Volume 18 Number 93
                       Produced: Wed Mar 22  9:07:24 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Community Computer networks
         [David Charlap]
Gay Club at YU
         [Jeff Stier]
Gays and my responsibilities
         [Evelyn C Leeper]
         [Joshua W. Burton]
Hot water on Shabbos
         [Rabin Nouranifar]
Midrashim on unnamed women in the Bible
         [Esther Nussbaum]
Mishloach Manot
         [Orin d Golubtchik]
Parakeets and Pesach
         [Arthur Roth]
Shaking Hands
         [Michael J Broyde]
Shemuel Hanagid
         [Mordechai Zvi Juni]
TeX-based typesetting of TaNaCH
         [Art Werschulz]
Washing hands in Airplane
         [Akiva Miller]
YU & Stern
         [Mike Grynberg]


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 13:43:38 EST
Subject: Community Computer networks

Joshua Lee <jlee@...> writes:
>> a) Making it possible for Jewish youth from all over the Metro
>> area to communicate (via email or possibly chat)
>Most good BBS programs offer email and chat.

Nearly all BBS programs (good or bad) offer email.  Personally, I
wouldn't be too concerned with chat.  Remember, you can only chat with
people who are currently logged-on.  This means you're going to need a
bunch of phone lines if chatting will be useful.  This will be a
significant investment in phone lines, computer hardware, and

If your needs are modest, there are many shareware/freeware BBS programs
out there.  I have two that work well for one-or-two lines with no
outside networking.  They'll run on any kind of PC you have (I used them
successfully on a PC-XT with a 10MB hard drive.)  Send me mail if you'd
like details.


From: Jeff Stier <jstier@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 12:50:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Gay Club at YU

In response to Mr. Burton's question about whether or not abomonations
are committed in the YU gay club, I do not know. You SHOULD know,
though, that they are giving out Hamentashen Purim night- during a "gay
movie night" event.  It is not an issue of whether gay sex is performed
at these meetings- which I presume its not- its that the club is
promooting homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.  If the club were
merely a support group for homosexuals, where they worked on overcomming
their possibly natural desires, I would have no problem with it. The
problem is that the club is attempting to promote the gay lifestyle at
Y.U.  That is the problem.  <jstier@...>


From: Evelyn C Leeper <ecl@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 11:44:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Gays and my responsibilities

On Mar 9, 10:47, Chaim Shapiro wrote:
> 	As an officer in the NorthEastern Illinois University Student
> Government, I deal with student organizations on a daily basis.  It is
> my responsibility to approve the charter, designate funds and watch the
> progress of these organizations.
> 	I am concerned about my obligations in dealing with the Gay
> Lesbian and Bisexual Alliance (GLBA).  In accordance with University
> policy the GLBA has a right to a charter and funding when requested.
> What am I supposed to do?  Do I follow University policy and vote to
> grant them full rights and privleges, or do I actively oppose and vote
> against them?  Or may I remove myself from the proceedings and abstain?
> If it makes a difference, there are several Jewish members involved in
> the GLBA.

If you were a judge ruling on a case in which someone had done
something against halacha but not against the law, you would be
expected to rule according to the law.  Similarly here (in my opinion),
I believe you should be voting according to University policy rather
than according to halacha.  However, I believe that abstaining would be
an acceptable alternative, just as a judge can remove himself from a
case in which he believes he cannot be impartial.

Evelyn C. Leeper | +1 908 957 2070 | <Evelyn.Leeper@...>


From: <burton@...> (Joshua W. Burton)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 11:07:27 -0500
Subject: Harvard-Radcliffe

George S. Schneiderman, Harvard '95, writes

> Harvard students (ie men) and Harvard-Radcliffe students (ie women)
> attend the same classes and live in the same dormitories.

