Volume 15 Number 63
                       Produced: Sun Oct  9 11:07:50 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Coming Back from the Dead
         [Bob Werman]
Diet and Age of Puberty
         [Richard Schwartz]
Non-observant-friendly appliances
         [Paul Rodbell]
         [David Taback]
Torah vs Psychology (was Marriage)
         [Louis Rayman - mbr21 ]
Treif meals after Bar Mitzvahs
         [Bob Dale]


From: Bob Werman <RWERMAN@...>
Date: Thu,  6 Oct 94 17:04 +0200
Subject: Coming Back from the Dead

In view of the recent discussion on the subject of coming back to life
after dying, I thought some of the readers might be interested in my own
experience, that of a religious, orthodox Jew.

The following account is from my forthcoming book, _Living with Heart
Disease: Cardiyakking._

Copyright USA 1994

     I am one of those who have "died" and come back to life. It was
January 1977, on a Saturday night. I felt terrible. I had over-eaten,
and I was quite down, even depressed.  I smoked, I read, lay in bed. I
could not sleep, I felt gaseous and even nauseated.  I drank some milk,
swallowed some antacid pills, but felt no relief.  I tried a shot of
whiskey, hoping that it would make me sleepy. But it did not help.  I
felt more and more uncomfortable, sick to my stomach, and irritable.  I
paced the floor, I felt pain and burning in my mid-chest, behind the
breast bone, the sternum.  As much as I did not want to admit it, I
realized that I was having a heart attack.  I asked my wife to call a
friend, a cardiologist.  It was late, after 2 AM Sunday morning, when he

     He came.  I don't think it took long at all, He must have been
convinced from my wife's telephone description that something serious
was up.  He spoke to me quietly, almost softly, questioned me, asked me
to lie down, and did an electrocardiogram, an ECG, on me.  While this
was going on, I lost consciousness.  Later, my wife, who was present,
told me what happened at that time.

     While he was doing the ECG, my eyes suddenly rolled up and I became
blue; the cardiologist discerned that I had developed ventricular
fibrillation, a condition of uncontrolled beating of the heart
incompatible with life.  He pounded my chest and began to perform
artificial resuscitation on me.  (Later, I discovered he had broken
three ribs, a small price for me to pay to be resuscitated
successfully.)  He asked my wife to call an emergency cardiac ambulance
while he continued with the resuscitation for the 20 minutes until the
ambulance arrived.

     I awoke a few minutes later, sat up in bed and vomited.  I had been
treated with two electric shocks, one to stop my heart gone wild, the
second to re-initiate its action, this time with a normal rhythm.  Two
round burn marks, one on the front of my chest, the second on the left
side, each about three inches in diameter, the result of burns from the
paddle electrodes (no electrode jelly had been used, it seems) would
slowly fade over the next six months - reminders of my ordeal, of my
remarkable salvation.

     I remember two men from the ambulance team carrying me down the
stairs sitting in a chair. It was the middle of the night.  At the door,
I saw my son and daughter, looking concerned.  I smiled (tried to
smile?) and was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.

     So I too was a member of that select group, those who had been to
the other side and somehow come back.  I was one of those who might have
spoken of seeing a tunnel with a brilliant light at the end, or of being
in a brilliantly illuminated room, of feeling an indescribable peace and
other unusual experiences and sensations.  I was one of them; and yet
not one of them, for I remembered nothing.  I think, at times, that I
remember black, complete black.  A world in which there was only black.
Was I in hell?  Is hell all blackness?  And were the others in Heaven? I
am not sure.  I am not sure that I remember anything.


