDT
Subject: Lecha Dodi

Re Lchau Dodi, we face the setting sun (west).
Since shuls in North America face east, we therfore turn around and face
the back. Facing the setting sun originated in Tzfat at the time when 
Lchau Dodi was first written.
Dan Pittinsky


From: <aa640@...> (Neil Parks)
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 01:54:12 -0400
Subject: Lihyos bisimchah tamid

>For the past decade or so, the song has been around
>	Mitzvah gedolah lihyos bisimchah tamid
>	It is a great mitzvah to be constantly happy
>I believe the words are by R. Nachman of Breslov. Since then I've bought
>children's tapes containing songs with similar themes.
>Simple as this thought seems, I don't understand it. Is R. Nachman asking me
>to be happy during the omer, the three weeks, tish`a bi'av, or when I see
>someone in pain?

It's probably based on the verse in Psalm 100 which is part of the
Shacharis on most weekdays: "Ivdu es Ha-Shem b'simcha; bo-u lefonov
bi-r'nana." (Philip Birnbaum's translation: "Serve the L-rd with joy; come
before him with singing.")

Certainly life has its times of grief and mourning as well as its times of
joy and happiness.  But the time from Pesach to Lag B'Omer is only one
month.  Tisha b'av is only one day.  That's only a small percentage of a
year full of (approx) 365 days.

We have to recognize that everything that happens in the world happens by
the decree of Ha-Shem, and therefore we should strive to be happy most of
the time. 

NEIL EDWARD PARKS       >INTERNET: <aa640@...>  OR
(Fidonet) 157/200 (PC Ohio)  
(PC Relay/RIME)  ->1869<-  in Common conf.  (PC Ohio)


From: Barry Friedman <friedman@...>
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 01:52:25 -0400 
Subject: Mail Jewish hardcopy upload  

Greetings, shalom aleichem.

This is the first posting of volume 13; issues 1-7 are 
in the file: mj13.1-7.ps.Z 
and can be retrieved by anon. ftp from: nysernet.org 
in the "israel/lists/mail-jewish/Postscript/Hardcopy/vol13" directory.
[BNR readers will also find it on nmerh207 in "pub/mj". Within the bnr
domain, direct transfer can be arranged via 'edna'.]

[For those unfamiliar with what Barry is doing, he has been putting
together a Postscript version of groups of issues, usually about 8-10
issues at a time, with a nice index of the grouping. The files are all
available in the ftp location mentioned above. Mod.]

I have spell-checked the copy but would appreciate any comments regarding
the desirability of enforcing a consistent orthography on non-english words.

[A good point, and one that I am planning to bring up in an
Administrivia posting, as soon as I work off some of this backlog. Mod.]

If anyone would care to comment on the list (or privately) as to the value
of producing the hard copy edition, I would be interested.

[I for one, find it very nice and usefull. I print out the hardcopy
version to bring home for my wife to read, as well as take a copy to a
local Rosh Yeshiva whose shiur I attend. An interesting side note on
that, for the last several years, I'm pretty sure that all the people
who have attended that shiur have been mail-jewish readers. Mod]

Gut Shabbos,
"Mitzvah gedolah lihyos bisimchah tamid"
Barry Friedman 


From: Joseph M. Winiarz <100274.1301@...>
Date: 13 May 94 08:16:36 EDT
Subject: Significance of Millenia in Judaism

Regarding Etan Diamond's query on the significance of millenia in
Judaism, see Ramban al Hatorah Genesis 2:3 D"H "asher barah Elo-him
laasot" were this point is discussed at some length.  I'm under the
impression that there are many other sources for this but this is one
that I know of off hand.


From: <JPREICHEL@...> (Jules Reichel)
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 14:24:55 -0400
Subject: Syrian Converts

Could Moshe Shamah clarify one aspect of his story about the 1935 takana
about acceptance of converts in the Syrian community? You tell in some
detail the interesting story of how you ran to Rabbi Kassin and then
pursued him even further to get a specific ruling on whether a person
was a "righteous convert" or not. Is it the view in the Syrian community
that an Ashkenazi conversion is uncertain? Or, is the view that a
Sephardic Rabbi must validate the righteousness of any convert based on
his personal knowledge? Which error were you trying to avoid: false
acceptance based on Askenazic practice, or false acceptance based on not
knowing intimate details of the converts life?  


From: <icb@...> (Israel Botnick)
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 13:14:10 EDT
Subject: The OU and DE

Thanks to Gerald Sacks for pointing out that the OU does not
make use of the DE symbol. I had seen the DE symbol a few times
and assumed that all the kashrus organizations were using it.
In a previous posting I wrote that the OU uses the DE symbol,
I should have written that some kashrus organizations use it.


From: Zev Itzkowitz <zev@...>
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 14:15:35 -0400
Subject: Three blessings and Seventy faces

Shalom Y'all!
 1) I told a friend about R. Freundel hypothesis about the three 
blessings in Birchat HaShachar being polemic in nature. After a bit of 
research into the matter (as he is currently writing a paper on the 
subject), he found this question discussed in the N'tiv Binah.
 2) With all the discussion a couple of week's ago about the 70 faces of 
the Torah, the one ques. that I was surprised no one asked is, where did 
that expression come from anyway? 
    IMHO, I would like to suggest that this expression comes from the   
70 elders of the Sanhedrin. Every one of them had a say, from the least to
greatest. Odds are they did not come to unanimous decisions, except on rare 
occasions. However, they couldn't just discount the minority opinions, they 
just ruled against them. But that doesn't make them any less valid from a 
Torah perspective. Just my 6.018 agarots worth. Kol Tuv!
                                  Zev Itzkowitz


End of Volume 13 Issue 13