Volume 13 Number 99
                       Produced: Wed Jul  6 23:00:35 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Academic Research
         [Jeffrey Woolf]
         [Avi Witkin]
Ashkenaz/Sefard Pronunciation.
         [Meir Lehrer]
Forcing of Gets
         [Janice Gelb]
Gavra and Heftsa
         [Chaim Schild]
Hebrew Word Processors
         [Yaacov Fenster]
         [Finley Shapiro]
         [Pinchus Laufer]
R. Akiva Story
         [Louis Rayman]
Restaurants open on Shabbat 13/82
         [Warren Burstein]
         [Doug Behrman]
         [Michael Lipkin]
Tuition assistance.
         [Michael Lipkin]


From: Jeffrey Woolf <F12043@...>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 06:35:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Academic Research

As to the intemperate attack on me...First, I will try to reply soon,
point by point. In the interim I suggest that the writer peruse the
second half of the third section of the Moreh where Rambam uses pagan
literature in the interst i of deducing Truth. He should also note Part
I, ch. 71....Personally, I'm not at all bothered by the so called
indifference of the Haredi world. I'm secure in the truth of the Modern
Orthodox way. On the contrary, the tremendous imitation of academia in
Haredi 'Institutes' combined with the defensive posture of Mr Hendeles
simply confirm that we are the unsettling factor.

                                               Rabbi Dr Jeffrey R. Woolf
                                               RIETS, 1982
                                               Harvard, 1991
                                               Dept of Talmud
                                               Bar Ilan University


From: Avi Witkin <msavi@...>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 09:51:25 +0300 (WET)
Subject: Apology

In the discussion of whether or not to mention to your employee about 
shabat and yom tovim, I wrote a reponse in which it seems I was critical 
of Yeshiva University. I want to apologize. In no way did I mean for it 
to be understood this way. In fact there was no reason for me to even 
mention YU.  

Avi Witkin


From: lehrer%<milcse@...> (Meir Lehrer)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 00:31:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Ashkenaz/Sefard Pronunciation.

On Mon, 27 Jun 1994 Pinchus Laufer wrote:

>In Section V. (Changes in Pronumciation) he states that R. Yaakov Emden
>(1697-1776) "complains that Sephardim do not distinguish... between a
>tzere and a segol"
>So it seems that this is not a new problem!

   Okay, fair enough. Ashkenazim do not (on the whole) properly
distinguish between a 'Chet' and a 'Chuf', a 'Qoof' and a 'Kuf', an
'Aleph' and an 'Ayin', or a 'Vet' and a 'Wuw (Vuv)'. These are all
entirely different sounds al-pi (according to) Edut Hamizrach nusachim
(Iraqi's and Syrians, primarily).  Although Iraqis are not Sefardim,
I'll use them as an example here. It is also not a hard-and-fast rule
that all Sefardi and Oriental Jews do not distinguish the difference
between a 'tzere' and a 'segol'. I've equally heard many Ashkenazim
improperly pronounce a Qamatz-Qatan, enunciating it as a regular Qamatz
(l'dugmah, 'as a sample', Kad-shenu instead of Kod-shenu). A
Qamatz-Qatan is not always an 'O' sound, but in many of the cases were
it is, I hear all kinds of Jews mispronounce the word in question.

   B'sach hakol (in total), let's not use this forum to 'pick out the
faults of Sefardim'. There's plenty of problems on both sides of the
fence, and plenty of different Mesorot (traditions) to go around.

- Meir Lehrer


From: <Janice.Gelb@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 10:11:38 +0800
Subject: Forcing of Gets

Nosson Tuttle writes:

>If it is those who will be blackballed by their husband when they need
>a Get and cannot relay on Beit Din to beat up the husbands because of
>the limited power which Beit Din has in the Galut to resort to capital
>methods, maybe people should spend a little more time dating and
>determining who it is that they are marrying.  I don't think we want to
>desecrate the institution of marriage just because there are some who
>unfortunately abuse it.  Just be careful when entering.

Case history: When my husband and I decided to get a divorce, he asked
if I would be willing to have him use my olim rights to get a mortgage
for an apartment. I agreed with no hesitation, and the plan was that I
would return to the States and wait until the mortgage paperwork was
done before we filed for divorce. When I told my friends that I was
leaving Israel without receiving a Get first, nearly all of them were
appalled that I would take the chance that my husband might change his
mind and refuse to give me a Get and I would be stuck in the US as an
aguna. My assurances that he wasn't that kind of person were met with
horror stories of couples friends had known where the husband turned
nasty during divorce proceedings even if he had been perfectly amiable
about the separation before.

So, marrying a perfect prince is no guarantee that he will remain that
way, especially while you're breaking up. My ex *did* remain a prince,
but evidently that was uncommon...

Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
<janiceg@...>   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 


From: SCHILD%<GAIA@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 20:01:32 -0400
Subject: Gavra and Heftsa

After seeing Aryeh Frimer's post, I was wondering. The concept of viewing
Halacha via Gavra and Heftsa is from Brisk ?? Is there a good treatment
of the topic in English ?? Hebrew ??



