Volume 17 Number 59
                       Produced: Fri Dec 30  1:30:19 1994

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

A new baby
         [Marc Meisler]
         [Esther R Posen]
Another Note On Kashrut
         [Esther R Posen]
Army and limud Torah
         [Leah Zakh]
Bat mitzvah
         [Nadine Bonner]
Bat Mitzvah
         [Ari Z. Zivotofsky]
         [Harry Weiss]
E-mail address for Kabbalah software
         [Avi Feldblum]
Earlier and Latter Authorities
         [Michael J Broyde]
Hallel on Yom Hazmaut
         [Jeffrey Woolf]
Hasagat Gevul
         [Lee Buckman]
Hilchata K'Batrai
         [Leah Zakh]
Interesting question
         [Yechiel Pisem]
Rabbi of a later era can't dispute
         [Ari Shapiro]
Sheirut Leumi, etc.
         [Zvi Weiss]
Sons and Daughters
         [Doni Zivotofsky]
Zip Code
         [Lon Eisenberg]


From: Marc Meisler <mmeisler@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 11:21:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A new baby

I would like to announce that my wife, Sara, last night gave birth to a
bouncing baby girl weighing 7 pounds 13 ounces.  This morning she was
given the name Devorah Leah after my wife's grandmother and aunt.

Marc Meisler                   1001 Spring St., Apt. 423    
<mmeisler@...>         Silver Spring, MD  20910


From: <eposen@...> (Esther R Posen)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 09:23:52 -0500
Subject: Affiliations

The discussions on affiliations versus observance reminds me of
something I heard once that went something like this - "Jews are Jews,
rabbis are Orthodox, Conservative or Reform".



From: <eposen@...> (Esther R Posen)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:50:11 -0500
Subject: Another Note On Kashrut

In the kosher establishments I frequent in New Jersey there is now a new 
"Kosher Certification" hanging on the walls.  It is a state government 
supervised posting, I believe, and it states whether the establishment is 
kosher under the Orthodox, Conservative or Reform version of "kosher".  I am 
not sure what the history of this new poster is, but I believe it is an 
outcome of some court case that centered around whether the Orthodox had a 
patent on the word "Kosher".  So now the establishments need to post - kosher 
according to whom.  There is other information included on the poster like 
mashgiach tmidi, dairy or meat or both served or for sale etc.

Just FYI.



From: Leah Zakh <zakh@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 18:06:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Army and limud Torah

>From my research into the issue I remember reading that  the Torah of a 
talmid Chacham defends him and thus he is not required to pay for city 
walls (by parallel serve in IDF). I have a great respect for those who 
Oskim Be Torah, but can someone answer the following question: why did so 
many yeshivot relocated out of Eretz Israel during the Gulf War? Why did 
some many from the yeshiva velt rushed to leave the country? If this is 
their heter, shouldn't they at least believe in , and if they don't how 
can they use it?
Leah Zakh

You can reach me at <zakh@...> or


From: <n.bonner@...> (Nadine Bonner)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 94 04:04:00 UTC
Subject: Bat mitzvah

 Twenty years ago when I was "coming of age" in Atlanta, Orthodox girls
did not have a bat mitzvah.  Since I was the first girl in the
synagogue to reach that stage, the rabbis came up with a ceremony they
called "Aishes Chayel."  We had it in the social hall of the synagogue.
I had spent months studying with Rabbi Emanuel Feldman, the rabbi of the
shul, and he tested me on my knowledge, and I wrote a speech (the
subject matter has escaped me), which I delivered. Several younger girls
stood behind me holding candles (which made my mother very nervous), and
they read the Aishes Chayel. It was all very moving.  The Sisterhood
presented me with my first pair of Shabbat candlesticks.
  It seemed like a good idea at the time, and more genuine in many ways
than imitating a male ritual that really didn't apply.
  They kept is up for quite a while, but once people moved in from
communities where girls had bat mitzvah, they dropped it.

From: <azz@...> (Ari Z. Zivotofsky)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 09:45:24 -0500
Subject: Bat Mitzvah

For a very enthusiastic endorsement of bat mitzvah celebrations see: Rav
Ovadia Yosef, Yabbia Omer, Orach Chaim 6:29:4.


From: <harry.weiss@...> (Harry Weiss)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 22:27:51 -0800
Subject: Cemetery

Dov Shapiro asks about a "frum section" of the cemetery.  
[While Dov has made it clear that he is NOT talking about making sure
that there is a Halakhic section, as that is already the status of the
cemetary, I've included this response to help make people aware that in
many areas, getting a Halakhic section is still a battle. Mod.]

Here in Sacramento we are working to obtain a Halachik section in the
cemetery.  This does not mean that the frumness of the deceased is
evaluated.  A halachic section means that only Jews may be buried.  No
"patrilineal Jews" may be buried.  A proper Tahara is required.  No
above ground mausoleum and no burial of urns with ashes from those who
were cremated are allowed.

I know that Har Hamenuchot in Yerushalyim does have different sections
for different groups.  Perhaps one of our Israeli correspondents would
have further details.



From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 16:36:41 -0500
Subject: Re: E-mail address for Kabbalah software

Hayim Hendeles writes:
> You mentioned in a previous post that the E-mail address for
> Kaballah software was:
> <kaballah@...>

I spelled it wrong. The correct address is:


Avi Feldblum


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 10:09:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Earlier and Latter Authorities

The assertion that a latter authority cannot dispute the ruling of an 
earlier authority, in post talmudic times, is only a custom and not a 
rule; serious authorities of the latter era occassionally breach that 
custom.  For an example of this in a modern authority, see Iggrot Moshe 
YD 1:101 (at page 186) where Rav Moshe Feinstein states "Of what 
significance is it if we resolve disputes at times contrary to the ruling 
of one of the gaonim, the achronim; For certain we are permitted to to 
argue with the achronim and even on occasion with rishonim when we have 
strong proofs and good reasons."


