Volume 15 Number 88
                       Produced: Thu Oct 20  0:48:31 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Chazan Repeating Words
         [David Steinberg]
Halloween "Observance"
         [Daniel N Weber]
Heftza & Gavra
         [Itamar Simon<RENBAUM@...>]
Nachshon Wachsman
         [ Dr. Jeremy Schiff]
Racist thoughts
         [Mordechai Torczyner]
         [Zvi Weiss]
Sex Education
         [Janice Gelb]
Trick or Treat (2)
         [Cheryl Hall, Gena Rotstein]
         [Ira Hammerman]


From: David Steinberg <dave@...>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:32:16 +0100
Subject: Chazan Repeating Words

In response to David Kohl's request for sources concerning a Chazan's 
Repeating himself during Davening, Rav Moshe addresses this in Igros 
Moshe, Aruch Chaim 2 #22.

I will attempt to loosely translate and summarize the first paragraph 
(errors my own)

In the matter of Chazanim who repeat words in Chazaras HaShatz (chazans 
repetition aloud of Shemona Esreh) certainly Ain Ruach Chachamim Nocha 
Heimenu - certainly not acceptable. Earlier authorities have protested 
about the practice to no avail; Chazanim do as chazanim do - even 
religious ones. 

Rav Moshe goes on to differentiate on two levels.  First he analyzes the 
type of repetition.  Repeating a word (or possibly even a phrase) such 
that the word remains in sequence, while not right, is not considered a 
Hefseq - interuption. This could be represented as W1 W2 W3 W3 W4 (where 
Wx represents in word in Shemona Esreh) or possibly even W1 W2 W3 W2 W3 W4.
He contrasts that with repetition such that a word is pulled out of sequence
and repeated eg. W1 W2 W3 W2 W4 which logically appears to be a hefseq.

Rav Moshe further analyzes the impact of the repitition on the meaning of 
the Tefilla - prayer - identifying instances where the repetition does 
not change the meaning, changes the meaning, or garbles the meaning of 
the prayer.

Finally he questions whether to interrupt a Chazan who repeats.  If I 
read the Teshuva correctly, I understood him to say that in general you 
should not stop the Chazan.

Dave Steinberg


From: Daniel N Weber <dweber@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:46:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Halloween "Observance"

This is in reply to a posting by Michael Lipkin regarding that ever 
present autumn question of "What do I do about Halloween?"  Let me share 
with you what we have done over the years.  Absolutely nothing!!  We have 
explained to our children that this is not our holiday (even though some 
Jews do "celebrate" it) and that we have our own holidays in which we get 
dressed up in outrageous outfits (we remind our son that two years 
ago--when he was 8-- he dressed up in his younger sisters Shabbat dress 
and was the most talked about costume for that Purim!).  Most 
importantly, we tell our children that on the holiday when we get dressed 
up we _give_ food to others, especially the poor and hungry, vs. the 
secular world's going up to strangers and demanding that they _receive_ 
food or else!  The kids have internalized these values very well and are 
not upset by not going trick-or-treating.  It does help that we live in 
an observant community and send our children to a Jewish day school.  In 
fact, on the day after Halloween when even many of the Jewish kids bring 
in their goodies, our kids, instead of feeling left out, feel proud that 
they did not participate.  Our kids have learned that they can 
appreciate whatever beauty there is in other people's culture without 
necessarily having to copy it for themselves.  If we have given them 
nothing else in life, the lesson that to be a Jew is not only worthwhile 
but that being different is a value worth cherishing.  One other thing we 
do--we often go to the museum or zoo that day and avoid the Halloween 
begging.  So far, no one has thought ill of us!

Good luck in your struggles with the pressures of the non-Jewish world.  
Hope these ideas are helpful.