From: Yaacov Fenster <fenster@...>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 08:33:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Hebrew Word Processors

> From: Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...>
> Some company in Mass. called Cliff systems (or Griff systems -- something 
> like that) sells Hebrew Windows and Hebrew WFW in the USA...
> (They were both made in Israel...)

The correct name is:
Glyph Systems
P.O.B. 134 
Andover, MA 01810
Tel: (508)-470-1317
Fax: (508)-474-8087

They sell and support various international products including Hebrew,
Arabic, versions of MS Windows.

Also, any product which runs on "regular" MS Windows will give you some
Hebrew functionality when run under Hebrew Windows. Hebrew Windows also
comes with a special version of Write for Windows which enables you to
write bi-lingual documents as long as you don't need anything too fancy.

% Yaacov Fenster		(603)-881-1154  DTN 381-1154
% <y.fenster@...>	      fenster@world.std.com
% <fenster@...>   Yaacov.Fenster@zko.mts.dec.com 


From: Finley Shapiro <Finley_Shapiro@...>
Date: 6 Jul 1994 20:34:01 U
Subject: Newtonmas

In response to Sam Juni,American Religious Holidays and Jews:

I like to remember that Isaac Newton's birthday is December 25th.  Call
it Newtonmas.  Perhaps we should refrain from working that day in his
honor.  Some day have a few drinks (maybe on Purim) and try writing some
Newtonmas carols.

(Actually, I hear that Newton's birthday was changed to December 25th
after he was born, due to the change from the Julian to the Gregorian

Finley Shapiro


From: <plaufer@...> (Pinchus Laufer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 09:04:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Pronunciation

It seems that I owe Meir Lehrer an apology for using the word "problem".
I should have said "issue".  In mitigation, please let me put my
statement in context.

I asked the list whether they had ever heard of the demise of the tzere
as it was new to me.  I received 2 classes of answers: (1) this is just
sloppy (as are most other pronunciation controversies) and (2) sources
for the equivalence of tzere and segol (both pronounced like the "e" in
egg) from the last 30 years or so.

More recently, there was a query on the list about changing from
Ashkenaz to Sefard nusach and vice-versa.  I referred to Rabbi Turkel's
article for this point, and in passing noted that the tzere segol
"issue" is not of recent vintage.

If anyone was offended by my tone please accept my apologies.



From: ccorp!mbr21!<lrayman@...> (Louis Rayman)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 20:01:06 -0400
Subject: R. Akiva Story

re: the story of R. Akiva teaching an orphan after meeting the
father's "ghost" -

1) I believe R. Akica taught him to say borchu, not kaddish
2) Where is this story brought down???  I've been looking for it, but
cannot find it

Louis Rayman - Mercenary Programmer


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 10:24:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Restaurants open on Shabbat 13/82

<moshel@...> (Moshe Linzer) asks:
> What exactly is the problem with a restaurant (owned by Jews) that is
> open on Shabbat?

NEIL PARKS  <aa640@...> responds:
> There is a principle that public desecration of Shabbos is equivalent to
> violating all the commandments of the Torah

I don't think that this is the problem.  At least I have not heard
that restaurateurs who publically desecrate Shabbat outside of the
restaurant are not granted a hechsher for their restaurant.

 |warren@         bein hashmashot, in which state are the survivors
/ nysernet.org    buried?


From: <ASLAN7@...> (Doug Behrman)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 20:00:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Transliteration

This subject has seemingly expanded to take over much thought and time.
Here's a novel idea, if it works don't fix it.
The current methods or, lack thereof, seem perfectly adequate for most
communications. If there is a question (a rare occasion I'd warrant) then ask
the writer. If you want to know the correct Hebrew spelling then look it up.
Doug Behrman

From: <msl@...> (Michael Lipkin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 20:01:11 -0400
Subject: Transliteration.

I disagree that there is need for any standard transliteration scheme.
I have yet to see a word in MJ transliterated phonetically that I
couldn't figure out (as opposed to Lon Eisenberg's hieroglyphics!).
Furthermore, I think the variation in transliteration choice among the
posters to MJ is one of several nuances we use to get a better insight
into who the poster really is in this restrictively two-dimensional
medium we use to communicate with eachother.



From: <msl@...> (Michael Lipkin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 13:37:34 -0400
Subject: Tuition assistance.

In MJ 13:92 Gershon Schlussel asks:

>If a parent is giving large amounts of money for charity elsewhere, (that
>is, large enough to cover the amount of assistance that the yeshiva is
>being asked to absorb), should the parent's "charity expense" be
>considered a valid  cost in evaluating the amount of assistance to be
>granted to the parent? For example, if a parent gives $10,000 charity for
>other causes and he then requests $5,000 of tuition assistance from the
>yeshiva, should 5,000 of the $10,000 be considered an invalid cost in the
>parent's financial picture?

I recently got a psak on what is essentially this question.  I asked
(for now B"H theoretically) if one had to make the choice between using
money set aside for charity (maaser) to help pay yeshiva tuition or
asking the yeshiva for financial assistance what should one do?  The
answer I received was to use the maaser first.  Basically, because
charity starts at home, i.e.  tzedaka priorities begin locally and move



End of Volume 13 Issue 99