From: Jeffrey Woolf <F12043@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 19:34:40 IST
Subject: Hallel on Yom Hazmaut

I dread to even raise the theoretical issue of the state of Hallel on YH
in the event of a tragedy. However, I find Dr Parness' arguments
somewhat off the mark. The best parallel for YH is either Megillat
Taanit, whose holidays celebrate various occasions during the Second
Temple period and which went out of use after the destruction because
its context was lost. The only exceptions were Purim and Hanukkah which
were the results of Sanhedrin acytion and therefore not revokeable. The
other possibility is the Minor Fasts which were in disuetude during the
Second Temple and reborn afterwards. And may God Save us from any
further need to ponder this question. Jeffrey Woolf

Dept of Talmud Bar Ilan University


From: <RABLEEBUC@...> (Lee Buckman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 22:46:00 -0500
Subject: Hasagat Gevul

I'm looking for source material on "hasagat gevul" to determine whether
or not a not-for-profit Jewish funeral home would be permitted
halachically (and should seek rabbinic support) to start a business even
though it would take away business and possibly put out of business a
not-Jewishly-owned (but run by Jews) funeral home that charges
competitive prices in the funeral industry but exorbitant prices
compared to what things actually cost and that encourages non-halachic
funeral practices in order to jack up the price of a funeral.  Besides
the gemara in Bava Batra 21b and a few teshuvot of R.  Feinstein, can
anyone suggest some other teshuvot or analysis on the topic?

-Lee Buckman


From: Leah Zakh <zakh@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 17:49:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hilchata K'Batrai

in MJ 17:51 Mr. Gevaryahu wrote that Sephardim do not follow the rule of 
Holchata K'Batrai. That is not quite correct.Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, 
shlita who is one of the foremost sephardi poskim in Israel nowerdays 
DOES hold  "Hilkhata k'Batrai" and paskins accoerding to the Ben Ish Chai 
and the Kav-HaChaim. R' Ovadia Yosef, Shlita on the other hand goes 
according to the Rov. Thus neither derech of psak is ruled out in the 
Sephardi community.
Leah Zakh

You can reach me at <zakh@...> or 212-779-1939


From: Yechiel Pisem <ypisem@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 22:03:29 -0500 (est)
Subject: Interesting question

Today in class, my Rebbi said that Pope Peter was in fact a Jew in 
disguise sent by the Tannaim to help insure the integrity of the Jewish 
religion.  Has anyone ever heard such a thing?

Kol Tuv,
Yechiel Pisem


From: <m-as4153@...> (Ari Shapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 20:26:30 -0500
Subject: Rabbi of a later era can't dispute

<BTW, I was taught that the Gr"a was considered an exception to this
<rule. In terms of halchic authority he is to be considered on par with
<the rishonim despite his historical context. Does anyone know a

The Gra was not really an exception, there is no hard and fast rule.
Acharonim can argue on Rishonim they usually don't because they felt
that they were not as great as the rishonim.  The shaages aryeh (late
1700's) in his commentary on Rosh Hashana argues on Rashi and Tosafos
all the time.  The Gra was thought of by all as being on the level of
the Rishonim therefore his arguments with the rishonim are given weight.


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 09:11:53 -0500
Subject: Sheirut Leumi, etc.

In reading Yaakov Menken's postings on Sheirut Leumi, I fail to
understand why he CONTINUES to "place" Sheirut Leumi women on Army bases
when the respondents have made clear that Sheirut Leumi women do NOT
serve there -- at least, they are not required to serve there.  We have
seen that Sheirut Leumi has women in Tehilla, residential schools, etc.
Regardless of the moral atmosphere (or lack of same) in the Army,
continuing to cite that as the basis for opposing Sheirut Leumi as well
as casting aspersions upon the moral character of women who DO such
service is simply wrong.  Persisting in this even when others have
pointed out the error (to the extent of citing R.  Aharon Rotter's
comments) causes one to question the intellectual honesty here.  Yes,
the Chazon Ish opposed Sheirut Leumi.  Yes, people who do not wish to
serve have a basis for refusing to do so.  BUT given the REALITY of
Sheirut Leumi (not the fantasy that Yaakov seems to paint), is that
P'sak truly applicable.  Was the Chazon Ish REALLY opposed to women
serving in Hospitals, schools, etc. when they were not even on Army



From: <DONIZ@...> (Doni Zivotofsky)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 23:06:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Sons and Daughters

I found Elad's "apologetics" for an apparently Chauvanistic remark
somewhat amusing. It sounded like the explanation was that it is a
blessing to have a daughter, too, since she may grow up to marry a
worthy individual (read - man=son) in a talmid chochom.  It still sounds
like her inherent worth is minimal and that she is only as good as the
man she can marry (and his Torah knowledge) 		Doni Z


From: <eisenbrg@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 08:51:29 IST
Subject: Zip Code

My family moved to Har Nof in the summer.  Since then, we've been trying
to find out what our zip code is, but nobody seems to know (don't tell
me I should have gone to the post office to find out, because when we
lived in Rehovot and one of our neighbors did that, the clerk said "I
don't know.  Why don't you ask one of your neighbors?").

Now I can thank Shoshana Benjamin for providing it.  When she gave the
information about the Torah code software, it happens that the Israeli
address she provided is the building next to mine (I hope that the zip
code doesn't change between our buildings!).


End of Volume 17 Issue 59