Volume 15 Number 66
                       Produced: Tue Oct 11  5:24:08 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Biur Ethrogim
         [Danny Skaist]
Chazaka on an Eruv
         [Jay Bailey]
Eruv and Checking Status
         [Shlomo Engelson]
         [David A Rier]
Eruvin and Jewelry
         [Shaul Wallach]
Forgetting the Eruv
         ["Ilene  M. Miller"]
Kashrus Newsletters
         [Daniel Faigin]
Marriage and Kiddushin
         [Benjamin Boaz Berlin]
Time measurement vol 15 #13
         ["Neil Parks"]


From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 94 09:51 IST
Subject: Biur Ethrogim

:Lon Eisenberg wrote:
:be aware that its time of bi`ur (when you must take it out of your house
:and declare it hefqer [ownerless]) is when no more ethrogim are on the
:trees (I'm not sure of the date when this occurs).

>Joseph Steinberg
>The generally agreed upon date is the end of Shvat (Which i believe is 31
>Jan 95).

I was always under the impression that "Etz Hadar" was identified as the
Esrog tree because the fruit remained from year to year if not picked.
How can there be a date when "no more ethrogim are on the trees" ?



From: Jay Bailey <jbailey@...>
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 14:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Chazaka on an Eruv

While Zomet's assertion that once an eruv is up there is a chazaka that
its up each week, is generally true, it does depend on the community.
Specifically, here on the Upper West Side of Manhattan they finally
finished the eruv and rabbis told their congregations that one should
assume it is NOT up unless they have called the "hot line" to check. In
a city like NY, (and I think in L.A. as well, where I seem to recall a
similar recommendation) there are so many ways that the eruv can be
disrupted: trees, construction, cable guys., phone workers, etc., that
there is always a good chance it will be down.  BTW, so far, in our
third week now, it's doing just fine...

Jay Bailey


From: <engelson@...> (Shlomo Engelson)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:52:22 +0300
Subject: Re: Eruv and Checking Status

>  >From: Zomet <zomet@...>
>  If I am not mistaken, once an Eruv is "up" it has a Chazakka and can be 
>  relied upon on Shabbat, even if you forget to  verify its status before 
>  Shabbat. If however, something has happened during the week which 
>  creates a doubt about the status of the Eruv (snow storm, heavy winds, Arab 
>  neighbors who occasionally cut the wires etc.), the chazakka is 
>  considered as having been damaged and one must check the status of the Eruv 
>  before relying on it again.

This is not correct.  According to R. Whitman, the poseq of the New
Haven Eruv, an Eruv *is not* considered muchzak [presumed] to be up
from week to week, even if it is always up.  Usually, a functioning
Eruv is not kosher at the end of most weeks, and must be repaired.
You cannot use chazaka [presumption] to say that it will be fixed.
Therefore, you must check the status of the Eruv each and every
Friday.  On the other hand, once the Eruv is up when Shabbat starts,
it may be presumed to up all Shabbat, unless there is a storm, heavy
winds, etc.



From: David A Rier <dar6@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Eruv/shul

Regarding the postings about the hardships of women stuck in the house
without an eruv while the men are in shul: here in Washington Hts., we
don't have an eruv, and so it it true it's hard to have Shabbos company
with small kids (ie, most of our friends) unless they live in our bldg.
However, I and lots of other young fathers go to a hashkomo minyan that
allows us to get home in time for our wives to catch a significant
portion of davening at the main minyan (Breuers').  Maybe this would
work for people elsewhere?  David Rier


From: Ezra <zomet@...>
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 10:19:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Eruvin

A number of recent posts have strengthened my impression that certain
sectors of the Torah community feel that "Bnei Torah" should not rely on
an eruv and that an eruv is something from which the "Torah" community
should distance itself. I am unsure whether this is due to the
Halachic complexity of the topic, conservatism or someother reason. 

In light of the above, I would like to refer mjers to a responsa of the
Chatam Sofer (Volume I, Orach Chaim, 99) who was asked whether it is
proper to implement Eruvin. The Chatam Sofer responds by urging all Rabbis
and community leaders to do their utmost to establish an eruv in every
community. He then praises the takkana of eruvin (the gemara attributes it
to Shelomo) which make mitzvah observance easier for Jews rather than
instituting additional chumrot. 

I would strongly recommend learning the entire teshuva, certain parts of 
it are illuminating.

Interestingly enough, at no point in his responsum does the Chatam Sofer 
even entertain the possibility that perhaps some people should not rely 
on an eruv. And by the way, the Chatam Sofer was hardly known as a liberal!



From: Shaul Wallach <F66204@...>
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 94 22:45:05 IST
Subject: Eruvin and Jewelry

     Janice Gelb writes on wearing jewelry and carrying on Shabbat:

>Perhaps I'm wrong, but it was my impression that not wearing a watch
>on Shabbat had to do with the spirit of the day itself, not with a
>prohibition against carrying. I believe jewelry can be worn without
>it being considered carrying.

     According to the law of the Torah, jewelry is not considered a
burden and a woman who goes out on Shabbat wearing jewelry is not
considered to be violating the Shabbat. However, our Rabbis decreed
that no jewelry that can fall off, or be taken off, should be worn,
lest the woman pick it up or take it off to show her friend and carry
it four cubits in the public domain and break the Biblical prohibition
against carrying on the Shabbat. Chapter 6 of Tractate Shabbat of the
Talmud deals with those ornaments which a woman may or may not wear on
Shabbat for this reason.

