Volume 18 Number 64
                       Produced: Thu Mar  2  1:41:08 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Book Request - Toras HaOleh by Ramah
         [Chaim Schild]
Calf Found Alive in a Shechted Cow
         [Anya Finegold]
Chillul Shabbat for non-jews
         [Jack Stroh]
Electronic\Magnetic codings of Hashem's Name
         [Reuven Weiser]
Fish and dairy products
         [Sam Duchoeny]
Is "melacha" masculine or feminine?
         [Neil Parks]
Jewish Belief in Afterlife
Meat & Fish - MJ v18#58
         [Yehudah Edelstein]
Meat and Fish
         [Alan Mizrahi]
Medicine in the Gemara
         [Ezrah Dabbah]
Nefesh Hachaim
         [Josh Berkowitz]
         ["Joe Abeles"]
Rishonim and Homosexual Poetry
         [Mordechai Horowitz]
Trope Reference
         [Aleeza Esther Berger]
Using Hot Water on Shabbat
         [Chaim Sacknovitz]
Violating Shabbos for a Non-Jew
         [Richie Schiffmiller]


From: SCHILD%GAIA%<SDI@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 12:36:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Book Request - Toras HaOleh by Ramah

Does anyone know of the sefer Toras HaOleh by The Ramah. It is about
service in the sanctuary on spiritual terms. Is it still sold ? What was
the last edition published ? is it in a library somewhere ?



From: <AE_FINE@...> (Anya Finegold)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 11:40:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Calf Found Alive in a Shechted Cow

	Regarding the calf found alive in a shechted cow - I'm assuming
the cow must be killed (even though it doesn't have to be shechted as
previously mentioned) otherwise this would cause a problem of Ever Min

Anya Finegold


From: Jack Stroh <jackst@...>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 20:15:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Chillul Shabbat for non-jews

I am responding to the posting of Richard Schiffmiller in Volume 18 
Number 48. The reason that Jewish physicians must care for non-Jewish 
patients on Shabbat and Yom Tov is because of Darchei Shalom. Were it 
known that a Jewish physician neglected to care for a non-Jew on Shabbat, 
2 things might happen: a non-Jewish physician might not care for a Jew in 
return, leading to the Jew's demise, and/or the non-Jews in general might 
start a pogrom, leading to the Jews' demise. So it is for Darchei Shalom 
that we are allowed to transgress (with a shinui of course) the shabbat 
for the life-threatening care of the non-Jew.


From: Reuven Weiser <rweiser@...>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:56:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Electronic\Magnetic codings of Hashem's Name

Does anyone know of any sources about what significance an electronic or 
magnetic coding of Hashem's name, i.e., and audio or video cassette or 
computer hard drive, has? Is there any Kedusha involved? I guess there 
are really two parts two this question:
1) What is the Kedusha when the Name is only encoded but not displayed?
2) What is the Kedusha when the Name is actually displayed on screen or 
played on tape?
Ramifactions may be as follows:
1) Can one delete the Name of Hashem from his computer screen, as long as 
it stays on his hard drive?
2) Can one delete the Name of Hashem from his hard drive?
3) Can one bring a computer with the Name on his hard drive into a bathroom?
4) Can one bring a computer with the Name on the screen onto a bathroom?
I'm sure you can think of many other permutations. To me, imho, it would 
seem that while on screen or being played there would be inherent 
Kedusha, but while it is merely coded in magnetic form, which is for the 
most part arbitrary, it would be no different from any other non-holy 
combination of magnetic particles. Any thoughts? Thank you.
						-Reuven Weiser


From: <sr_duch@...> (Sam Duchoeny)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 21:16:58 -0500
Subject: Fish and dairy products

	I am reading all this about fish and dairy products, does this
mean that cream cheese and lox is not permitted.  I know that you can
not eat meat and fish but I don't know about dairy.  What does the
Hallacha say about this?



From: <aa640@...> (Neil Parks)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 00:26:25 -0500
Subject: Is "melacha" masculine or feminine?

In the Torah portion for this past Shabbos, Ki Sissa, we find:
 "Sheyshes yomim yayaseh melacha" (Six days creative labor shall be done.)

