Volume 19 Number 31
                       Produced: Tue Apr 11  6:52:56 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Date Line issue
         [Yehudah Prero]
Fish and Meat together
         [Warren Burstein]
         [David Charlap]
Goose Livers.
         [Moshe Kahan]
Homosexual group at secular university
         [George Schneiderman]
Hot Water on Shabbat
         [Michael Slifkin]
Interest Free Loans
         [David M Kramer]
Looking for a Book
         [Fred Dweck]
         [Aleeza Esther Berger]
Pate Kashruth
         [Leah S. Gordon]
         [Shalom Carmy]
Sex of Baby
         [Sheryl Haut]
Shalom Bayit
         [Zvi Weiss]
Shemittah wine
         [Lon Eisenberg]
YU and Gay and Lesbian Controversy
         [Jeff Stier]


From: <DaPr@...> (Yehudah Prero)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:41:10 -0400
Subject: Date Line issue

There had been some discussion lately about the issue of when to keep
Shabbos where there is a date line question. A much mentioned p'sak has
been that of the Chazon Ish. I have heard from a major posek ( who,
since I did not speak to him before writing this to clarify things,
shall remain nameless) who felt that this p'sak has limited
application. The p'sak of the Chazon Ish came as a response to a
situation which was already at hand: people were LIVING in an area where
there was a question, and they wanted to know how to conduct
themselves. This was a b'dieved situation. L'chat'chila, one should NOT
GO to such a place for Shabbos/Tomtov, as the p'sak of the Chazon Ish
was ONLY b'dieved, for people who were in such a situation already. If
anyone has a l'ma'aseh question on this p'sak, please e-mail me and I
will refer you to the posek I am refering to.

Have a gut yomtov,
Yehudah Prero (Dapr @ aol.com)


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 17:26:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Fish and Meat together

>So.... if meat and fish together causes this impurity (or acts like
>poison to us in a spiritual way)

If it does, why isn't it prohibited either by an explicit text in the
Torah, derived by Chazal from the Torah, or taught as a "Halachah
l'Moshe Misinai"?

 |warren@         an Anglo-Saxon." -- Stuart Schoffman
/ nysernet.org


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 12:34:28 EDT
Subject: Gambling

<clkl@...> (Carolyn Lanzkron) writes:
>What are the laws about gambling?

As far as I know, it's forbidden outright.  I think it's considered to
be a total waste of time, and wasting time is prohibited.

Furthermore, gambling with cards (as opposed to dice or slot machines or
something) has additional kabbalistic problems.  I asked a Chabad rabbi
about cards.  We looked in a bunch of books and found a reference.  The
book (I forget which one) mentioned that there is a tumah (impurity)
associated with cards, and they they should not be touched.  (The book
didn't specify playing cards or Tarot cards.  My rabbi assumed it
applies to both.)  The book did not explain the nature of the tumah.


From: Moshe Kahan <kahan@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 20:39:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Goose Livers.

	What I relate here is only a Maaseh [story] not actual Halakha.
My father tells me that in Sighet, Rumania the Chassidishe community was
always careful to eat Glatt, anything else was out of the
question. However the town was split as far as goose. The more "frum"
Chassidim would only eat non-stuffed goose livers while the less "frum"
would indulge in the "stuffed" geese.  Moshe Kahan


From: George Schneiderman <schneid@...>
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:56:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Homosexual group at secular university

> >On Mar 9, 10:47, Chaim Shapiro wrote:
> >> >I am concerned about my obligations in dealing with the Gay
> >> Lesbian and Bisexual Alliance (GLBA).  In accordance with University
> >> policy the GLBA has a right to a charter and funding when requested.
> >> What am I supposed to do?  Do I follow University policy and vote to
> >> grant them full rights and privleges, or do I actively oppose and vote
> >> against them?  Or may I remove myself from the proceedings and abstain?
> Suppose we take an extreme case - you were a judge in Nazi Germany in
> the 1930's, judging the murder of a Jew which (I assume was) permissable
> according to German Law. Would you then make the same statement, that
> you should follow the official policy rather then Jewish Law?  I think
> not.

