Volume 18 Number 36
                       Produced: Tue Feb  7 22:00:52 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

7 clean days
         ["Lon Eisenberg"]
Animals inthe Torah
         [Larry Israel]
         [Asher Breatross]
Fish After Meat.
         [Ari Belenky]
Jewish Environmentalism
         [David L. Feiler]
Keys on Shabbat
         [Leah Zakh]
Lashon Hara
         [Eli Turkel]
Mikvaot for Unmarried Women
         [Leah Zakh]
Required before Optional?
         [Andrew Pessin]
Rosh Chodesh
         [Chaim Steinmetz]
Sefer Raziel
         [Shai Israel Mandel]
Selling Land in Israel to non-Jews
         [Mordechai Horowitz]


From: "Lon Eisenberg" <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 08:03:21 +0000
Subject: Re: 7 clean days

The following are some interesting facts I learned yesterday in the
weekly family purity [tahorath hamishpahah] class given by Rabbi Leff in
Har Nof, with respect to counting the additional days before counting
the 7 clean days:

1. In cases of infertility, the 5 days may be changed to 4 (not elimintated).
2. A bride counts only 4 (not 5) days [one of the 5 days is related to having
   relations before the period began, which is not applicable to a bride].
3. If the husband or wife is going on an extended trip (away from the other!)
   only 4 days need be counted if 5 would delay relations till after the
4. In the case of abstention due to halakha before the start of the bleeding,
   the 5 days are completley waived!  Counting the 7 days begins whenever the
   bleeding stops.  Examples:
   a) Either the husband or wife was in morning.
   b) Bleeding started, they started abstaining, then found out it wasn't
      really her period, and then her real period came.
   c) They abstained because of medical reasons (he said to CYLOR on this one).

If I've made any mistakes in understanding or transmitting what Rabbi Leff
said, I appologize.

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658438 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: Larry Israel <VSLARRY@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 20:42:48 +0200
Subject: Re: Animals inthe Torah

The answer to which book of the T'nach has no mention of animals, is Ruth.

A list of a mention of an animal in each of the other books:

Genesis        49:14
Exodus         13:13
Leviticus      11:4
Numbers        16:15
Deuteronomy    22:4
Joshua         6:21
Judges         15:15
I Samuel       15:3
II Samuel      6:6
I Kings        13:28
II Kings       6:25
Isaiah         21:7
Jeremiah       22:19
Ezekiel        23:20
Hosea          4:16
Joel           2:4
Amos           2:15
Obadiah        1:4
Jonah          2:1
Micah          1:8
Nahum          3:2
Habakuk        1:14
Zephania       1:10
Hagai          2:22
Zacharia       9:9
Malachi        3:20
Psalms         8:9
Proverbs       27:26
Job            24:3
Song of Songs  1:9
Ruth           *******
Lamentations   1:6
Ecclesiastes   9:12
Esther         6:8
Daniel         8:3
Ezra           2:67
Nehemia        7:68
I Chronicles   5:21
II Chronicles  9:1


From: <ash@...> (Asher Breatross)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:53:58 -0500
Subject: Chumrot

On the issue of Chumrot (or Chumros, whatever your havara is)  I am reading
the memoirs of the Mechaber of the Torah Temima called "Mekor Boruch". The
Torah Temima was the son of the Aruch Hashulchan. The third part of this
work is devoted to the Aruch Hashulchan. At the beginning of that section
(where I am now) he talks about the paintstaking and meticulous efforts
that his father and other Poskim went into to look for Heteirim. I
recommend that the Sefer in general be learnt because one can gain much
from it (and also be entertained by it). But, in particular reference to
this issue I recommend that this part of the work be reviewed so that the
whole craze for Chumrot can be put into its proper perspective.


From: <belenkiy@...> (Ari Belenky)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 23:37:13 PST
Subject: Fish After Meat.

David Maslow asked:
"While I am aware that meat and fish should not be eaten on the same plate or
with the same silverware, is there any restriction on eating fish after
meat, with separate dishes and utensils, eg. fish after a beef-stock soup?
Also, if separate forks were provided and the fish was in a separate dish, is
there any problem with having them on the same tray?"

A celebrated passage from Tractate Hullin (90a?) says that "it is
permissible to eat fish on the plate for meat with milky sauce" !!  Why?
Because "Torah spares money of Israeli people"!  There are two examples
in the Torah to prove the last statement.

Ari Belenky


From: David L. Feiler <David_L._Feiler@...>
Date: 7 Feb 95 13:06:56 EDT
Subject: Jewish Environmentalism

>From Mordechai Horowitz:
>I have a friend who will be running a program at the Spitzfer conference
>on Jewish environmentalism.  The problem is finding the Jewish part of
>the issue.  Any suggestions?  If you could add in anything regarding
>how halachic Jews should act in the American political system regarding
>the issue.

 In addition to the Schwatz and Rakover references already mentioned another 
source on the Jewish approach to Ecology can be found in Nachum Amsel, The 
Jewish Encyclopaedia of Moral and Ethical Issues, published by Jason Aronson, 
1994.  pp 61-64.  

[Not bad, two out of three of the references are mail-jewish
members. Mod.]

 This short review cites numerous references to Rambam, Hachinuch, Gemara and 
Shulchan Aruch on the topics of Bal Tashchit (needless waste of resources), 
City Planning and land, water and air pollution.

 His conclusion is that Jewish Ecology predates modern ecology by several 
thousand years!

