Volume 19 Number 55
                       Produced: Thu May 11 23:36:53 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Dresses and Pants
         [avi wollman]
Entering a Church
         [M Horowitz]
Isaac Breuer request
         [Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer]
L'cha Dodi
         [Israel Medad - Knesset]
L'Khah Dodi
         [Merril Weiner]
Meturgeman - v1#47
         [Yehudah Edelstein]
Moderator for Newsgroup on Jewish Parenting
         [Constance Stillinger]
Order of Parshiot
         [Rabbi Yaakov Shemaria]
Ovens (2)
         [Lon Eisenberg, Jonathan Jacobson]
Question on turning for Lcha Dodi
         [Philip Ledereic]
Shiluach Haken
         [Philip Ledereic]
Snyut and Bicycling
         [Rachel Rosencrantz]
Theory of Punishment in Jewish Criminal Law
         [Greg Joffe]
Turning during Lecha Dodi
         [Mike Paneth]
Tzedakah Scrip
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Women and Pants
         [Joseph Steinberg]


From: <avi@...> (avi wollman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 12:31:13 EET DST
Subject: Dresses and Pants 

 It is generally excepted in the religious + girls high schools 
in isreal that when going on hiking trips the girls wear pant or
koolats under their skirts.
As to danger of a skirt in the bikes wheels or chains that's
another story try finding a less (!) loose skirt the pants will take
car of the Tznius.

Avi Wollman


From: M Horowitz <BR00318@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 01:57:05 ECT
Subject: Re: Entering a Church

On the issue of Jews and Churches, when I was an undergraduate at
Emory in Atlanta Rabbi Emmanuel Feldman allowed me to enter an active
church that was also used as an auditorium for the University.  They
used it whenever they wanted to adress the largest crowds of students.
It was used on a regular basis for this reason, and I think this was why
he allowed it but cannot be sure.


From: <sbechhof@...> (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 18:27:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Isaac Breuer request

Much material on the subject of Isaac Breuer's attitude to the Jewish
State (which was all theoretical since he died in 1946) is to be found
in his seforim Moriah (which is indexed)* and Tziyunei Derech (which is
not). Moriah is a very inspiring work, which develops Breuer's idea of
history and meta-history. These two seforim were issued together by
Mosad HaRav Kook. I have never read his Nachaliel, but Dayan Grunfeld in
Three Generations says that is Breuer's seminal work.

*try pp. 203-221.

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer


From: Israel Medad - Knesset <imedad@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 13:24:44 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: L'cha Dodi

	This subject was dealt with last year or so and I repeat my
input then:

	One should face the West as, according to the Gemara, "the
Shechina is in the West".  As far as the bow towards the Aron Kodesh, I
personally do it as a mark of respect but I haven't seen it codified.

Yisrael Medad


From: Merril Weiner <weiner@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 17:24:54 -0400
Subject: L'Khah Dodi

It is quite ironical that many people turn towards the back of the
shul (Westward) to greet the Sabbath.  When you see the sunset to 
the West, 100 miles West of you it is not yet Shabbat and 100 miles
East of you it is Shabbat.  So, the Sabbath comes from the East.

Should we not turn towards the Aron Qodesh to greet the Sabbath?

-Menachem Weiner


From: <yehudah@...> (Yehudah Edelstein)
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 23:01:48 +0200
Subject: Meturgeman - v1#47

The Meturgeman translates (explains) the reading, almost
simultaneaously. The Yemenites still do it. I don't know when or why
most communities stopped, but perhaps more people go to know Lashon
Hakodesh, or people would not give the proper importance to the reading
from the Torah, but rely upon the Translation.

Yehudah Edelstein "<yehudah@...>" Raanana, Israel


From: Constance Stillinger <cas@...>
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:47:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Moderator for Newsgroup on Jewish Parenting


As some of you may know, there has been a great deal of discussion
lately in misc.kids (and some in soc.culture.jewish) about forming a
newsgroup devoted to discussing Jewish parenting issues.  Such a group
might well be a magnet for postings that are clearly inappropriate
(e.g. attempts to prostelytize for conversion to religions other than
Judaism, anti-circumcision activism, and posts that do nothing but
denigrate other posters for being
Orthodox/Conservative/Reform/Reconstructionist/Intermarried Jews), so
the formal RFD for the (yet unnamed) group will call for moderation.

Early discussion favors a group approach to moderation.  Specifically,
the hope is to get a "board of directors" with a shared vision for the
group (note that this does _not_ imply a shared vision on how to raise
Jewish children).  This means there's a need for

1) a principal moderator, who will preview every post, and

2) "backup" moderators, who will moderate when the principal moderator
is on vacation, and who will be included on a mailing list for
discussions on posts that do not follow the group charter.

Every effort is being made in writing the charter to keep moderation to
a bare minimum, since no-one has the time or energy to devote to this
all day long.

If you are interested in serving as a moderator, please drop a line to
Marjorie Peskin at <mpeskin@...> .


From: Rabbi Yaakov Shemaria <Yaakov@...>
Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 15:01:14 GMT
Subject: Order of Parshiot

   Rafael Salasnick asked M .J. volume 19 no. 39 Whenever 1st day is on
a Shabbat ( as it was this year), the following Shabbat in Chutz
l'aretz) in the diaspora is Aharon Shel Pesach whilst in Israel it is a
regular Shabbat. Therefore in Israel it is a regular Shabbat. Why
outside of Israel do we wait until Mattot Massei in a leap year, like
this year and not Behar-Behukotai. Rabbi Menashe Klein in Volume 6
number 91 says why. He explains in the name of the The Knesset Hagedola, a
commentary on the TUR SHULHAN ARUCH that perhaps the reason is since
Tasria and Metsorah both deal with purity the rabbis did not want to
separate them. He suggests perhaps that is reason as well they did not
separate Aharei-Mot,- kedoshim for the same reason in Eretz Yisrael
during a regular year, when the first day of Pesach falls on
Shabbat. Rabbi Klein goes on to explain in the name of the Mahrit, why
during a leap year , when the first day Pesach falls on Shabbat outside
of Israel we wait until Mattot Massei , to catch up.

