Volume 18 Number 59
                       Produced: Sun Feb 26 11:08:00 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Last call for the mail.jewish Purim edition
         [Sam Saal]
Names for Purim Shpiel
         [Gad Frenkel]
Pentecost (3)
         [Lou Waller, Susan Slusky, Finley Shapiro]
Shmitta Produce outside of Israel
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Shukeling (5)
         [Chaim Steinmetz, Shai Israel Mandel, Harry Weiss, Ezrah
Dabbah, Eliyahu Teitz]
The Name "Issur"
         [Ben Rothke]
Translating Hebrew Terms into English
         [Evelyn C Leeper]
Untranslated Hebrew
         [Andrew Greene]
Va'yah'kel-Purim Me'nayin?
         [Mordechai E Lando]


From: <saal@...> (Sam Saal)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 23:29:19 -0500
Subject: Last call for the mail.jewish Purim edition

Mishenichnas Adar, marbim b'Purim Torah.

This is the last call for submissions for the Purim edition of
mail.jewish.  Please get your parodies and other Purim Torah to me by
the 9th of Adar so I have time to edit the edition.


Marvin B simcah for
Sam Saal
Purim edition editor


From: Gad Frenkel <0003921724@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 11:42 EST
Subject: Names for Purim Shpiel

Let's not forget that lovely young couple Beth Kesay and Asher Yotzar (I
believ that they were married in Flushing, NY).


From: Lou Waller <Louis.Waller@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:08:59 +1000
Subject: Pentecost

"Pentecost" is a direct borrowing from the Greek; it means fiftieth (day
or feast), according to the Shorter O. E.D. That source states that it
is a name of Hellenistic origin for the Feast of Weeks-Shavuot.

It is the name of a Christian festival observed on the 7th Sunday after
Easter; the Nt reference is Acts ii. In England, it is still called Whit
(ie, White) Sunday. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable states that
that name was adopted because "It was one of the great seasons for
baptism and the candidates wore white garments.."  The 50 day parallel
suggests adoption and adaptation.

[Similar respons from Constance Stillinger <cas@...>,
some additional material in the following two submissions. Mod]

From: <segs@...> (Susan Slusky)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 09:24:03 EST
Subject: Pentecost

In response to Laurie Solomon's question (and in hopes that no one will
slam me for putting such alien material into m.j.)

The Christian Pentecost is closely related to Shavuoth.  According to
the Christian Bible, Jesus was killed on Good Friday, which was the 1st
day of Pesach. Pentecost occured on a Sunday, seven (not five as Laurie
said) weeks later. This would make it Shavuoth.  It was on Pentecost
that Jesus' disciples experienced a revelation from the Holy Spirit,
i.e. on the same day that they, as Jews, were remembering and
celebrating the revelation on Sinai.  The word Pentecost comes from the
Greek for fifty, not five, and thus counts the fifty days from the 1st
day of Pesach or from Good Friday depending on whose Pentecost and whose
revelation you are referencing.

I've seen it used as an English (Greek?) translation for Shavuoth.  I
think in the past, more Christians celebrated or at least knew about
Pentecost so the word was familiar to them and connected their holy day
to ours. Nowadays, most Christians aren't well educated enough in their
own traditions to know what Pentecost is. The most common use of the
word is to refer to Pentecostal Christians who seek revelations by the
Holy Spirit.

Susan Slusky

From: Finley Shapiro <Finley_Shapiro@...>
Date: 22 Feb 1995 22:37:29 U
Subject: Pentecost

I looked it up in The Oxford English Dictionary, where it is spelled
Pentecost not Pentacost.  Some direct quotes are below, but in summary,
Pentecost is a Greek name for our holiday of Shavuoth, which has been
brought into English.  In addition, the Christian Bible describes an
important event as happening on Shavuoth, and this event is called the
Pentecost.  I'm not quite sure what the event was, but Christians
commemorate it on the seventh Sunday after Easter, and this day is also
called Pentecost.  (We have previously noted on this list the probable
link between the names Easter and Esther.)

Here are some direct quotes from The Oxford English Dictionary under

1.  A name of Hellenistic origin for the Jewish harvest festival (called
in the Old Testament the Feast of Weeks) observed on the fiftieth day of
the OMER, i.e. at the conclusion of seven weeks from the offering of the
wave-sheaf, on the second day of the Passover.

(examples given of its use from c. 1000 and the 1300's)

2.  A festival of the Christian Church observed on the seventh Sunday
after Easter, in commemoration of the descent of the Holy Spirit upon
the disciples on the day of Pentecost (Acts ii.); the day of this

(examples given of its use from c. 1000 and the 1300's)

3.  fig. in allusion to the gift of the Holy Spirit or the circumstances
attending it recorded in Acts ii.

4.  The particular day that the Christian feast of Pentecost
commemorates, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the apostles (Acts ii).


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 08:14:12 +0000
Subject: Re: Shmitta Produce outside of Israel

It is true that it is improper to export shemitah fruit and also true
that once exported it is a mizvah to eat it; however, we must not forget
that it has various restrictions due to its holiness.  For one, it is
prohibited to buy and sell it!  So how does someone in America obtain
this fruit from the store (to prevent it from being purchased by a
gentile and mistreated)?

The answer is through one or more of the following permitted ways:
1. as a gift: Pay a little more than usual for other items and ask the store
   owner to give you the shemitah fruit as a gift (yes, this is a legal
   but we've beaten that issue to death already).
2. Pay for other items together with the shemitah fruit so that none of the
   money you pay is distinguishable as being payment for the fruit.
3. Pay by credit card or check.

By the way, if the owner of the store is a gentile, I'm not sure whether
or not the prohibition of buying the fruit applies.  Can anyone help
with respect to this issue?

