Volume 14 Number 99
                       Produced: Wed Aug 24 18:23:39 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Caffeine Anonymous
         [Michael Lipkin]
Dor Yeshorim and Gaucher's Disease
         [Yosef Bechhofer]
         [Turkel Eli]
Milk in Montreal
         [Nathan Friedman]
Milk Issue Information
         [Meshulum Laks]
Prayers for the Sick on Shabbat
         [Warren Burstein]
Rav Chaim Naeh and the Chazon Ish
         [Abe Perlman]
Two Kashrut Questions
         [Richard Schultz]
Women/Kiddush Levanah (M-J 14/39)
         [Frank Loewenberg]
         [Joseph Steinberg]
YU issue
         [Dr Steve Bailey]


From: mljewish (Avi Feldblum)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 18:18:20 -0400
Subject: Adminitrivia

Here are some more mail-jewish Mazal Tov's that people have sent
in. Mazal Tov to all!

 		Mazel Tov to Aryeh and Esther Frimer on the Engagement
of their Daughter Michal to Avi Jacob (son of Haddassah and Steve Jacob
of Ramot).

      It's a girl!!!! daughter and grand-daughter of mail-jewish subscribers
 Chana Amalia Edinger, daughter of Benjamin and Shlomit Edinger, was born
 Aug. 14th at 12:16 PM, weighing 7 lb 8 oz of pure sweetness.
 Chana is the 1st granddaughter (can't you tell?) of Henry and Rose Edinger
 and Mechy and Sheila Frankel.

[Wow, Shlomit Edinger, Henry Edinger, Mechy Frankel and Sheila Frankel
are all mail-jewish subscribers!]

Mazal Tov to list members Ed & Gilda Norin on their Silver anniversary. 
May you read mail-jewish for many more years to come.

Avi Feldblum
Your friendly moderator


From: <msl@...> (Michael Lipkin)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 10:21:15 -0400
Subject: Caffeine Anonymous

For people trying to wean themselves off of caffeine for Yom Kippur I
have the following, which I clipped from the newspaper a few years ago.

              JOLT-O-METER (amounts of caffeine in milligrams)
COFFEE (6 ounces)                     SODAS (12 ounces)
- Filtered:            110-150        - Jolt:                        72
- Instant:              40-108        - Coca-Cola                  45.6
- Decaffeinated:           2-5        - Pepsi-Cola                 38.4
                                      - Mountain Dew:                54
TEA (6 ounces)
- 3-5 minute brew:       20-60         CHOCOLATE
- Instant:               12-28        - Hot cocoa (6 ounces)        2-8
- Iced tea (12 ounces)   22-36        - Milk chocolate (1 ounce)  .1-15
                                      - Dark chocolate (1 ounce)   5-35
                                      - Chocolate milk (8 ounces)   2-7


From: <YOSEF_BECHHOFER@...> (Yosef Bechhofer)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 01:47:04 -0400
Subject: Dor Yeshorim and Gaucher's Disease

Like US News & World Report, I too am troubled by the extension of dor
Yeshorim testing to the non-fatal (as I understand, Rabbi Adin
Steinzaltz has this disease and has led quite a productive life)
Gaucher's disease, and question the Bitachon issue here.

Which Gedolei Hora'ah have approved this extension, if any?


From: Turkel Eli <turkel@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 11:25:42 -0400
Subject: Microwaves

     Some people have suggested that one needs 2 microwaves for dairy
and meat. I wanted to point out that this is not the generally accepted
opinion and as usual CYLOR. Also it was pointed out to me by Finley
Shapiro that all airlines microwave their kosher closed meals in
their  "treif" microwave ovens. These meals are double sealed but
for different reasons (mainly that there is no supervision at the time 
of the cooking) which do not apply to someone cooking his own meals or



From: Nathan Friedman <nathan@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 10:28:29 -0400
Subject: Milk in Montreal

Readers may be interested in hearing about the situation regarding milk
and dairy products in Montreal.