In the portion for this coming Shabbos, Vayakhel, it says:
 "Sheyshes yomim tayaseh melacha"--the same words, but using the feminine
form of the verb instead of the masculine.

Why is that?

NEIL EDWARD PARKS       >INTERNET: <nparks@...>
(Fidonet) 1:157/200 (PC Ohio)  


From: <Sheila2688@...> (Sheila)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 08:10:33 -0500
Subject: Jewish Belief in Afterlife

The topic is Jews and belief in afterlife.  I am not sure about whether we
believe in an afterlife, but I think we do not.
My husband and I were talking with a non-Jewish acquaintance who asked "why
do Jews observe the rules of their religion if they are to get no reward in
an afterlife?"   This was a thought-provoking question; our friend had been
brought up, as a Christian, to be "good" because otherwise he might not be
rewarded, or might even be punished.
If we do not think there is an afterlife, then this is not true for us and
indicates a basic difference in the way we and Gentiles approach life.
We told our friend that Jews are observant because they believe that is the
best way to be and that there is satisfaction in listening to what we believe
are the laws of God and the reward, if any, is in the doing, not in the
I would be interested in comments and clarification about exactly what the
Jewish conception of afterlife is.



From: <yehudah@...> (Yehudah Edelstein)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 22:17:26 +0200
Subject: Meat & Fish - MJ v18#58

I noticed a few postings stating that eating meat & fish is
dangerous. Some bad chemical reaction happens in your stomach etc. I
think the Gemora only states that it is a danger, but does not state
what type of danger. Unless someone can correct me, let's not assume
reasons that are not specifically stated.
 Yehudah Edelstein "<yehudah@...>"  Raanana, Israel


From: Alan Mizrahi <amizrahi@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 23:29:59 EST
Subject: Meat and Fish

I heard once that one reason for not eating meat and fish on the same
dishes is that it would be insulting to the meat, because fish are lower
animals.  This would explain why we can't eat them together, but can eat
one immediately after the other.

Alan Mizrahi


From: <EDABBAH@...> (Ezrah Dabbah)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:34:10 -0500
Subject: Medicine in the Gemara

I'm not quite sure I understood Micha Berger's statement in mj
v18#45. Am I to believe Rabbi Avigdor Miller when he says that anyone
can be cured with placebos and faith? This is quite a statement
especially when you consider the difference in the average age of death
in western civilization in this century versus last century.

In an unrelated note on his submission, Micha always ends his entry with
a note on Ron Arad. I read in today's (2/22/95) USA Today that Germany
is trying to broker a deal with Iran for the release of Ron Arad. Has
anyone else heard anything else regarding this development?


From: <RYehoshua@...> (Josh Berkowitz)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 23:32:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Nefesh Hachaim

To the poster who asked for a work on Nefesh Hachaim, one of the most
accessible sources is Rabbi Norman Lamm's book (available in paperback from
Ktav) entiltled "Torah for Torah's Sake."  Highly recommended both for it's
insightful analysis of the work being reviewed, and its place in
anti-Hassidic literature. Josh Berkowitz


From: "Joe Abeles" <joe_abeles@...>
Date: 26 Feb 1995 16:38:02 U
Subject: None

With all due respect, it would be a tad more persuasive were the Moderator
to use proper English in his parenthetical remark, by capitalizing language
names.  If he doesn't use English properly how can one expect anyone else
to do so?

>From: Evelyn C Leeper <ecl@...>
Subject: Translating Hebrew Terms into English

[Please folks, try and translate all non-standard hebrew terms into
english. Mod.]

Reminder: not all of us understand Hebrew terms, and I thought there
were going to be translations of the non-universal ones.  For example, I
counted fifteen words in the following that I didn't understand.


From: Mordechai Horowitz <BR00318@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 21:11:46 ECT
Subject: Rishonim and Homosexual Poetry

On another list Arthur Waskow claimed that many of the Rishonim were
homosexual and wrote homosexual poetry.  As a Judaic studies major
I heard the same claim as an undergraduate.  I assume that this poetry
was to G-d as it is quite obvious that Rishonim such as Ibn Ezra were
not homosexuals.  If anyone has sources I would apreciate it.  Unless
you have a problem, I would probably repost your response.


