Volume 19 Number 90
                       Produced: Wed Jun  7 10:12:54 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Airplane Meals (2)
         [V. Ellen Golden, Oren Popper]
Girl/Boy Contact
         [Sam Saal]
         [David Deutsch]
Mefarshim and Science V19 #48
         [Joe Goldstein]
         [Jeremy Nussbaum]
         [Yitzchak Unterman]
Selling Chametz Utensils
         [Israel Botnick]
Sex Change Operations
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Substituting G-d's name
         [M. Linetsky]
Vegetarian food..
         [Meylekh Viswanath]
Waiting a Year
         [M E Lando]


From: <egolden@...> (V. Ellen Golden)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 00:14:46 EDT
Subject: Airplane Meals

>From: Susan Hornstein <susanh@...>
    It is possible to request Kosher-Fish meals if the request is made ahead
    of time.  As always, with airline meals, you can't actually count on
    getting it, but it's worth a shot.  Actually, El Al was the airline that
    I accomplished this on, but I know that fish meals do exist in the
    Wilton/Schreiber repertoire.  

In my experience arranging various trips for various people (as a
secretary, and for my family), I have found that any airline, if you
make the request when you place the reservation, will honor it.  If
you try to call later (but still "ahead of time") and ask that the
request for a special meal be added, you have at best a 50/50 chance
of finding your special meal.  My first boss at MIT (many years ago)
felt comfortable enough with me (his previous secretaries had been
goyim who intimidated him for some reason) to tell me he wanted Glatt
Kosher meals, and would I request them for him when I scheduled his
travel.  I did, he always got them, he was VERY happy, and he did
promote me to my desired position as a technical person, BUT insisted
that I instruct his subsequent secretaries!

- Ellen

V. Ellen Golden

From: Oren Popper <opopper@...>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:13:05 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Re: Airplane Meals

In M-J V. 19 #81 Susan Hornstein <susanh@...> wrote:
> It is possible to request Kosher-Fish meals if the request is made ahead
> of time.  As always, with airline meals, you can't actually count on
> getting it, but it's worth a shot.  Actually, El Al was the airline that
> I accomplished this on, but I know that fish meals do exist in the

Unfortunately, here in the US, it is not possible (with most airlines)
to request a Kosher-Vegetarian or a Kosher-Fish meal, most airlines
reservation systems just don't have the code for this type of meal.

The problem exists not only during the 9 days but year-round. Many
people requiring Kosher meals on flights will not rely on Wilton for the
catering when meat is concerned, many will also not rely on them when
fish is concerened. In addition, supplying rolls or bread (non
Pas-Yisroel BTW) on a flight is very unpractical, since washing for
bread during a flight is very difficult if not impossible.

Unfortunately, they were awarded the contract for Kosher meals with most
airlines, so for now we have no choice but to write to the airlines and
hope for a change. I think any Kosher caterer would be wise to provide
only Parve meals on flights, since that would probably satisfy the
widest array of people (no Schita specific problems).

What I have done on some of my flights was request a fresh fruit meal.
After asking some authorities on Kashrus I was told that I could eat any
fruit which is not sour, even if it was cut up with treif utensils. This
type of meal request also ensures freshness, something I rarely found
with Kosher meals. However, here again, not all airlines offer this meal
option, so your best bet will always be to bring something along with

Oren Popper <opopper@...>


From: Sam Saal <haven.ios.com!<saal@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 09:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Girl/Boy Contact

    Ari Shapiro writes
>> A man should not ask about a woman even through an intermediary.

How is this possible? With only two sexes, at some point a male must
speak to a female.  Either this is some sort of hyperbole about how
careful one must be when talking to the opposite sex or a single guy
must talk to a married guy who talks to his wife who talks to the single

Sam Saal       <saal@...>
Vayiphtach HaShem et Peah haAtone


From: David Deutsch <dsd3543@...>
Date: 02 Jun 95 13:49:00 BST
Subject: Grandfathers

Somewhat tongue in cheek I would point out that Yitchak Avinu *did* pass
on the tradition to at least one granchild, namely Eliphaz the son of
Eisav who was thereby successfully persuaded by Yaacov not to murder him.
See Rashi in sefer Bereshis (Parshas Vayeitzei) Chapter 29 pasuk 11.
Nevertheless it obviously didn't get much futher than that!