David Feiler


From: Leah Zakh <zakh@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:25:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Keys on Shabbat

While looking up halacha in Shmirat Shabbat Kehilchata I came across a 
psak by Harav Neuwerth regarding carreing keys outside an eruv on 
Shabbat (I don't have the sefer near by; if anyone wants to know send me 
a private post and I'll look up the exact l0cation). He stated that one 
should make a belt where the key serves as the clasp for the belt and 
then one can wear it on Shabbat. Please look up the SSS for more precise 
instructions. Rav Neuwirth further states that those who make their keys 
into jewllery may do according to some poskim and should not be rebuked. 
My question is the following: Why is carryying a key as a clasp of the 
belt any better then making it into jewllery? (This is a real question, 
not a judgement on the SSS psak chas vechalila). 2) While visiting Crown 
Heights i noticed that many women wore those "belts" made of string 
inside their coats and took them off as soon as they got to shul. The 
belts seemed not to serve any purpose whatsoever (except for carrying the 
key). I am sure that these ppl have a relyable psak which they follow, 
but this seems to reinforce the question: Why is a useless belt better 
then jewllery that serves an asthetic purpose?
Leah Zakh
You can reach me at <zakh@...> or 718-601-5939


From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:34:28 -0500
Subject: Lashon Hara

    Elie Rosenfeld writes

>>  I think this is an excellent issue.  Can a distinction be made between
>>  lashon hara about a private individual, and lashon hara about a public
>>  official or an institution?  I think the answer may be yes.

    The Hafetz Chaim explicitly states that there is no difference between
individuals and groups in terms of lashon hara. Thus to speak lashon hara
about litvaks, hasidim, haredim, modern orthodox, sefardim etc is
strictly forbidden. What constitutes lashon hara is a different matter.
One is sometimes permitted to speak about another person or group if
there is some purpose to it, I again refer to the books on the topic for
details (or LOR) . However, there is no fundamental difference between
individuals and groups.



From: Leah Zakh <zakh@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 13:59:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Mikvaot for Unmarried Women

I have been away from my e-mail for a while and thus am answering an old 
post. This issue came up in a shiur I attended in seminary and the Rav 
answered it in the following manner. The Akeidat Itzhak was asked whether 
it was appropriate to make the women in the local brothel go to the mikva 
so that their clients would at least not violate this issur karet. The 
Akeidat Itzhak answered absolutely not, b/c it will seem as if their 
activity was condoned. The same would go for a couple who are not 
married, but live together.
Leah Zakh
You can reach me at <zakh@...> or 718-601-5939


From: Andrew Pessin <pessina@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 12:08:24 EST
Subject: Required before Optional?

why should anyone demand that people do all the required things before
being allowed to do the optional?  would it really be making a
"political point", as one person suggested, for someone who didn't learn
very much to dance with the Torah?  It seems to me better to allow, and
encourage, as many people as possible to do any and everything they want
to do and can do.  After all, if someone wants to dance with the Torah,
that may well be the first step towards wanting to actually read it and
then follow it.
	Jewish identity, for practical purposes anyway, is defined by
the number and sorts of practices one observes.  Whether those practices
are required or merely optional is irrelevant to the goal of getting
more people to identify themselves as Jewish.


From: <CSTEINMETZ@...> (Chaim Steinmetz)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 20:49:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Rosh Chodesh

the fact that women should not work on Rosh chodesh is found in pirke
drabbi elazaer (44|) and Rashi to TB Megillah 22b, s.v.  "Roshei
Chodashim". It is attributed to the fact that the women refused to
participate in making the golden calf. I once heard a good explanation
of the connection in the name of Rabbi Steinwurtzel a"h, who said the
reason why they were rewarded with keeping Rosh Chodesh is because they
had faith that Moshe would come, even though things looked bleak. this
is similar to Rosh Chodesh which essentialy is showing our belief in the
cyclicle nature of life; that even when things looks bleak and have
disappeared like the moon does every month, we should be confident of a
new begining. On a pshat level, the reason why women don't work on Rosh
Chodesh is because this is a zecher of the fact that during the time of
The Beit Hamikdashh all people would not work on a day of a korban
tzibbur (Tos. Pesachim 50a s.v. "Makom")

Chaim Steinmetz


From: <mandes@...> (Shai Israel Mandel)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 11:58:16 -0500
Subject: Sefer Raziel

I have a question for all of you. In a jewish book store I picked up a
mini (1 inch square) copy of 'Sefer Raziel'. I would like to know more
about this book. I am especially interseted in its history and the
circumstances of its being recorded.

I am told that it is supposed to be "segula", or an amulet. What are
some other things that are used as such? What exactly is the meaning
behind them? How do they work?

[See also:  Raziel ha-Malach [v4n52-v4n53]. Mod.]

Awaiting Redemption,
+  Shai Israel Mandel                 +  <mandes@...>                 B"H 
+   Information Technology Services   +  <mandels@...>         
+   Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  +  <mandes@...>


From: Mordechai Horowitz <BR00318@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 13:58:21 ECT
Subject: Selling Land in Israel to non-Jews

I hope I haven't missed an earlier discussion of this topic, but I was
wondering how one could sell the land of Israel to gentiles for the
heter Mechira.  As this is a practice, largely of religious Zionists,
who hold that there is a positive commandment to settle the land of
Israel. Also is there not a prohibition, held by all, of selling land
to gentiles no matter what.


End of Volume 18 Issue 36