Dan Weber


From: Itamar Simon<RENBAUM@...>
Date: Tue,  18 Oct 94 12:23 +0300
Subject: Heftza & Gavra

I am learning now SHVUOT and I am looking for resources about the diferrence
between HEFTZA & GAVRA. Anybody that have somthing about it please sent it to
me to the  address writen below.
					Itamar simon
					email: <itamar@...>


From: <schiff@...> ( Dr. Jeremy Schiff)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:04:39 +0200
Subject: Nachshon Wachsman

Thanks to Moishe Halibard for his posting about his experiences and feelings
at the leviah of Nachshon Wachsman HY'D. I didn't make it to the leviah, but 
shed my tears when I read in Yediot, the morning after, how the Rosh HaShabak,
prior to the operation to free Nachshon, was planning to return him to his 
parents' Shabbat table, his home being just 1.5 km as-the-crow-flies away
from the house where he was being held. In one small act, letting the ish
chamasim (evil man) pull the trigger, Hashem took away from us unimaginable 
simcha, and gave us intolerable grief. It is as if we are being reminded 
how one small mitzvah or one small avera, performed by any Jew, can be 
machria (tip the scales of justice) to determine the fate of Am Yisrael.

Also in Yediot, one commentator (presumably secular) thanked Nachshon's 
parents for teaching the nation how to pray, in their call to all to come 
to the Kotel and spill out all their sympathy, and all their indignation,
in front of the Creator of the Universe. The immeasurable Kiddush Hashem 
that Nachshon's parents have done, in every interview, in every action -
and of course these are people who were not running to make their actions
public - has been a great lesson to us all. Their zechut should be a shield
for us, and by learning from them we should merit to suffer no more
tragedies like this.


From: Mordechai Torczyner <torczynr@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:31:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Racist thoughts

David Charlap stated:
> One is never held guilty for his thoughts, although he should be very
> careful that "wrong" thoughts do not become wrong speech and wrong actions.

Alan Mizrahi responded: 
>I don't think this is completely accurate.  In Parshat Kedoshim, (19:17)
>it says, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart."  Clearly, the
>Torah forbids us from feeling hatred against our fellow Jew, even if we
>just think it, without doing anything about it.

While I believe that there are cases wherein we are held responsible for 
thoughts, idolatry being the example that comes to mind first, Alan's example 
is not necessarily such an instance. His passage is interpreted, within the
context of the rest of the sentence ["[rather] you shall reprimand your 
colleague, and [so] you shall not be held responsible,"] to mean that one is 
supposed to act to prevent the sins of others, rather than simply hate the 
actions that he sees being committed. In that light, this does not appear to 
be a specific injunction against thoughts of hate.


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:39:04 -0400
Subject: Repeating...

There is a Teshuva in the Igrot Moshe where R. Moshe discusses the
issue.  He makes quite clear from the start that he doe not like ANY
sort of repitition... and then discusses the matter in terms of what is
tolerable.  However, I believe that his basic position was that Chazanim
should NOT repeat AT ALL.  The materail is not at my finger tips right
now but I believe that it can be easily found.....



From: <Janice.Gelb@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:56:05 +0800
Subject: Sex Education

In Vol. 15 #79, Adina Sherer says:
>If anything, I would guess that children in the
>religious world have MUCH more exposure to 'the facts of life' than in
>the standard middle class secular world.  The story of finding a baby
>under a cabbage leaf would not sell around here.  And I think that's a
>strong advantage.  It makes having babies, and discussing them, a much
>more natural part of life and conversation, as opposed to this big
>silent mystery that one day must be covered in one massive, awkward

I disagree with this conclusion: just because a lot of babies are 
born in the frum world does not mean that kids are told how. Many 
religious parents and educators because of excessive reticence on 
these topics, do not provide thorough sex education even at more 
advanced ages than 10. 

Case in point: my husband was once invited for Shabbat to a house 
in which he had once briefly dated the daughter (he knew the parents 
well also) and she was now engaged to someone else. She insisted on 
Shabbat afternoon that they talk privately. Turned out she was 
panicked because she and her fiancee had gotten carried away and 
French-kissed, and they were petrified that she was pregnant! 