This is true, and has been so since the seventies.  (Indeed, Radcliffe,
or The Annex as they called it in my great-grandmother's day, has been
dependent on Harvard professors since the beginning.  Coed classes and
labs started in the Depression, coed libraries in the fifties, and the
merger was fully consummated around 1971.)  But Mr. Schneiderman's 
wording reminds us of the old snipe about 'chairperson' being the new
word for 'chairwoman'.  Whether students are admitted by Harvard
College, by Radcliffe College, or by one of the graduate schools of
Harvard University, they are Harvard-Radcliffe students.  The whole
point of the slow merger was to give everyone the same degree, while
keeping historical and sentimental things like the alumni associations
and the Phi Beta Kappa chapters distinct.

We wish Mr. Schneiderman a happy commencement this June, if he hasn't
taken time off along the way.

                           Joshua W. Burton, Harvard-Radcliffe '84
                           Deborah S. Burton, Harvard-Radcliffe '84


From: <NOURANIFAR@...> (Rabin Nouranifar)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 00:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hot water on Shabbos

        I have been told that if one lives in an apartment building with 
Non-Jews, then one is allowed to use the hot water on shabbos. Has anyone 
else heard of this before?

	How does his situation solve the halachic problems associated 
with when one lives in a house?



From: Esther Nussbaum <nussbaum@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 18:33:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Midrashim on unnamed women in the Bible

Does anyone know of midrashim or other tanakhic sources that refer to the 
unnamed women in the Bible such as: Bat Paroh or Aishet Lot? I'd 
appreciate hearing from anyone either on mail-Jewish or through alternate 
route to Ramaz Upper School  Library, 60 East 78th Street, NY 10021.

Esther Nussbaum


From: Orin d Golubtchik <ogolubtc@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 11:56:20 EST
Subject: Mishloach Manot

This question came up in a shiur on Purim.  We all have learned (based on
Megilah Daf 7) that we should send at least two items to one person in order
to fulfill the Mitzvah of Mishloach Manot.  HOWEVER, and here is the question
- I recall learning that you have to send two items - and two different
brachot - however, in the Gemarah - there doesn't seem to be any basis for
this distinction of two different brachot.  Does anyone out there remember
learning the need for two different brachot ? and Does anyone know a source
for that ?
thanks and Chag Sameach


From: <rotha@...> (Arthur Roth)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:02:48 -0600
Subject: Parakeets and Pesach

>From Eliyahu Teitz (MJ 18:78):
> Arthur Roth wrote asking about kosher for Pesach parakeet food so that
> he would not have to keep his pet at a pet shop over the holiday.  There
> solution of keeping a pet elsewhere does not resolve the problem.  A Jew
> can not derive pleasure/benefit from chametz on Pesach.  If the petshop
> owner fed the bird chametz, then the owner was deriving benefit from
> that chametz.  One possible solution would be to give the pet as a
> 'gift' to a non- Jew for Pesach.

This exact question occurred to me before I did it, so I asked my LOR,
and he paskened that there was ABSOLUTELY no problem here, that it was
the same as boarding a dog at a kennel, which has been permitted by
"almost all poskim" (exact words of my LOR).  The rationale is that
since you are PAYING the store/kennel to care for your animal, THEY are
responsible for any damage while the animal is in their care, according
to both Jewish law and civil law.  So if the animal is not fed properly,
THEY lose money and you lose nothing tangible, though I'm not trying to
minimize the sentimental attachment we all have to our pets and the
sadness we'd feel if we had to replace a pet with another one of "equal"
value.  Thus, the food they give the animal is for THEIR benefit (to
prevent incurring responsibility for damages) and not yours.  If a
non-Jewish friend fed your pet for free as a favor, then Eliyahu's
problem would apply, and his solution would be one way to resolve it.
    At any rate, the pet shop option has other drawbacks, such as the
cost and the lost oppportunity to enjoy the pet during that period of
time.  Thanks to responses from MJ members, both publicly posted and
privately E-mailed, I now have several viable options for keeping my
bird at home.