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5658438 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: <CSTEINMETZ@...> (Chaim Steinmetz)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 19:06:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Shukeling

A good source for the reasons given for shuckeling is Yitzchak Zimmer"s
article in Sidra no. 5, 1989. It is the Kuzari in (2:80) who says there
weren't enough books, and therefore people had to lean in and out to
read. One source not cited by Zimmer is the Siddur Hagra (page 571) that
we shuckel in order to stay awake during davening!

Chaim Steinmetz

From: <mandes@...> (Shai Israel Mandel)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 11:05:45 -0500
Subject: Shukeling

Another possibility for the origin of shukeling (and still a mighty good
argument for it) has to do with circulation. Standing for long periods
or even sitting for long periods gives different parts of your body "The
Bees" (I am not quite sure of the medical term, but I am refering to
when your legs fall asleep). If you move around it sure does help {;-)

Awaiting Redemption,
+  Shai Israel Mandel                 +  <mandes@...>                 B"H 
+   Information Technology Services   +  <mandels@...>         
+   Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  +  <mandes@...>

From: <harry.weiss@...> (Harry Weiss)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 23:34:29 -0800
Subject: Shukeling

I remember a story I was told when I was in High School many years ago.
Some great Rabbi (I don't remember who, maybe it was the Chofetz Chaim)
went over to someone in the study hall and demanded that he leave
because he was not Jewish.  The others verified that this person who
appeared Jewish was not Jewish.  When they asked the Rabbi how he knew,
the response was that he did not Shukle when he prayed.  Maybe someone
out there knows more about this story.


From: <EDABBAH@...> (Ezrah Dabbah)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:34:26 -0500
Subject: Shukeling

In most of our Sephardic shuls, shukling is not seen. Where you may see
an individual shukling, he probably picked it up from an ashkenaic
influence. All of the recent newcomers to our community from the old
country stand straight without any movement whatsoever.

From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 14:26:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Shukeling

the vilna goan is of the opinion that one should not shukl during
shmoneh esrey ( possibly because one might be bowing at the end of a
bracha when one should be standing erect ).

eliyahu teitz


From: Ben Rothke <ber@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 14:26:33 PST
Subject: The Name "Issur"

Where does the yiddish name "Issur" originate?  The hebrew trans. means
forbidden.  Isn't it odd that we should give such a name?



From: Evelyn C Leeper <ecl@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:09:54 -0500
Subject: Translating Hebrew Terms into English

[Please folks, try and translate all non-standard hebrew terms into
english. Mod.]

Reminder: not all of us understand Hebrew terms, and I thought there
were going to be translations of the non-universal ones.  For example, I
counted fifteen words in the following that I didn't understand.

On Feb 3, 10:58, Israel Botnick wrote:
> Subject: Are Sermons Considered a Hefsek

> As Isaac Balbin pointed out, a sermon given before musaph may cause
> a problem of hefsek.
> According to the Rambam (seder tefillot col hashana) the shaliach tzibbur
> is required to say kaddish before each shmona esreh. Therefore, the kaddish
> before musaph should be said together with the shemona esreh of
> musaph. According to this, a sermon before musaph is not a problem since
> it doesn't interrupt the kaddish and musaph.
> According to other opinions though (quoted in mishna brura 25:59 and 55:22),
> the kaddish before musaph is associated with ashrei and the other psalms
> and psukim that are said before musaph. The kaddish should be said right
> after uvenucho yomar. According to this opinion, a sermon before musaph
> would be an interruption between uvenucho yomar and the kaddish (Assuming
> the kaddish is said after the sermon and not before).
> I once heard from Rav Herschel Schachter that the Maharam Schick has a
> teshuva regarding when the sermon should be. His conclusion is that we
> basically follow the opinion that the kaddish is associated with the
> shmona esreh of musaph, so the sermon can be before musaph. But if
> possible it is better to satisfy all opinions and have it after krias
> hatora.
> Israel Botnick
>-- End of excerpt from Israel Botnick

Evelyn C. Leeper | +1 908 957 2070 | <Evelyn.Leeper@...>


From: <Andrew_Marc_Greene@...> (Andrew Greene)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:05 -0400
Subject: Untranslated Hebrew

In MJ-18:58, Meir Shinnar writes:

> b) Does the Rabbanut have the status of mara d'athra?  If it does, to
> what extent is one allowed, and perhaps obligated, to accept all the
> heterim of the Rabbanut, especially befarhesia, to the extent that one
> does not have a clear, well defined minhag against it?  For example, if
> invited to dine at a restaurant with a Rabbanut hechsher, by not
> accepting because of questions about the kashrut, would one be motzi
> la'az and o'ver against the authority of the mara d'athra? (As a side
> note, being motzi la'az on the Rabbanut and meheze keyohara are two
> aveirot that seem to have become accepted.  A number of the stories
> about Rabbanut hechsherim did not even consider that there may be
> heterim involved).

Could someone please translate befarhesia, motzi la'az, o'ver (which I
assume is related to an aveira?), and meheze keyohara?  Also, later in the
same article is the term "Rabbanut HaMekomit."


- Andrew Greene


From: Mordechai E Lando <landom1@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:46:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Va'yah'kel-Purim Me'nayin?

Dov Ettner's dvar torah on the roshei tayvos of zahav, kesef, and
n'cho'shes is very nice.  However, I believe he omitted Purim.  In the
words of the gemorrah "maiy shai'yer d'hai shai'yer"?

Having been born on zayin adar, my bris was on purim.  As I result, I am
sensitive to slights to my holiday.  Incidentally, the name moshe
mordechai probably was first given to someone born on zayin adar and
covenanted on Purim.

Mordechai E. Lando ha'm'chu'nah Yukum  


End of Volume 18 Issue 59