There are two producers of Cholov Yisroel products in Montreal. (I do
not know of the status of non Cholov Yisroel products here).  The local
rabbonim finished checking the cows used to produce Stern products
yesterday and found that the number of cows which had had some kind of
corrective surgery was small enough that there was no problem.  Rav
Hendel (of Lubavitch) and Rav Lerner (of Belz) issued statements to that

The herds used to produce Mehadrin products had a larger number of cows
which presented a problem (about 15 out of 200).  The rabonnim came out
with a heter for their products (via a letter from Rav Lerner).  I
understand (third hand) that the heter used the fact that the number of
cows which had the procedure done within the past year was very small
and that the other cows had lived for over a year and the problem with
the cow was only a sofek (since not all procedures make the cow treif).

The variation between farms here is Quebec is quite surprising.  In the
herd used by Stern it is under 1%.  In that used by Mehadrin, it is over
7%.  Mehadrin had been considering changing suppliers and was in the
process of negotiating with a new farm when this issue came up.  When
that herd was checked, I understand that the incidence of problematic
cows was about 20%.

I have a couple of questions that mail.jewish readers might be able to
help with.  I understand the O-U has given a blanket heter for dairy
products.  Is this true, and if so, does anyone know what it is based

Does anyone know whether this problem exits in Europe?  Specifically, is
there any problem with Shmerling cheeses?  Recently some French cheeses
have become available in Montreal (real cheese for a pleasant change
from the ersatz American products :-).  They are under the supervision
of either Rav Sechbach or Rav Schlesinger of Strassburg.  Does anyone
know of their status?

Incidentally, yesterday I saw someone on the net quote Rav Posen of KAJ
to the effect that all dairy products were permitted.  (I don't remember
whether this was on mail.jewish or soc.culture.jewish which I had a
chance to read yesterday.) I mentioned this to Rav Posen's son last
night.  He told me that his father was very upset that such a rumor was
circulating.  When the problem first arose, Rav Posen told someone that
if the number of cows was very small, he didn't see a problem.  It
turned out later that the number was not that small (in certain cases),
but his statement had been taken by some as a blanket heter.

Nathan Friedman
McGill University


From: Meshulum Laks <mpl@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 08:53:57 -0400
Subject: Milk Issue Information

I read with interest the submissions of Rabbi's Adlerstein and Frimer
and Lon Eisenberg. There seemed to be confusion about what procedure was
being performed on the cows. So I called Riva Katz, vet to the frum
internet, who is off-line apparently, who gave me this info.  Cows
sometime overeat (sound familiar from shabbos lunch) and can get into a
serious bloating situation with the (?methane) gas buildup. So joe
farmer, if he has a vet handy will have him insert a oral gastric tube
through the mouth into the stomach. note that this makes no hole it
simply is a catheter through the mouth, as is used in many inpatients in
the hospital.

However if no vet is available, and he doesnt know how to do it himself,
he will either use a trochar (stabbing metal canula) through the skin
into the stomach to relieve the gas, or will even stab with a knife to
do so.  Apparently the animal feels much better afterwords. There is a
real danger of animals exploding spontaneously without doing
this. (Monty pythonesque).

It should have nothing to do with the quality of the feed, just the
quantity, so the only differences in LA is that cows there may not 'pig'
out as much (groan).  Riva notes that in her experience, in pennsylvania
the farmers seem to use the oral-gastric tube.

She said that issues had been raised in israel about cesarian sections
for cows as sources of trefus, but that it had been ok'd.  A reference
she gave me was "techniques in large animal surgery" by (uncertain
authors) Turner or Turel and McIery???.  It seems to have nothing to do
with gas problems at birth.

Meshulum Laks


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 07:09:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Prayers for the Sick on Shabbat

Allen Elias writes:

>Why should people's health be considered tirchei d'tziburah?
>Is 15 minues too much to give for your sick neighbors?

