Volume 15 Number 37
                       Produced: Thu Sep 29 12:29:55 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Birkat Hamazon for women
         [Ari Blachor]
         [Aryeh Blaut]
Esrog Jelly/Jam
         [Bezalel Fuchs]
Psalms 29 and 24
         [Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank]
Psukim after Shir HaMaalot
         [David Curwin]
Shabbat is the Holiest Day
         [Stephen Irwin Weiss]
Solar/lunar calendar
         [Alan Mizrahi]
Weddings, Curses, Pray for the State, etc.
         [David Ben-Chaim]
Writing God in English
         [Stephen Irwin Weiss]
Yeshiva Sex Education or Not
         [Jeremy Nussbaum]
Yom Kippur
         [Yitzchok Adlerstein]
Yom Kippur Holiday
         [Sam Juni]
Zmanim Software
         [Engineer Ed]


From: Ari Blachor <100274.3470@...>
Date: 25 Sep 94 09:06:31 EDT
Subject: Birkat Hamazon for women

Granted that I am new here, but I must admit being surprised that no one
mentioned the Halachic sources involved (that is, unless it appeared prior to
Number 23).

The Rama (Orach Chaim 187:3) says that women do not say "bris" in
benching, because it does not apply to them. The Mishna Brura (ibid 9)
says that this too applies regarding mentioning "Torah". The Chofetz
Chaim also adds that the minhag nowadays is that women do say both
"Bris" and "Torah". He gives two reasons:

1) the reference is to the "bris" and "Torah" of the men
2) as far as Torah is concerned, women do indeed have the obligation to learn
whatever laws that are applicable to them (as is brought down in Orach Chaim

Ari Blachor


From: Aryeh Blaut <ny000592@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 22:40:07 -0800
Subject: Clip-Art

Does anyone know of a clip art picture of a picture of a wandering jew plant?
It could be either for IBM or MAC.


Aryeh Blaut


From: <FUCHS@...> (Bezalel Fuchs)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 08:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Esrog Jelly/Jam

Does anyone out there have a reipe for esrog jam/jelly.  Someone told me
once it was very good (not to mention one of the few few things to do
with your leftover esrogim).  Thanks!

Bezalel Fuchs


From: Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank <Alan.Cooper@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 10:38:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Psalms 29 and 24

I, too, would like to know more about the use of these two psalms in the
liturgy.  A few salient points:

1.  We have no evidence of any ancient ritual for returning the Torah to
the ark.  The earliest reference is, I believe, in the Seder Rav Amram,
where the return of the Torah is accompanied by the two verses from Ps
148 (yehallelu...)  that are still recited in the rites of all qehillot.

2.  On Shabbat, the practice of adding the recitation of Ps 29 and Ps
24:7ff. (not the whole psalm) is attested in the Sephardic rite of
medieval times.  This practice evidently was necessitated by the
inauguration of another well-known practice--the procession of the Torah
around the synagogue prior to its return to the ark.  (You needed to
have something to sing while the Torah was on tour.)

3.  The differentiation of Ps 29 for Shabbat vs. Ps 24 for weekdays is
very late (17th century?), and I do not know the explanation for it.

4.  The poster was correct in stating that the appropriateness of Ps 24
for hakhnasat ha-torah is self-evident.  (The midrash connects the Psalm
with Solomon's installation of the ark in the Holy of Holies.)  The
relevance of Ps 29 is only slightly more subtle: the seven qolot of the
psalm are traditionally connected with both the giving of the Torah and
with the seven blessings of the Shabbat amidah, and the blessing of
peace with which the psalm concludes is readily connected with Shabbat
rest.  You can find this information in late homiletical commentaries on
Psalms.  A good one that was reprinted recently is the Be'er Avraham, by
the son of the Vilna Gaon.

With all good wishes, and mo'adim le-simcha,  Alan Cooper


From: <6524dcurw@...> (David Curwin)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 02:19:16 EDT
Subject: Psukim after Shir HaMaalot

The custom of saying Shir HaMaalot or Al Naharot Bavel before
Birkat HaMazon is a relatively new one, apparently dating from
around the 1600's. (It is mentioned in the Pri Megadim, I think,
as coming from the Zohar in parshat Truma, but I couldn't find it
anywhere). Anyway, this minhag spread pretty well, and some people
also have the minhag of saying a few other psukim - beginning with
Tehilat Hashem Y'daber Pi. I was told by someone, in the name of
my Rosh Yeshiva, that these additional psukim were only added so
the birkat hamazon, and the perek of tehillim preceding it, would
not emphasize Eretz Yisrael so much (Birkat HaMazon is full of 
references to the land, and both Shir HaMaalot, and Al Naharot 
Bavel are two of the most strongly connected mizmorim to Eretz Yisrael.)
Does anyone know the historical background for the adding of these
additional psukim? Does anyone else have the minhag davka not to
say these psukim because of what they represent? 

David Curwin		      Bnei Akiva's Shaliach to the Net
904 Centre St.          List Owner of B-AKIVA on Jerusalem One
Newton, MA 02159                   <6524dcurw@...>
617 527 0977          Why are we here? "L'hafitz Tora V'Avoda"


From: Stephen Irwin Weiss <sweiss@...>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Shabbat is the Holiest Day

Re David Curwin's question on why Shabbat is the holiest day of the year 
and not Yom Kippur:

a) The Talmud teaches the principle: tadir u'she'ayno tadir, tadir kodem 
-- bewteen that which is frequent and that which is not frequent, the 
frequent always takes precedence. The basic underlying asumption is tha 
the more important something is, the more ofetn you should be doing it.
(This is also why r'tzei is said before ya'aleh v'yavo in Birkat Hamazon, 
for example). The very fact that Shabbat comes every week suggests it is 

b) Shabbat is the affirmation of creation and a Cretor, without which all 
the other mitzvot are meaningless.