From: Richard Schwartz <RHSSI@...>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 12:02:39 EDT
Subject: Diet and Age of Puberty

With regard to the recent posting about discussions with girls
approaching the age of puberty, I have seen several graphs indicating
that the age of puberty for females has decreased by 4 or 5 years for
girls in the last 150 years.  There is a hypothesis that this change is
related to the increasing consumption
 of animal products, and this is supported by the fact that in areas
where the diets are primarily or completely plant-based,the age of
puberty is still from 15 to 19 years of age. Is it possible that heavy
consumption of animal products is changing human beings from G-d's
original intention (Please note Gen. 1:29 in this regard)?  This also
relates to the terrible and increasing problem of teen age pregnancy in
the general society.

Best wishes,   Richard Schwartz   (<rhssi@...>)


From: <prodbell@...> (Paul Rodbell)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 21:32:15 -0500
Subject: Non-observant-friendly appliances

Several recent postings have mentioned the frustration caused by modern
kitchen appliances which are not "observant-friendly". As a wholesaler
and distributor of many brands of larger appliances I have run into the
same stumbling blocks - especially when recently building my own
house. Though there are certainly products which make our life easier,
it seems that the opposite is becoming the norm for us in the kitchen.

It would seem by comments made by one MJ reader that virtually all late
model appliances are problematic for the observant Jew. This is simply
not so.... but.... the door is closing. It may take a large customer
outcry to overcome the problems presented by what is quickly becoming -
due to competitive pressures- a impetus to be " the most modern,
up-to-date, state-of-the-art products on the market."  With progess
comes problems. As with medicine, technology creates new halachic
challanges and requires new halachic approaches.

I don't feel qualified offering halachic advice, and encourage those
interested to CYLOR regarding the practical application of some issues
mentioned here. Rather, I want to clarify what I have seen in the
industry, and promise (bli neder) to try and get more information to
pass on to you about specific brands and models.

Based on the orginal post on this matter, you might think that ALL ovens
have gone digital. That isn't so YET.... but the "top of the line"
models, and "middle" line wall ovens are almost all digital controls for
most functions, if not all. Some "lower", competitive models, slide-in,
and drop-in models can be obtained with conventional "rotory
rheostat-type" temperature knobs. But, as we speak many factories are
making this option available less and less.

Another problem my wife discovered is the alarm buzzer on some newer
ovens.... if you set the oven before Shabbos or Yom Tov to cut off later
in the evening, a buzzer will sound to announce that the cooking time
has finished. That sounds good (pardon the pun) except for the fact that
it will buzz continually for the rest of Shabbos!

Contrary to a previous post's statement, not all newer ovens will cut
off automatically after 12 to 15 hours. Mostly the "top of the line"
products suffer from this problem. I talked with GE and their "Quickset
1, 2, or 3" models in the GE, Hotpoint, RCA and GE Monogram Lines do
have this "safety" cut-off feature. I did talk to a person on their 800
number service line who seemed to sympathize with the problem, though
she had no solutions.  Unfortunatley this kind of feature is all but
impossible to bypass. So much for cooking on Yom Tov sheini.....

Whirlpool, who makes also Kitchen-Aid, Roper and some other brands has
the same cut-off feature on all their digital models. When talking to
another person on their 800 service line, they commented that they had
received enough complaints that they were trying to find a solution to
this. Maybe it would be optional? She could not speak with authority and
I suspect she was telling me what I wanted to hear. I do know of two
friends locally who bought Kitchen-Aid ovens and complained enough that
Kitchen-Aid bought the ovens back and allowed the owners to purchase
another brand without the auto cut-off feature. Unfortunately, the
steamroller is moving forward on this and I suspect most if not all
ovens will in the next couple of years be problematic.

There is a solution to one of the previously mentioned
problems. Sub-Zero refrigerators and freezers do have a fan switch which
activates when the door is opened or closed. What actually happens is
that switch prevents the fan from coming on while the door is open. The
fan itself does not operate unless the temperature inside the
refrigerator or freezer calls for cooling.  One may open or close the
door several times and never cause the fan to come on at all. But if the
fan does try to come on, and one is opening the door, it will stop the
fan at that time while the door is open.