Would the prayers be of less benifit to the sick if one of the
suggestions for cutting down on the time of the prayer (such as having
each person who knows of sick people say their names from their seat)
was adopted?

 |warren@         an Anglo-Saxon." -- Stuart Schoffman
/ nysernet.org


From: Abe Perlman <abeperl@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 10:01:55 EDT
Subject: Rav Chaim Naeh and the Chazon Ish

In a recent mj the following appears:

>Who gave Rav Chaim Naeh the right to disagree with Chazon Ish about
>the size of shiurim?"

This is a strange statement to make especially since Rav Chaim Noeh
lived before the Chazon Ish.  In reality it is the Chazon Ish who argued
with Rav Chaim Noeh.

Mordechai Perlman   Toronto, Canada    <abeperl@...>


From: <schultz@...> (Richard Schultz)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 08:14:52 EDT
Subject: Two Kashrut Questions

I was baking an angel food cake last night and two kashrut questions
(unrelated except that they both arose from steps in baking the cake)

(1) When baking with eggs, we are supposed to break the eggs into a
separate bowl to make sure there's not a blood spot, which would tref up
everything.  If so, why are we allowed to eat hard-boiled eggs, since
there might have been a blood spot in one of those too?

(2) In the past, even up to a few months ago, I noticed that *no* brand
of Cream of Tartar (including national brands like Spice Islands and
McCormick) had a hechsher.  I had assumed that this was because they get
Cream of Tartar from scraping wine barrels (you can look it up in the
Merck Index).  But now it seems that every brand on the shelf has an OU?
Is this simply a function of my having moved back to the East Coast
where things are more likely to have a hechsher, or have they changed
the method of producing Cream of Tartar, or has the OU simply found a
					Richard Schultz


From: <F46022@...> (Frank Loewenberg)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 12:13 O
Subject: Women/Kiddush Levanah (M-J 14/39)

A note on the question asked in M-L 14/39 about the minhag of women not
reciting kiddush l'vevanah.  R. Tzvi Schechter in his NEFESH HARAV
(p.176) notes that Rav Soloveitchik sz"l did not accept the argument
that kiddush l'vanah is a time-bound mitzvah (z'man g'rama).


From: Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 10:02:59 -0400
Subject: YU


:There is a dark side to Y.U. and it was significant the year I was
:there.  From what some recent graduates tell me things appear to be
:much better.  Indeed, I see a lot of high caliber young people coming
:out of Y.U. these days.  I think the, now routine, year or two in
:Israel is making a difference for both FFB's and baalei teshuva.  Then
:again maybe I have on the same rose colored glasses others had on when
:I was at Y.U.  I'd be interested to know from recent grads or current
:students if some of the things I witnessed are still pervasive.

Things seem to have gotten a lot better in general since most guys began
spending a year or two in Israel -- the Bet Midrash is full AT NIGHT
(till quite late actually), etc. This is not my own idea either -- I
have heard it from the numerous people who work at YU.


From: <KXBV97A@...> (Dr Steve Bailey)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 02:02:06 EDT
Subject: YU issue

I, like my son, Jay Bailey, have been following the discussion of my
alma mater on m-j. I, too, was a Commentator editor-in-chief(27 years
ago) and reached the same conclusions as he did regarding negative
evaluations of YU.
 The fact is that the school is the only educational institution at the
college level to represent "centrist orthodoxy" and the differences
among reactions to the environment can be attributed to differences
among receptivity of students, not the system. One can experience the
"right", the "center" and the "left" in the same environment, as well as
some who would rather be elsewhere.
 But the future of Judaism is in the Torah-uMada approach (Torah
integrated with scientific knowledge) in the next century and we need to
appreciate the one institution which can produce what Rav Samson Raphael
Hirsch called the ideal Jew:"Mensch-Yisrael" -- a fully developed,
ethical, educated committed Jew.


End of Volume 14 Issue 99