It turned out that in that community, practically no sex education was
provided until after a couple was engaged. He reassured her she wasn't
pregnant and recommended that her chatan have a chat with his rebbe,
and that she try to get into an earlier kallah class than the one she
was slated for. We were torn between amusement at the false alarm and
sadness that they could have been kept so ignorant.

-- Janice

Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
<janiceg@...>   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 


From: <CHERYLHALL@...> (Cheryl Hall)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:15:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Trick or Treat

Christian schmistian, Pagan schmagen!  The only people I know who
consider Halloween a "religious event" are those who refuse to
participate for "religious" reasons -- some observant Jews and
fundamentalists Christians and maybe a few WICCA practioners, who are
offended by witches costumes :>.

My neighborhood is a diverse, but goyishe, multicultural area. In the
last 4 years when I've been in town and I've distributed candy to an
average of 400 kids between the ages of 3mo and 18yrs. I don't think any
of those kids ( or the parent accompanying them ) looked on this as any
kind of a religious action.

It all about getting dressed up, and getting treats.... not even,in my
experience,about tricks. This year I'll be away on business, but I don't
worry that my neighbors' kids and their friends will vandalize anything.
The lights will be off, and they'll pass by.

We know the goyishe calendar is all screwed up.... they just put Purim
in the Fall!

Cheryl Hall
Long Beach CA USA

From: <JSF@...> (Gena Rotstein)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94  18:45:31 EDT
Subject: Trick or Treat

Michael Lipkin voices a concern about living in a prodominantly
non-Jewish world.  And having to deal with the issues that arise.  In
this case it is Halloween.  I grew up in a small Jewish community on the
praries where everyone celebrated Halloween, not out of religious
beliefs but because the holiday has become so secularized that it
doesn't really hold the original connotation that it once held.

I am not saying that participating in the holiday is right or wrong, but
rather, if the true meaning is lost to the giant majority than is the
issue of not participating really a relevant issue?

Michael also said that he would participate so that the kids would at
least get kosher candy, well, if they are going to participate in a
pagan holiday, how much does it mean to them to get kosher candy?

Perhaps I am simplifying the matter to extremes, but the only solution
to his problem seems that if he is so concerned about dealing with
non-Jewish religions whether or not the religiosity is still important
then he said it himself... make Alyah.




From: Ira Hammerman <ELTA%<ILNCRD@...>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 22:54 IST
Subject: Wheelchairs

The following is a quote from the book "Practical Medical Halacha" by
Fred Rosner, M.D. and Rabbi Moses D. Tendler, published by the Medical-d
Dental Section of the Association of Orthodox Jewish Scientists, printed
by Feldheim Publishers:

"Subject: Use of a cane or crutches or walker or wheelchair on the
Sabbath and Yom Tov.
Question: Is it permitted to go out into a public throughfare
(reshuth harabbim) with a cane or crutches or a walker or a
wheelchair on the Sabbath? What restrictions, if any, are there?

Answer: If locomotion is impossible without them, the above mechanical
aids are permitted on the Sabbath, even on a public thoroughfare.

Comment: If a paralyzed or lame person cannot walk without a cane or
crutches or a walker or a wheelchair or their like, he is permitted to
go out on the Sabbath using these mechanical aids. They are treated in
halacha like his shoes or boots. If, however, they are used to steady
the gait of someone who can manage to walk unaided, then it is
considered as if he is carrying the mechanical aid and it is prohibited
on the Sabbath.
	On Yom Tov, carrying in public does not pose a halachic problem.
However, a mechanized wheelchair requires an electric motor to be
started, an activity prohibited on the Sabbath or on Yom Tov. Even if a
non-Jew turns on the motor, there is a real concern for
misinterpretation by others who will think that a Jew started the
instrument (mar'ith ayin). Hence, the use of an electric wheelchair on
the Sabbath or Yom Tov is prohibited.

Sources: Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayim #301:15, 16 & 17 "

A hope that is helpful.
			--- Ira Hammerman
			email: elta%<ilncrd@...>


End of Volume 15 Issue 88