1.  When homosexuality is compared to murder (much less to Naziism),
this sets the stage for the commission of murder and other violent
crimes against homosexuals, simply because they are homosexuals.  I hope
that Mr.  Henderles would not endorse such crimes, but he must realize
that his attitude involves implicit complicity.  You need not think that
homosexual activity (or abortion, the other prime example) is morally
right to realize the consequences of equating it with murder.  Our
casually expressed moral attitudes can, in the long run, have profound
moral consequences that we may not have intended.

2.  If Mr. Shapiro feels that his religious convictions prevent him from
carrying out his obligations under university policy, then I see only
two possible ethical paths for him.  One would be for him to abstain on
this issue, as he suggests.  If this is not possible, or if it is and he
still feels that he must actively oppose the support for the homosexual
group, than his only option is to resign from the unversity council.  I
am sure that no one is forcing him to occupy this office.  What he
cannot do is have it both ways--selectively violate university policy
while continuing to exercise the power of his office.

--George S. Schneiderman   <schneid@...>


From: Michael Slifkin <slifkin@...>
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 13:53:50 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Hot Water on Shabbat

The usual arrangement in Israel is to have two separate circuits , one
to give heat to the radiators and one to give heat to the hot water
system.  These are seperately isolatable by taps.  A visual inspection
should be sufficient to work out which taps control which circuits.

Professor M.A. Slifkin               userid: <slifkin@...>
Department of Electronics            tel:+972 (02)751176
Jerusalem College of Technology      fax:+972 (02)422075
Jerusalem 91160    Israel


From: David M Kramer <david_m_kramer@...>
Date: 07 Apr 95 12:22:13 EST
Subject: Interest Free Loans

>In modern finance interest is essentially a payment for the "risk".
>Does this mean that in modern times getting interest, including from 
>the bank in return for a deposit, is assur?  I assume that this was 
>the primary motivation for the Free Loan associations that flourished 
>in the early part of this century. 

At the Shalom Zachor of my son 5 years ago, Rav Moshe Heinemann (of the
Agudas Ysroel of Baltimore) related a short dvar Torah about interest.

He explained that throughout history there was always a major risk
element when a Jew lent money to a Gentile.  The Jew may be living in a
town, city or country, today, however, tomorrow he may be exiled or
persecuted.  In turn the Gentile would not go out of his way to seek out
the Jew to repay the loan. (Sometimes the Gentile would just feel like
repaying the loan and there would be minimum legal action which the Jew
was able to take).

In contrast, the Jewish honesty and integrity will cause a Jew to seek
out one who lends him money no matter where in the world the lender may
be.  A Jew would not dream of not repaying his debt.

The risk factor with lending money to a Gentile was high, so interest
was permitted.  The risk factor with lending money to another Jew was
minimal, so interest was forbidden. (The Jew who lends the money to his
fellow Jew had complete faith that Hashem will bestow the borrower with
success and enable him to repay the loan).


From: <FDWECK@...> (Fred Dweck)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:44:52 -0400
Subject: Looking for a Book

I used to have a book which explained the Torah along the four different
paths of "Pardes." It would take a passage or part of a passage and give
the explanation, first according to peshat (literal) then according to
remez (allusion) then according to derash (legend) and finally according
to sod (Kabbalah). I have lost the book and can't remember the name of
it. I would like to replace it. I had thought that it was "The Rokeah on
the Torah," but it turns out not to be. Does anyone know, or have any
idea which book I am referring to? Please respond by private e-mail as
well as posting to M-J for the benefit of those others who might be
interested. My e-mail address is: <Fdweck@...>

Chag Sameyah Vekasher to all my fellow M-Jers.
Fred E. Dweck 
Yeshuah Ezra Dweck 
Los Angeles 


From: Aleeza Esther Berger <aeb21@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 19:54:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pants

I believe one of the following sources is given by Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, 
the other by Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, but I forgot whose is whose. I am doing 
this from memory so there may be slight errors.

