Volume 15 Number 53
                       Produced: Thu Oct  6  0:22:51 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Esrog jelly and Girls Approaching Puberty
         [Adina Sherer]
etrog jam
         [Lorri Lewis]
Judaism and Islam
         [Joseph Steinberg]
Magnetic and electric keys
         [Joshua W. Burton]
Magnetic Hotel Keys
         [Rav Yisrael Rozen ]
There is no such thing as magnetic and electric hotel door cards
         [Jules Reichel]
Zeno's fly paradox is not a good example of a paradox
         [David Charlap]


From: <adina@...> (Adina Sherer)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 8:28:03 IDT
Subject: Re: Esrog jelly and Girls Approaching Puberty

Re Esrog jelly :
	The recipe used in the past in our family is ( I think)
to wash and slice thin as many esrogim and lemons as you like, using
a ratio of 1 esrog to 2 lemons.  You Then dump them in a huge pot with
water to *barely* cover and lots of sugar ( and I mean a LOT ) and let it
simmer - taste it after it starts to thicken and add more sugar to taste.
That was the whole thing - the sugar had nmo set amount - it was just
poured in.  I assume that if you use pectin or another 'modern day'
jelly thickener you can use less sugar.

Re girls approaching puberty:
> This topic just came up for me.  My older daughter is almost 10, and
> starting to approach the age of puberty.  What, if anything, is
> offered by Yeshivot, synagogues, hebrew schools for girls and boys
> approaching puberty?

	I can't tell you what is available today in the USA.  When I was
growing up the schools , at least the ones that I was familiar with, taught
*nothing*.  I rmemeber sitting in 7th grade and learning the section in
Bereishit where Sara 'becomes young again and can have a baby' and when one
girl asked what that meant ( and literally had NO idea ) the teacher became
VERY embarassed and told her to ask her mother.
	We live in Jerusalem and send our kids to Chorev.  The School
allows one class period a week, on Friday, for the school counselor to
teach a session on society and community, or something like that, from
about 3rd grade.  She just discusses whatever topic comes up, including
current events, or anything in the news that might be upsetting for the
kids, or about kids feelings and how important it is to be sensitive to
them, and so on.  The point is that the kids are used to talking to her
about their feelings and other 'non-standard' topics.  Then when the
girls get to 6th grade she meets with the parents at the first 'meet the
teacher night' of the year and tells them that they MUST start
discussing issues of sex and adolescence and so on with their daughters
- that she will be talking about it over the course of the year but it
must start with basic communication between parents and children,a nd
then she can fill in the gaps and answer questions that the girls might
feel awkward about asking or reinforce information or whatever, as time
goes by.  We gave our daughter a slim purple book called 'The wonder of
being you' or something like that puc\blished by Feldheim or Targum or
one of those for her 10th birthday and used it as a starting point for
conversations over the past year.  Now she's almost 11 and over time we
gradually got into almost all the basic topics.  I must admit that
homosexuality and AIDS have not been covered...

Adina Sherer


From: <lorrin@...> (Lorri Lewis)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 22:36:40 +0500
Subject: etrog jam

I  have made this jam.  It is delicious!  A great way to enjoy the taste of
Sukkot into the winter.  If you know people who have etrog trees try to get
a fresh etrog, probably not kosher for Sukkot, but much tastier for jam. 
(Try me in a few years when our etrog tree gets around to producing fruit.)

{ Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Etrog Jam

Recipe By:      Jewish Cooking for Pleasure, by Molly Lyons Bar-David, 1965
Serving Size:   1
Preparation Time:       1:00

Amount  Measure Ingredient      Preparation Method
1               etrog   
1               orange  

        Wash the etrog and orange and cut them in half lengthwise and then
very thinly slice them.  Remove seeds.  

        Soak the fruit overnight.  Change the water to cover the fruit and
bring to the boil.  Change the water again and bring to the boil once more.

        Pour off the water.  Weigh the fruit and add an equal weight of
white sugar.  Cook over a low heat for about 45 minutes until the jam
begins to jell.  

Lorri Grashin Lewis


From: Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:30:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Judaism and Islam

I never said that Mohammad was considered to be a divinity -- however,
Moslems do believe that if someome does not believe in Mohammed and
practice Islam he cannot reach 'paradise' (which the Moslems believe is a
place where men have many wives, etc.). Jews believe that one need not be
Jewish to reach Gan Eden -- all that must be observed are the 7
commandmants to Bnei Noach. Please read what I originally wrote... 

>From: Steve Wildstrom <swild@...>

     In MJ 15:30, Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...> writes:

(2) OF the three 'Western' religions Judaism is BY FAR the most
universalistic.  We do not believe that to be good a person must be
Jewish -- unlike the Christians who believe that to achieve salvation
one must believe in Jesus or the Moslems who feel the same way about

     The last clause is a bit like saying "or the Jews do about Moses."
     Moslems, who are every bit as monotheistic as we are, assign no hint
     of divinity to Mohammed. He is called "the Prophet" because Islam
     regards him as the last and greatest in the prophetic tradition of
     Moses. And "salvation," as used here, is an exclusively Christian
   _\ \ \  / __`\  /',__\  /'__`\/\ '__`\\ \  _ `\    Joseph Steinberg
  /\ \_\ \/\ \L\ \/\__, `\/\  __/\ \ \L\ \\ \ \ \ \   The Courant Institute
  \ \____/\ \____/\/\____/\ \____\\ \ ,__/ \ \_\ \_\  <steinber@...>
   \/___/  \/___/  \/___/  \/____/ \ \ \/   \/_/\/_/  +1-201-833-9674


From: <burton@...> (Joshua W. Burton)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 00:43:28 -0400
Subject: Magnetic and electric keys

Please be advised that this is just a red heif---I mean, herring.  But one
difference between a magnetic and an electric key is that, in the strict
physicist's sense of the word, magnetic forces do no work....