The solution: (assuming one is handy, and is willing to possibly waive
the warranty) is to by-pass the fan permanently so that it may operate
at any time (even with the door open), or install a switch which one
must remember to use before Shabbos or Yom Tov. This switch would only
temporarily bypass the fan switch. Since the only damage done by
permanently bypassing the switch is a minute amount of wasted energy,
that is the better solution of the two. By the way, many Sub-Zero
appliances are serviced by the representative or wholesaler who sells
the product, and may allow the warranty to stand provided you allow them
to do the bypassing.

Another problem which I have run into - and I am familiar with the
workings of the products since I am also a wholesaler of plumbing
products, is in hotels. The latest product to save energy is the
"automatic flush valve" which activates the toilet or urinal in many
public rest-rooms. This product is activated by sensing your approach
through an infra-red beam, and upon your retreat or movement away from
the toilet or urinal it will signal the valve to open and flush. You
cannot "trick" it not to flush, unless the battery in the unit is dead,
or the electricity is out. Don't count on that.

If there are heterim or other ways to approach the use of these "new and
improved" products, I would appreciate your comments on them.


Paul Rodbell
1492 La Chona Court NE
Atlanta, Georgia 30329-3411


From: <david.taback@...> (David Taback)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 11:12:00 +0200
Subject: Software

While having a discussion with my brother recently the issue, of the
halchic status of software and what halacha (other than 'dina d'malchusa
dina' or 'chilul Hashem' from being caught) whould make the practice of
copying permissable or not permissable, was debated. IMHO this would not
be allowed regardless of whether or not software (or intellectual
property in general) has an existing basis in halacha.

Can anyone assist me in with some idea of where to start finding a basis for 
either point of view. If this discussion has already taken place in this 
forum, please accept my apologies.

[This is the only referende I found:
	Halachic status of pirating software [v4n71, v4n77]

Internet : <david.taback@...> Voice : 27-11-6401976


From: ccorp!mbr21!<lrayman@...> (Louis Rayman - mbr21 )
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 18:06:04 EDT
Subject: Torah vs Psychology (was Marriage)

Shaul Wallach <F66204@...> wrire in v15n51:

>     I would suggest looking at things in reverse - when the Jew
> sincerely devotes himself to living by the Torah, in which everything
> in his life is governed by the halacha, he will need have no recourse
> to "psychological matters," because his whole personality is governed
> by the Torah. But if his devotion is incomplete, then at least in part
> he will need the "enlightened human perspective" to deal with the part
> of his personality that is not governed by the Torah.

This statement amazes me.  (Or, as Tosfos always puts it, "Vetayma!")

If a person would be 100% shomer Torah Umitzvos, blev tahor vshalem,
then he would never get depressed, angry, <fill in your favorite
negative emotion here>??!!??  What if the same person had undergone
some physical or emotional trauma that needed to be worked out?  He
wouldn't need to talk it over with someone, to come to grips with his
emotions and learn to deal with them?  (Even if the person he talks
with is a Rov instead of a psychologist, in a case like that they are
serving a similar function).

Why not take it one step furthur and say that a person who is 100%
shomer Torah Umitzvos, blev tahor vshalem, would never get sick, either
physically or psychologically?

Louis Rayman - Hired Gun
Main Office:   <louis.rayman@...>
Customer Site: <lrayman@...>


From: <ax965@...> (Bob Dale)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:13:50 -0400
Subject: Treif meals after Bar Mitzvahs

There have been concerns expressed at our synagogue about members
who hold Bar Mitvahs and other simchas in the synagogue, and
then hold treif parties afterwards for their guests.  While I think
this is unacceptable and inappropriate, I find it difficult to adopt
the solution some people are proposing:  namely, that if we find out
that a non-kosher celebration has been planned, we tell the family
they can hold their simcha elsewhere.  Has this issue surfaced in other
cities?  What has been done?

This is Bob Dale in Nepean, Ontario


End of Volume 15 Issue 63