Volume 14 Number 66
                       Produced: Wed Aug  3  1:25:46 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Association of Jewish Scientists Convention
         [Sam Juni]
Early Jewish Chronology
         [Martin Stern]
Microwave popcorn
         [Ira Rosen]
Popcorn, or is a Microwave "kosher"
         [Steven Edell]
Rabbis sons
         [YoF Teachers]
SIKS Hashgacha [Does this symbol represent reliable Kashrut] ?
         [David G Freudenstein]
The Requirement to Lie
         [Binyomin Segal]
V'imru _____
         [Danny Skaist]
Vintage Carlebach Classics
         [Dan Goldish]
Wonder-Drops for Fasting
         [Warren Burstein]


From: Sam Juni <JUNI@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 20:10:14 -0400
Subject: Association of Jewish Scientists Convention

I have received several questions re the upcoming convention in private
postings. Let me respond here for the information of other interested parties.

            Unfortunately, I misplaced all the literature.  The
 Convention is August 19-21 at the Homowack. Price is roughly $250 per
 person.  Program is usually varied and interesting, crowd is colorful.
 Babbysitting, kids dining facilities, day camp are all acceptable.

            That's about all I know. We have been attending for several
years, and have found it worthwhile to return.

              The numbers for AOJS are:  Phone (212) 229-2340
                                         Fax   (212) 229-2319

                                              Take Care
                                                       Sam Juni


From: Martin Stern <MSTERN@...>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 16:50:00 PDT
Subject: Early Jewish Chronology

I am at a loss to find a chronological listing for the following:

     The Later Prophets
     Men of the Great Assembly
     Major Tannaim
     Major Amoraim.

Any info on these people's chonologic data which can be e-mailed to me will 
be greatly appreciated.

Moshe Stern


From: Ira Rosen <irosen@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 15:54:37 -0400
Subject: Microwave popcorn

Microwave popcorn, as sold in supermarkets, has a small hole in the top
of the bag so steam can escape (that's why you can smell it when it
cooks). If there are problems with treif microwave use (and I believe
there are) this certainly compounds the popcorn problem - the food is
not sealed from the treif environment.
		Ira Rosen


From: Steven Edell <edell@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 17:19:23 -0400
Subject: Popcorn, or is a Microwave "kosher"

In a previous posting, someone asked about making popcorn in a
microwave, assuming the popcorn bag is completely sealed.

When I visited my mother before she passed away recently, I asked about
her microwave as well.  I was told that as long as the brown-in bag,
popcorn bag, etc, are completely sealed, there is no problem.

Steven Edell, Computer Manager   Internet:<edell@...>
United Israel Appeal, Inc                   <uio@...>
(United Israel Office)    **ALL PERSONAL**          Voice:  972-2-255513
Jerusalem, Israel        **OPINIONS HERE!**         Fax  :  972-2-247261


From: <sl14402@...> (YoF Teachers)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Rabbis sons

While we're looking for oldies but goodies like Shlomo Carlebach, does
anyone know where one can get their hands on the Rabbis Sons tapes or
records - besides the Greatest Hits which you see once in a while in book


YoF Teachers (<sl14402@...>)


From: David G Freudenstein <dgf@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:27:44 -0400
Subject: SIKS Hashgacha [Does this symbol represent reliable Kashrut] ?

Might anyone know, officially or otherwise, about the reliability of a
[new-to-me] Kashrut symbol,

[with the 'K' printed larger, but all letters uppercase]??

A local New York supermarket has started carrying what appears to be a very
nicely prepared fancy bread (called something like
	Mediterranean Focaccia).

It is made in Italy by a firm called Parmalat, distributed via Hasbrouck(?)
New Jersey, with


printed on it, and I was just wondering whether any of the MJ readers might
know anything about the reliability of this Hashgacha.

David Freudenstein


From: <bsegal@...> (Binyomin Segal)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 12:42:09 -0400
Subject: The Requirement to Lie

We've talked around this a bunch, and Im not sure this is directly
relevant to our discussion, but I thought it was intresting, so...