From: Aleeza Esther Berger <aeb21@...>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:33:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Trope Reference

Try "Introduction to the Tiberian Massorah" by Israel Yeivin.

aliza berger


From: Chaim Sacknovitz <chaim@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 21:03:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Using Hot Water on Shabbat

In our minyan on Shabbat morning, we were discussing the Isur of using 
hot water on Shabbat.  There are 2 basic problems.  When opening the hot 
water tap, cold water is immediately introduced into the hot water 
boiler.  One cannot close the cold water coming into the boiler since 
the pressure is needed to "push" the hot water out.  Therefore, 1) the 
cold water is heated to "yad soledet bo" (approximately 43-45 degrees 
C.) and "bishul occurs and 2) if enought cold water is introduced into 
the boiler the heat source (gas and flame or elctrical) will go on and 
"havarah" occurs.

This, of course, is not a new issue.  But I haven't seen this discussed
in the Sifrei Halacha other than "Chimum Mayim B'Shabbat" by Zomet.  This
is especially problematic in Canada where the water is VERY cold and
washing dishes on Friday night or washing one's hands and face can, at
times, be painful.  Do any of you know of a practical, inexpensive method
of using hot water on Shabbat? 

Chaim Sacknovitz


From: Richie Schiffmiller <moe@...>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 23:09:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Violating Shabbos for a Non-Jew

	I am responding to my own post about doctors violating Shabbos
to care for a non-Jew.  I stated in a previous post that it is not
permissible according to the Shulchan Aruch and all Rishonim and
Acharonim I could find (including Mishnah B'rurah) and yet doctors
commonly do it.  I was told there is a hetare in Iggoros Moshe of R.
Moshe Feinstein z"l.  It is in the last Chelek (Orach Chaim 3) Ch. 79.
His main source is a Teshuvah of the Chasam Sofer which may be found in
the Pischei Teshuvah to Yoreh Da'ah Siman 154, letter Bet.  R. Moshe
argues that Abbaye's comment in Avodah Zara 26a that one can avoid an
aivah (hatred) problem that may arise when refusing to treat a non-Jew
on Shabbos with the comment "We may violate Shabbbos for those who keep
Shabbos, but not for those who don't" does not apply today.  He says
that the hatred that would ensue would be spread by the media and there
would be a case of Pikuach Nefesh, or at least Safek Pikuach Nefesh, for
the DOCTOR and even for the Jewish community.  Thus, based on the Chasam
Sofer, one may even violate Torah prohibitions on Shabbos for a non-Jew.
He further argues that even if one is in an area where such dire results
may not be expected to occur if one refuses to violate Shabbos for the
non-Jew, one must still do it.  He reasons from the statement in the
Gemorah, quoted by the Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch, that when one sees
a JEW in danger, then even if an equally competent non-Jew is nearby,
even G'dolei Yisrael must do the act of saving the victim themselves and
not pass it off to the non-Jew or to a minor.  This is to avoid a
situation where one might think that it is not totally permissible to
act and hesitancy might result.  R. Moshe boldly extends this concept to
a NON-JEW in danger, and says that the doctor must violate Shabbos for
the non-Jew even if he thinks HE (the doctor) may not be in danger for
not doing so, so that for others, hesitation which may lead to problems
does not occur.

	Just for completeness, the Chasam Sofer was addressing the issue
of a professionally trained Jewish midwife who was being called to birth
non-Jewish women on Shabbos.  Since she was the only trained person in
her area, her refusal might lead to deaths which would incur aivah.
Chasam Sofer suggests that violation of even Biblical law would be
permitted if a non-Jew is not available to help.

	Clearly, the above seems to be a basis for doctors to care for 
non-Jews in danger on Shabbos as for Jews.  My problem is that R. Moshe 
and Chasam Sofer are going against seemingly all other authorities (in 
fact, R. Moshe expresses his shock at Chafetz Chaim for condemning 
doctors who violate Shabbos for non-Jews).  Does anyone know of any other 
authorities who concur with this position (R. Waldenberg, for example)?

				Richie Schiffmiller


End of Volume 18 Issue 64