1) The Torah in describing how articles become impure, mentions a man's 
horse that he sits on and a woman's chair. Hence one may infer that women 
don't ride horses. Since women don't ride horses obviously because that 
is immodest, ergo women can't wear pants as that is immodest for the same 
reason as horse-riding: it splits your legs apart.

(Why no one forbids horse riding for women is the obvious question on 
this. --or does someone forbid it???)

2) In later prophets (somewhere, no books available) immodest women are 
described as having bells on their hems. Hence one may infer that 
anything drawing attention to legs is immodest, hence no pants.

I am not endorsing the no pants position, just giving the sources. 

Aliza Berger


From: Leah S. Gordon <lsgordon@...>
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 20:43:23 -0700
Subject: Pate Kashruth

Rabbi Eliyahu Teitz writes:

"Pate is made from liver.  Liver must be broiled in order to be eaten.
Pate, to the best of my knowledge, is not made from broiled liver, in
which case it might not be permissible."

There exist on the market (in Israel and France, though perhaps not in
the United States), several brands of pate under [reliable] hashgacha.
This would imply to me that kosher pate, at least, is made from broiled
livers, though treif pate may not be.

Leah S. Gordon


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:05:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Rav zt"l's HALAKHIC MIND

"Is the Philosophy of Halakha Possible?" is the original title of the 
text eventually published as The Halakhic Mind.

In private the Rav continued to refer to the essay by its original name
throughout his career when discussing it with student(s) with whom he 
shared the typescript.


From: Sheryl Haut <0006665205@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 16:56 EST
Subject: Sex of Baby

    There was some comment about davening to change a baby's sex early
in the pregnany. The genetic sex is determined the minute the sperm
(which is carrying either an X or Y chromosome) fertilizes the egg. The
"phenotypic" sex is what the person looks like and this is what is
influenced by hormones.  Occasionally there is a true male who is
phenotypically female and vice versa. In fact there was a family of
these women who were very beautiful and infertile, who were actually
males, discussed in the Talmud. (Nashim, Ketubot 10b - Dorkati family).
    Both males with "testicular feminization syndrome" and females with
male phenotypic appearance are infertile. Thus it seems to me that it
would not be wise to pray for a particular sex after conception has
already occurred.
                                           Sheryl Haut  


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:18:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Shalom Bayit

In the query of "Shalom Bayint" vs. Halacha, I believe that it can be 
formulated differently:
Instead of Keep Yom Tov but upset everyone else or violate Yom Tov and 
make everyone else happy 
How about:
Demonstrate mutual tolerance by (a) accepting that you cannot change 
other people in their (lack of) religiosity even as (b) they accept the 
fact that you now follow a belief that they do not share -- but should 
still respect.

Of course, in regard to (a) please CYLOR in term of "Hocheah Tocheah"...

I believe that it is unfair to phrase the question as if it is a 
LEGITIMATE request on the part of others to violate Halacha simply 
because they do not hold from it.  "Shalom Bayit" should not be used as a 
"cover" for bullying, either.



From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 10:11:36 +0000
Subject: Shemittah wine

Is the time of "bi`ur" for wine before Pesah or during (or after) Pesah?
Would 2-3 bottles be considered a small enough quantity to not require bi`ur?

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5659578 Fax:+972 3 5658205


From: Jeff Stier <jstier@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:56:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: YU and Gay and Lesbian Controversy

The Jewish Press this week ran YU's response to the gay and lesbian
controversy that was most recently discussed in the Forward.  The
Forward now on the newstands has a few VERY intereseting letters to the
Editor on the topic- including one, I'm told, that praises Dr. Lamm's
acceptance of homosexual activity.  I answered the YU letter to the
Editor (That appeared in both the Forward and the Jewish Press), and am
expecting both papers to run my comments.

Interestingly, the Jewish Week, NY's largest NY Jewish paper (Correct
Jay?)  has not yet run the article they wrote on the topic.  The
publisher, Gary Rosenblat has suggested to me that it may appear in the
next few weeks.

That is the latest on where you can read about the ongoing saga.  If
someone would be kind enough to teach me how to take a word for windows
document and upload it to PINE, I'd be glad to share my letter.

Jeff Stier


End of Volume 19 Issue 31