Arthur Roth


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:35:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Shaking Hands

The various writiers concerning hand shaking by members of the opposite 
sex have avoided accepting the minhag ha-olam of the non-chasid world, 
which is that one may shake the hand of a member of the opposite sex once 
it is extended and declining to do so will embarrass the person.  I have 
heard this in the name of many many poskim.  The rationale for the rule 
is that hand shaking is shelo kederech chiba (not a form of sexual 
gratification) which is at most an issur derabanan (see Rama on EH 21) 
and becomes the better of two options when the alternative is to 
embarrasss a person in public, particularly a person who is unfamiliar 
with the mores of relgious Jews.
One caveat: this rationale is inapplicable to ones own spouse beshat tumah.
Michael Broyde


From: <bi029@...> (Mordechai Zvi Juni)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 23:53:35 -0500
Subject: Shemuel Hanagid

Mordechai Horowitz asks: Who was Shemuel Hangid?
He was The Nagid (leader) of Spanish Jewery in the 11th century.
He was secretary of the vizer of Granada and after he himself became the
vizer of Granada.
Throughout his life he wrote masterly Hebrew POETRY. (those 3 poems (which
i didn't pay attention to) is one of the many he wrote) he use to write a
poem on everything that happened to him.
He had a son called Yehosef who became Nagid and vizer after Shemuel
Hanagid died, but was killed in the berber uprosong on the ninth of
Teveth, 4826 (1066 C.E.)

Cutouts from the book: Shemuel Hanagid a historical novel. (translated by
Sheindel Weinbach) printied in Isreal in 1980.

(i hope Mordechai: that you have an idea of ho he was).
Mordechai Zvi Juni         :        -(*) (*)- 
<bi029@...>  :           /-\                                 


From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 12:17:03 -0500
Subject: TeX-based typesetting of TaNaCH


The current issue of TUGboat (the TeX User Group magazine) has an
article by Yannis Haralambous, "Typesetting the holy Bible in Hebrew,
with TeX".  He describes a TeX-based input language, capable of
printing TaNaCH with nikkudim [vowels] and ta'amim [cantillation

There's a good discussion of TeXnques for properly placing the various
diacritical marks, as well as a listing of some interesting anomalies
(large and small letters, suspended ayin, etc.)

As a sample, he gives the text of Bereshit I:1--19.  The output is
stunningly beautiful.  It's worth finding someone who has a copy of
TUGboat just to look at the output.

  Art Werschulz (8-{)}  
  GCS/M (GAT): d? -p+ c++ l u+(-) e--- m* s n+ h f g+ w+ t++ r- y? 
  InterNet:  <agw@...>
  ATTnet:    Columbia U. (212) 939-7061, Fordham U. (212) 636-6325


From: <Keeves@...> (Akiva Miller)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:50:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Washing hands in Airplane

Steve Albert mentioned in mj 18:83:

>...  Some of HaRav Scheinberg's family
>washed in the bathroom, and explained when someone asked that HaRav
>Scheinberg held that that is permitted.
>     It may be that HaRav Moshe Tendler holds differently (certainly it
>has been a subject of sheilos to various poskim), so that he and his
>wife chose to use gloves instead.  It could also be that the
>circumstances on an airplane, ...

My understanding is that many poskim are lenient regarding modern bathrooms
because the toilet is flushed soon after use, and that this removes most of
the negative factors which would apply to a nonflushing outhouse. This in
mind, it could be that the poskim who are lenient about a regular modern
toilet might *not* be lenient on an airplane, where the waste is stored, and
is disposed of only after the plane lands.


From: <spike@...> (Mike Grynberg)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 11:13:39 +0300
Subject: YU & Stern

i am not sure what it is like now, but when i graduated Yeshiva College
in '92, YC and Stern used the same ID number to apply to graduate
schools and for the GRE's and the like. Within the framework of
YU they might be two separate institutions, but to the outside
world, they were officially one. 
As for them being totally separate, i participated in a class of
men and women, and others occurred as well. in one instance it was a 
visiting professor who could only teach once a week. and in another
case it was a course required for graduation, and only by pooling
the students were there enough people for a class. But this is rare.
i had one course which was a one-on-one, just me and the professor.
2 lectures a week. the equivalent class at stern had 2 students.

sorry for getting off track. as the case may be, there are times
when they act as one school.

mike grynberg
YC '92


End of Volume 18 Issue 93