From: Joe Goldstein <vip0280@...>
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 11:14:18 
Subject: Mefarshim and Science V19 #48

  Even though there are meforshim that say that Chazal can be mistaken
when it comes to science, the Rambam's son says that in an introduction to
a sefer, However, MANY if not most meforshim disagree with that.  The
Chazon Ish said the Reb Avrohom ben HoRAMBAM , who said chazal may be
mistaken, should not even be quoted as a shita!
  My own feeling on this is we all know that HISTAKEL BEORATYSO UBORO
WORLD. Therefore how can Chazal, who knew the entire Torah, including
Kabbala have been mistaken when is came to scientific matters They
understood HOW the world was created! We have gemmorahs where Tannaim
brought people back to life, or the gemmorah in Sanhedrin where an
ammorah created a 3 year old calf to be eaten for shabbos! This is
something that NO scientist can ever hope to do! When it comes to the
remedies that no longer work, there are 2 standard answers. 1) The
maharsha that nature has changed or 2) Chazal where writing this AL PEE
SOD or with a kabbalistic meaning and their words were not meant to be
taken at face value.
  I try to explain the Shita of Reb Avrohom Ben Horambam making this
seeming mistake in that it is known that the Rambam was not acqauinted
with KABBOLAH, At least most of his life. Therefore unless one had EVERY
facet of torah available to him one could possibly make a mistake.  Can
the Rishonim or Achronim make mistakes in science? Yes. Can the gemmorah
be mistaken NEVER!!!

  The truth of everything in the torah and gemorah is a concrete fact,
If science disagrees with Chazal, I have more confidence that eventually
scientists will overturn their teories and eventually come to the same
conclusion as we find in the Gemmorah.

   And yes I am troubled wit the rashi that seems to say the world is
flat, but that is not the only Rashi I do not understand!

 YOSEY (Joe) Goldstein


From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 13:13:59 EDT
Subject: Molad

> >From: Jan David Meisler <jm8o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
> Mike Gerver mentioned that the Molad is not a physical event occuring at
> a particular time.  I think this is incorrect.  My understanding of the
> Molad (told to me by one of my Rabbis) is that it is the time that the
> New Moon can first be seen anywhere in the world.  This time is given in
> Jerusalem time (I don't know if this "Halachik time" or "clock time"). 
> Thus, if the new moon could first be seen in the world from New York at
> midnight, then the Molad would be at 7:00 am.  
> This seems to make sense.  The purpose of announcing the molad and
> bentsching Rosh Chodesh (saying the blessing on the new moon) is to act
> in place of witnesses testifying to observing the new moon.  So,
> announcing when the new moon can be seen seems appropriate.  Using
> Jerusalem time is also appropriate since the witnesses needed to testify
> before a beit din (court) in Israel.

While this is a nice thought, the actual calculation is of the "mean
molad."  The time between each molad is the calculated average length of
the lunar month.  I do not remember how accurate the calculation is.  It
does not correspond to any physical event each month per se.  One can
calculate backwards to the imputed time of creation (imputed by the
instituter of this particular aspect of the calendar) using the mean
molad and any molad.

Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)


From: Yitzchak Unterman <Yitzchak.Unterman@...>
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 17:45:00
Subject: Questions

I should be grateful if someone could help me with the following two
questions.  Please provide references if possible.

1 I once heard that the zohar compares the ten expressions of joy that
appear in the blessings of sheva brochos (sasson, simcha, gila, rina
etc) to the ten pronouncements that Hashem used to create the world (as
mentioned in the fifth chapter of Pirkei Avos).  Where in zohar is this
(if it is there at all)?  Is it in some other place?

2 The gemara in the second chapter of kiddushin states that women are of
the opinion "tav lemaitav tan du mi lematav armalo" (it is better to be
married to anyone that to be single).  This applies even if the husband
is a muke shchin (full of boils).  Empirically this does not seem to be
women's opinion nowadays, but the statement cannot be rejected as
referring to those times since an halacha is derived from this fact.
Can anyone point me to an explanation of this?