Chag Same'ach!

Rabbi Steve Weiss


From: Alan Mizrahi <amizrahi@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 13:59:28 EDT
Subject: Solar/lunar calendar

My next birthday being my 19th, my Jewish Birthday and my secular birthday
will coincide.  I have heard of cases where after 19 years the calendars
were off by a day.  Does anyone know why that happens?

-Alan Mizrahi


From: David Ben-Chaim <DAVIDBC@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 8:25:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Weddings, Curses, Pray for the State, etc.

1) As we're geting ready for our second son's wedding after Simchat
Torah, I would like to know if in any community they have an alternate
to the IMHO (and pls. don't kill me for it) utter tasteless Orthodox
Jewish wedding ceremony.  I'm refering to the fact that the centre of
the ceremonoy is the reading of the Ketuba which is simply a legal
contract. What about some "to love and cherish till death do us
part"...if I remember the words correctly from Bride for a Day.  True,
some Rabbis do put in a few good words, but still the ketuba is the
central (monetary) transaction of the ceremony.

2) Is there any any SPECIFIC injunction against cursing someone who is
doing un-reversal damage (IMHO) to the Jewish State? I'm refering to
dinim (laws), not folk customs against the cursing of someone else.

3) We have heard here in Israel of shuls in the US of A who have stopped
saying the prayer for the State of Israel. I'd like to hear if this is

Hag Sameach to all,

|    David Ben-Chaim                      |
|    The Technion, Haifa, Israel 32000.   |
|    Tel:   972-4-292502                  |
|    email: <davidbc@...>    |


From: Stephen Irwin Weiss <sweiss@...>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Writing God in English

When I was in Rabbinical School my teacher and rabbi used to refer to the 
practice of hyphenating "God" (e.g. G-d) as "Hungarian fanaticism." And 
he would not tolerate it.

G-o-d is NOT God's name, nor should we elevate it to that status. To do 
so is to diminish the unique status and kedusha of the actual names of 
God (in Hebrew) found in our tradition. 

Do we also write "The H-ly -ne Blessed be H-"? "Heavenly F-ther?" Our 
"Higher P-wer"? There are many words and phrases in English that we use 
to refer to God, but none of them carry the inherent essence and 
character of God as do the Hebrew names.

Chag Same'ach!

Rabbi Steve Weiss


From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 9:53:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Yeshiva Sex Education or Not

> >From: Sam Juni <JUNI@...>
>   The recent discussion about dating in the frum community brought up the
>   question of the adequacy of the socialization of our youth toward
>   ultimate marital adjustment.  While the primary issue here is basically
>   one of interpersonal behavior, there seems to be an undercurrent
>   question of sexuality as well.
>   ...
>   It seems clear that we do not want our children to acquire sexual infor-
>   mation from the "street" or from much of the published literature avail-
>   able to youngsters today, as these sources come with an alien value
>   system.  The question is: Are we providing an alternative?

This topic just came up for me.  My older daughter is almost 10, and
starting to approach the age of puberty.  What, if anything, is
offered by Yeshivot, synagogues, hebrew schools for girls and boys
approaching puberty?

Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)


From: Yitzchok Adlerstein <ny000594@...>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 23:23:24 -0800
Subject: Yom Kippur

There is in fact a source for Yom Kippur being the holiest day of the 
year, despite the fact that its violation carries with it a less severe 
punishment than desecration of Shabbos.  See the note in Shaloh Hakadosh 
(in Torah Ohr section, after Hilchos Teshuva, vol.2 pg. 16 of the 
standard version), which seems to cite R Moshe Cordovero.  He argues 
that part of the Rachamim - oriented character of the day changes and 
minimizes what ordinarilly would have been a more severe punishment.


From: Sam Juni <JUNI@...>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 22:40:15 EST
Subject: Yom Kippur Holiday

I read an interesting analysis of the evolution of the Yom Kippur
celebration in the "Meir Nesiv" Encyclopedia by Rabbi Arieli.  Beginning
with the quote from the last Mishna in Taanis, where Tu B'Av and Yom
Kippur are described as the greates holidays for Jews, when girls would
go dancing in the fields dressed in white, looking for potential grooms
(there is some debate about the referrent of dancing actually pertaining
to Yom Kippur in some commentaries), the analysis sees the festivities
being dropped by the end of the destruction of the second Temple, and
finally the transformation of Yom Kippur as a day of crying and fear by
the middle ages.  Note that the analysis is limited to the folk
celebration aspects, not the hallachic features.


From: <EngineerEd@...> (Engineer Ed)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 19:50:40 EDT
Subject: Zmanim Software

Hopefully, some one out in MJ land can help me.  I was given a copy of some
excellent software that calculates and prints out the dovening zmanim for
various cities in the world.  It was shareware, so I printed out the
registration and sent it to the prescribed address.   Unfortunately, the post
office returned the letter with the message that "forwarding order expired."
 Now every time I use the software, I feel as if I was a thief.  I need to
locate the new address for Shore-Tech Company by Howard Ochs.  My last
address for him was E. 10th Street in Brooklyn, NY.  I would be appreciative
if anyone could let me know of his new location.
              Engineer Ed @ AOL.com


End of Volume 15 Issue 37