Ive had a bunch of weddings recently, and in the process of preparing to
speak at vorts, 7 brachos, etc, I looked up the gemara (ktubos 16b-17a);
keytzad mrakdim lifnei haKallah (how does one dance before/praise the

To make a long story short, the hallacha is we say, "Kallah Naeh
V'chassodah" (the bride is beautiful and full of kindness). We say this
even when its NOT true! (many will point out that commentaries point to
the fact that it may not be a clear lie (in that it could mean something
which is true ie beutiful actions, kind in the eyes of the groom etc),
but the objections in the gemara make it clear that this statement is
_at least_ an implied lie.

Whats even more intresting (to me) is the gemaras discussion (see esp
the way the Taz in Even Haezer 65 explains it). The gemara records that
the accepted & general practice is that if someone buys something that
is bad (poor quality, paid too much, etc) we praise the object. We lie
to make him feel good.

Bais Hillel quotes this practice as proof that lieing is acceptable in
the case of the bride as well. Bais Shammai (who argues in the case of
the bride) seems to accept the practice as correct. Their diagreement
with Bais Hillel is that Chazal should not decree a requirement to lie.
(That is, the practice in the market is indeed correct - but
unlegislated, we can not legislate such behavior as would be required in
the case of the bride.)

By accepting Bais Hillel as Halacha, it seems to me that:
1. It is proper (though not obligatory) to lie anywhere it will help the
persons feelings, and there is nothing else that can be done. (like in the
market case where he can no longer return the object)
2. Under specific circumstances our Rabbis can require us to lie.
3. Even where it is proper (or required) to lie, one should still try to
avoid a blatant lie - as long as the implied lie serves the purpose as well
as the blatant lie (see Tosafos)

Does that all make sense? comments?
(btw because of all these weddings i have _not_ thought thru this all
exactly, these are "first edition" comments. I retain the right to change
my mind)



From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 12:42:05 -0400
Subject: V'imru _____

>David Griboff
>However, I have a question about a similar topic: Kaddish.  The last two
>words of all of the 'paragraphs' are "V'imru Amein" .And say, Amen.
>However, there are many chazzanim who say (out loud) the "V'imru", but
>never say the "Amein" part until the rest of the congregation does.  From

I saw in the Shulchan Orach of the Rav, that the brocho actually ends
before the word "V'imru".  In the case where the Chazzan takes to long
to sing out "V'imru Amein", there is a problem with an "orphaned Amen".
(hefsek of time between brocho and amen).  He says that you should say
Amen anytime after the end of the brocho and not wait for the "V'imru

When I hear a chazzan do as you described I say amen when he finishes
the brocho, which is at the same time as he says "V'imru".



From: Dan Goldish <GOLDISH@...>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 21:10:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Vintage Carlebach Classics

Regarding the recent inquiries of (relatively) old Jewish musical
"classics", the first Carlebach record was "Haneshomoh Loch", issued in
1959.  It was followed by Carlebach's second record "Borchi Nafshi"
issued in 1960.

I see on the back of the album jacket is the address of
the record company:  Zimra Records, 200 W. 57th Street,
New York 19, NY     The catalog numbers are Z-201 and
Z-202, respectively.   Perhaps someone in the NY area
(Meish, you awake?) could find out if they're still in 

Dan Goldish
Boston, Mass.


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 09:09:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Wonder-Drops for Fasting

Dr. Sam Juni writes:

>For the last Tisha B'Av, there were ads all over for Wonder Drops from Israel
>with an endorsement from a Hareidi Dayan, to ease fasting.  Does anyone have
>the scoop on this phenomenon?

The Israeli Ministry of Health issued orders banning all of the products
that are sold with claims that they ease fasting, as they have not been
proven to be effective.

 |warren@         bein hashmashot, in which state are the survivors
/ nysernet.org    buried?


End of Volume 14 Issue 66