Obviously, this has no bearing on the issue of whether they do mal'akha!

(Next time you see a magnet pick up a wrecked car at a junkyard, explain
to your kids that magnetism is doing no work at all.  Remind them about
kibud av when they tell you what they think of your physics pilpul.)

Equipment grant expiring? |====================================================
For a new terminal, drive | Joshua W. Burton (401)435-6370 <burton@...>
nail in HERE  ===>  (*)   |====================================================


From: Rav Yisrael Rozen  <zomet@...>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:22:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Magnetic Hotel Keys

There are a number of different systems out there on the market. There are
some cards which are "purely" magnetic but they are not very popular. In
the realm of the cards with an electronic code the Zomet Institute (a
non-profit institute, in Alon Shvut, Israel dedicated to solving problems
of Halacha in modern society, with a special expertise and emphasis on
techno-Halachic problems) has developed a techno-Halachic solution which
two large companies are now relying upon to develop a system which will
not involve Halachic violations. However, this will not help with any of
the existing systems now on the market.

Rav Yisrael Rozen eng.
Director - Zomet


From: <JPREICHEL@...> (Jules Reichel)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:56:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: There is no such thing as magnetic and electric hotel door cards

I didn't respond to David Sherman's post, but then when Rabbi Weiss
asked for confirming responsa, I had to post. All electrically operated
hotel doors are run electrically or electronically, depending on how you
like to say it. That little light you sometimes see, is just an aid to
let you know that the computer has accepted your card. It's operator
feedback. Inside, all of the action happens anyway. How does the
computer know that it's your room?  It's easy. Just look at the card
they give you at the desk. If they've punched a pattern of holes in the
card, it becomes like a computer punch card (i.e.  optically read, in
the old computer days I think that they used mechanical feelers, but no
one would do that anymore). If it's a solid card, they've put on a
magnetic code, like the ones on your credit cards. But all that story
about the cards just affects the sensor. My *guess* is that someone
reasoned that since the card reader is a *magnetic* reader and not an
*optical* reader, no lights were turned on, and all was kosher. But it's
a narrow view. Something has to set the code on the card. Something has
to set the code into the computer memory in the door. The card has to be
read by the computer, and a switch has to be thrown to actuate the
electromagnet which releases the lock so that you can enter. I too would
be interested to learn how anyone can reason that changing the reader
head resolves the halachic issue. And, BTW, the terminology has to be
optical vs magnetic readers. It's *always* electric.  


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 13:38:50 EDT
Subject: Zeno's fly paradox is not a good example of a paradox

Sam Juni <JUNI%<SNYBKSAC.BITNET@...> writes:
>  My translated version of Zeno went something like this: A train begins
>100 miles from the terminal station travelling at 100 mph.  There is a
>fly which is flying at a steady 200 mph between the train and the
>terminal (with no rest stops). It seems that the fly cannot ever get
>crushed since: a) the fly was not standing still when it was crushed,
>thus it must have been moving, b) if moving, it must have had a last
>trip, c) the last trip must have been either toward the train or toward
>the terminal, d) if it was toward the train, then it reaches the train
>before the train reaches the terminal, leaving room between the train
>and terminal, meaning there is no crush, e) if it was toward the
>terminal, the fly reaches the terminal before the train does, meaning
>there is room between the train and terminal, meaning there is no crush.
>The solution lies in the physical fact (opposed to the mathematical)
>that there is no fly (or bouncing ball) that can accomplish such changes
>in direction without periods of non-motion, and the crush occurs at such
>a period.

The "paradox" you describe is trivial to understand.  Eventually, the
train hits the station, and there is zero space between them.  If the
fly always remains between the two (a given), then there eventually
becomes zero space for it to exist in - it gets crushed.  The only way
for this not to happen is if either the train never actually hits the
station, or if the fly takes up no space.

The reason Zeno considers this a paradox is because he also postulates
that the train can never hit the station.  Because it has to first
travel half the distance, and then half that, and then half that, etc.
What Zeno forgets is that for a constant velocity, the time required
to cover half the remaining distance is half the time required to
cover the entire distance.  So, as the distance remaining approaches
zero, the time required to cover that distance also approaches zero.
The result is that the distance/time ratio (your velocity - a known
constant) approaches 0/0.  What Zeno couldn't comprehend is that an
infinite number of zeros (the 0/0 ratio) has a very real value, which
calculus can compute - the train does hit the station, and the space
between them does eventually become zero, and the fly does get
crushed.  Mathematically, logically, and in reality.  No paradox.

>   The Talmudic versions of Zeno take various forms. Here is one:
>Suppose one betroths a woman on condition that she marry another person.
>She then gets betrothed to this other person. ...

This is a real paradox, not at all like the one you presented before.
A real paradox would be one of Zeno's other gems - like "can God
create something so heavy that he can't lift it?"

I hope this isn't too much off topic, but I wanted to point out that,
unlike many of Zeno's paradoxes (which can be solved through
mathematics that wasn't available in his day), the halachic issues you
present are real paradoxes, and require a very different kind of
reasoning to understand.


End of Volume 15 Issue 53