Rabbi Yaakov Shemaria


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:22:31 +0000
Subject: Ovens

Rabbi Leff (Mattetyahu) requires letting the oven sit for 24 hr. between
dairy and meat (in either direction) or covering the item if it is baked
before that period has elapsed after baking something of the other

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5659578 Fax:+972 3 5658205

From: <JonJ1@...> (Jonathan Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 19:31:51 -0400
Subject: Ovens

In MJ 19:51 Jay Bailey wrote:

>On the aliyah-oriented TACHLIS group, there is s discussion about >dual ovens
 that have a section for meat and one for milk. Just >curious - how many
mj'ers use 2 ovens at all? What are the >requirements vis-a-vis using a
single oven for both?

There is an excellent explanation of the requirements in the book "Laws of
Kasharus" by Rabbi Binyamin Forst.  This book is a very good source for all
laws of Kasharus.

Jonathan Jacobson


From: Philip Ledereic <ledereic@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 19:08:42 EDT
Subject: Question on turning for Lcha Dodi

This is probably a stupid question, but one that always bothered me.
When turning for Lcha Dodi (toward the doorway, to greet the Shabbos
Queen), does one turn clockwise or counterclockwise, and how
should one turn back - the same direction or different, or
it does not matter?



From: Philip Ledereic <ledereic@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 19:18:07 EDT
Subject: Shiluach Haken

About the topic on Shiluach Haken, a sefer by Rabbi Mordechai Sharabi
quotes that the mitzvoh may be a segulah (not sure how to translate) for
a childless couple to have children.

To quote him - the schar (reward) for doing this mitzvoh (good deed) is
to have children.  How do we know this? because the Torah states
"Shalach tishalach es haeim" you should send away the mother,- and what
is your reward? "Ve'es habonim tikach lach" the sons you take for you
(meaning the birds children you could keep after sending away the mother
bird, reinterpreted that you get to have your own children).



From: <rachelr@...> (Rachel Rosencrantz)
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Snyut and Bicycling

Sniyut v.s. practicality? Pants and biking.

> >From: <light@...> (Sam S. Lightstone)
> The problem is: What is a women to wear in a situation where the normal
> level Snyiut would not be possible? Specifically my wife and I enjoy
> cycling, but travelling distances over 30km a day in a skirt is not only
> impractical, but dangerous.

I'm glad you have asked that question.  I'm struggling with the same
issue myself.  Everyone I talk with seems to think that bicycling means
slow peddling not too aerobic, so they don't realize the danger of a
skirt.  Not only is that not my idea of bicycling but it isn't so good
for the knees.  (You should try to keep a cadence of about 70-90 cycles
per minute if I remember rightly.)

I know that there is such a thing as a cycling dress.  I'm not sure how
long the skirt is on these though since I haven't been able to locate
any yet.  (I know a place in Santa Cruz, CA that used to carry them but
it's a little far from New Jersey.)

I'd like to know other peoples answers to this problem.  



From: <U8302871@...> (Greg Joffe)
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 18:03:02 +1000
Subject: Theory of Punishment in Jewish Criminal Law

I was wondering if anyone has information on an essay I am completing
for a talmudic law class at University of New South Wales Law School in
Sydney, Australia. The topic is: "Is there a theory of punishment in
Jewish criminal law?", and I am also interested in contrasting the
Christian emphasis on hell and heaven for reward/punishment versus the
Jewish focus on this life. If anyone knows of good material (in English)
could they please send me a reply at <u8302871@...>

Thanks. Greg Joffe.


From: <mikep@...> (Mike Paneth)
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 19:23:58 +1000
Subject: Turning during Lecha Dodi

What do we in Australia do, as we face west when we daven?
Mike Paneth
Melbourne Australia


From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 11 May 1995 09:14:43 +0200
Subject: Tzedakah Scrip

     In Baltimore (as in many other places) the day schools are in
serious financial trouble.  The Rabbanim have repeatedly asked the
members of the community to give top priority to the schools when giving
tzedakah, and they have pointed out that the needs of one's own
community take precedence over those of other communities.
Nevertheless, there is a very large net outflow of money from Baltimore
to other cities due to the generosity of Baal HaBatim (householders)
when approached by meshulachim (charity collectors).

     To deal with this situation, the Agudah is instituting a system of
"tzedakah scrip."  These are coupons that can be purchased and given to
meshulachim (charity collectors) as a donation.  Each coupon is
redeemable for a specified face value, but its cost is 25% higher.  The
additional 25% goes to a school of the givers choice.

     For example: an $8 coupon costs $10.  When giving the coupon to a
meshulach, the donor writes the name of a school on the coupon.  The
meshulach redeems the coupon for $8 and $2 goes to the school.

     Of course, use of the coupons is entirely voluntary.  Have any
other communities done anything similar?


From: Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...>
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 01:03:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Women and Pants

I do not know what the Halachic source for this is, but many religious
girls -- who never wear pants in public -- wear pants when they go

There is an issue of safety involved and saying 'because you are female
you cannot go skiing' is ridiculous.



End of Volume 19 Issue 55