From: <icb@...> (Israel Botnick)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 13:00:05 EDT
Subject: Selling Chametz Utensils

It seems very strange to me that we would need to sell the chametz
absorbed in utensils. There is no prohibition of bal yeraeh (ownership
of chametz on peasch) on chametz absorbed in a utensil, so why sell it.
We may sell or rent our dishes to a non-jew but I believe that is because
there may be actual chametz stuck to the dishes.

Israel Botnick


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 03:50:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sex Change Operations

     On May 19, Joel Grinberg wrote:
>Twice in the past all the emplyoees in my division were advised that
>some individuals have gone through a sex-change operation, and will
>be coming back as "women".  Employees were ordered to treat these
>individuals normally and courteously.

>I wonder what Judaism's attitude is on the matter. This kind of thing is
>most abhorrent to me, and I believe that I would have difficulty in
>working with such persons. How much respect am I obligated to show
>to these individuals?

     Although I share your disgust and I think these people are sick,
nevertheless one should feel as much revulsion for people who have sex
outside of marriage.  One should have more revulsion for people who
commit adultery or from those who are Ba'alei Loshon Horo, incessant
slanderers of our Jewish brethren about who the gemora says that one
should stay four amos away from such people.



From: 81920562%<TAONODE@...> (M. Linetsky)
Date: Fri 02 Jun 1995 10:53 ET
Subject: Substituting G-d's name

In volume 81 there is a statement about Hashshem being written with a
dash. It is probably not necessary since you must draw the line
somewhere. I would not consider the instances in the Bile to be
substitutions but technical terminology, however when used as a
substitution it is a substitution. If you notice for example Ibn Ezra
uses the word Hashshem when refering to G-d's personal name. He is
clearly using it as replacement otherwise there would be no need for it
since you can write a dash for either.  Michael Linetsky


From: Meylekh Viswanath <pviswana@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:54:01 EST5EDT
Subject: Vegetarian food..

Zvi Weiss writes:
> Specifically, Bishul Akum still applies to food that is otherwise 
> kosher.  The poster did not fully describe the foods in question so I 
> could not tell whether this is an issue or not BUT that may be a serious 
> factor in the lack of "automatic" kashrut of vegetarian foods.

Isn't it true that a requirement for the iser (prohibition) of bishul
akum to apply is that the foods be khosheve maykholim (important foods),
which is interpreted to mean that they be fit for a king?  Perhaps
vegetarian food does not qualify.

Meylekh Viswanath


From: M E Lando <landom1@...>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:18:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Waiting a Year

I am posting this in support of Melech Press' comment on Yom
Ha'atz'ma'ut.  More than 20 years ago we invited Rav Nachman Bulman to
speak to the parents of the Hebrew Academy of Washington. He was to give
an overview of all the Yom Tovim.  He gave his customary, brilliant
lecture.  When he finished, a sabra yo're'det in the audience challenged
him as to why he had omitted Yom ha'atz'ma'ut and Yom Yerusholayim.

Ever quick on his feet, Rav Bulman replied using an analysis of the
S'fas Emes.  The S'fas Emes points out that the two yom tovim not found
in the Torah, Purim and Chanukah, both had a delayed acceptance.  In the
Megillah we find that Mordechai and Esther had to send out notices the
following year that K'lall Yisroel should celebrate the two days of
Purim. Only then does it say key'mu v'kib'lu.  I don't have a gemorah
Shabbos by the computer, but there it says, concerning Chanukah, l'shana
acheres, the next year the holiday was established.

Rav Bulman explained that the S"fas Emes emphasizes that before the
Gedolei Yisroel of those periods could establish a chag, they had to see
how the public reacted to the nissim.  If the reaction was one of ko'chi
v'atz'mi (my strength and ability) then a yom tov would be
inappropriate.  It was only when they saw that the public recognized the
yad hashem; that these periods could be commemorated l'ho'dos
u'l'hallel.  Rav Bulman emphasized that anyone witnessing the military
parades and the way the average Israeli celebrates yom ha'atz'ma'ut
could only conclude that they were celebrating kochi v'atzmi.  That is
why the gedolim of our generation could not declare these days to be yom

Chag Sameach.  May we all be zo'cheh to a true, meaningful and lasting 
kabolas hatorah.

Mordechai E. Lando ha'm'chu'na Yukum


End of Volume 19 Issue 90