     It seems that in time, this Rabbinic prohibition became widely
disregarded by the women. Here is, without comment, the relevant
section of the Shulhan `Arukh and the gloss (Hagaha) by the Ram"a
(R. Moshe Isserles) (Shulhan `Arukh Orah Hayyim 303:18):

    ... And now our women have adopted the custom of going out with all
    ornaments. And there are those who say that according to law they
    are forbidden, but since they won't listen, it's better that they
    be mistaken and should not be intentional. And there are those who
    have defended them, saying that they observe this custom according
    to the last opinion that I wrote, that they did not forbid going out
    into a courtyard that does not have an `eruv; and now that we don't
    have a real public domain, all of our public domain is like Karmelit
    and is judged like a courtyard that does not have an `eruv.

    Hagaha: And there are those who say another reason to allow - that
    now ornaments are commonplace and people go out with them even on
    weekdays, and there is no fear that she might take it off and show,
    as it was in their days when they were not used to go out with them
    except on Shabbat and it was not commonplace.

>P.S. You should all be grateful that I am not commenting on Shaul
>Wallach's posting with this topic heading that ended up discussing
>the woman's place in the home :->

    Don't worry - others have already done a good job of it :-). I hope,
though, that things will be clearer after my later followups, including
some that haven't yet appeared as of this moment, so let's be patient
with our overworked moderator in sending them out. :-)




From: "Ilene  M. Miller" <75107.146@...>
Date: 10 Oct 94 16:03:19 EDT
Subject: Forgetting the Eruv

Several recent postings have pointed out the dangers of living in a
place which has an eruv: Many people will forget to check themselves
when visting a locality whic hdoes not have an eruv. Or, even worse,
people will grow up totally unaware of the prohibition against bringing
things outside on Shabbos.

I have the privelege of living in Elizabeth NJ. When our eruv was
established about ten years ago, our mara d'asra (leader) HaRav Pinchas
M. Teitz, shlit"a, instituted a very interesting innovation: Each year,
on one Shabbos per year, the eruv is *deliberately* inoperative. If the
wires were down one week, or it was invalid for some other reason, then
the year's requirement has been met; otherwise, a week would be chosen
(and announced in advance so as to minimize the inconvenience) when the
eruv would be deliberately invalidated (in an easy-to-fix way, to
minimize problems for the following week). Generally, the first or
second Shabbos after Purim is chosen for this purpose, so that it can be
announced to the largest number of people.

Speaking as a resident, I can tell you that this procedure is quite
effective in heightening awareness of the prohibition of taking-out on
Shabbos. Many people, it is true, do get used to carrying in an eruv,
and *may* accidentally carry when they are away for the weekend - but
certainly fewer people than if we did not have this practice. It ensures
that people do have some sort of system for their housekey for that one
Shabbos per year, which is an important security measure in case the
eruv is ever accidentally inoperative. (I wonder how many people get
stranded when their eruv is down because they have no Shabbos belt or
pin or tieclip.) And the children are all quite aware that the
prohibition exists. Some even look forward to that Shabbos, because even
though it makes things a bit incovenient, it makes the day a little
different, and hence a little more exciting.

If you live in an area which already has an eruv, it will probably be
very hard to institute a new innovation such as this. But for those of
you who are planning one, I heartily suggest that you seriously consider
this idea.


From: <faigin@...> (Daniel Faigin)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 11:56:52 -0700
Subject: Kashrus Newsletters

For those of you unfamiliar with Kashrus, here is information on how to
obtain copies. This is from the periodicals portion of the soc.culture.jewish
reading list:

        FOCUS: Kosher products, Kosher food alerts, Kosher foodscience
        FREQUENCY: Five times a year
        SUBSCRIPTION RATES: (USA) $15/1yr $27/2yr $36/3yr
                         (Canada) $20/1yr $36/2yr 
                       (Overseas) $28/1yr $50/2yr
        SUBSCRIPTION ADDRESS: Kashrus Customer Service Department
                P. O. Box 17305/Milwaukee WI 53217
        PUBLISHER: Yeshivas Birkas Reuven/581 Kings Highway/Brooklyn NY 11223 
                * Provides annual guide to hechshers in use.
                * Provides kosher consumer alerts.



From: Benjamin Boaz Berlin <bberlin@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 09:30:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Marriage and Kiddushin

	Thank you to all who responded to my last post, I thought the 
comments insightful and very worthwhile.

	Much of the discussion I read has been on the problems of 
marriage in todays society.  There has also been some discussion about the 
definition of certain words. 

	In that light, can anyone articulate the differences and 
similarities between "marriage" in the legal sense, and Kiddushin in the 
Torah (Jewish) sense?  Thank You.


From: "Neil Parks" <aa640@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 17:14:42 EDT
Subject: Time measurement vol 15 #13

>>: Moshe E. Rappoport <mer@...> said:
>My questions to the readers of this list is, is there a practical
>way to be a modern scientist, while still sticking to a 5744 year old
>universe, at least when talking to other Jews,(with the usual disclaimers
>about 1) the world having been created in an "old" state, 2) The world
>may have aged quickly at some points along the way.)
>I'm actually curious how you cope inwardly with the "apparent
>contradiction" between our Mesorah and modern scientific belief.

There really is no contradiction at all, according to Orthodox Jewish 
scientist Gerald Schroeder (sp?).

I had the privilege of hearing him lecture on the subject just a few months 
ago.  Using Einstein's theory of relativity, he explained how time actually 
passes at different rates of speed at different places in the universe.

The lecture was based on his book, "Genesis and the Big Bang" (which I 
haven't read yet, but plan to.)


End of Volume 15 Issue 66