Volume 19 Number 92
                       Produced: Wed Jun  7 10:18:58 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Zvi Weiss]
Divre Yoel at YU
         [Shalom Carmy]
Fleishig airline meals during 9 days
         [Jonathan Straight]
         [David Olesker]
Gehinnom (Was: Re: Marriages of Minor Daughters)
         [Art Kamlet]
How Crowded were the Camps?
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Notes from convention in Lakewood yeshiva
         [Simon Streltsov]
Percentage of First Born
         [Eliyahu Teitz]
Salt on the Challah on Friday Night
         [Oren Popper]
Sefer Hazikaron for Rav Moshe Feinstein
         [Michael J Broyde]
         [Erwin Katz]
The origin of the Cantillations
         [M. Linetsky]
Tzdaka opportunity
         [Malka Goldberg]
Vegetarian Foods and Kashrus
         [Laurie Solomon]


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:43:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Clarification

I believe that I may have been misunderstood.  I have always thought
that a p'sak is very tailored to the *circumstances* of the individual
question.  In that respect, Eli Turkel is absolutely correct.  However,
I do not equate the need to be careful as to the *circumstances* of the
question as being identical with the notion of "circles" -- somehow
implying that the p'sak is tailored to one's "political" or "group"
leanings.  In that respect, I disagree... *based upon the
circumstances*, the p'sak applies to anyone with those same

In the example cited, if a "Me'ah She'arim boy" had expressed an
interest in serving a "Young Israel" community, I see no reason to
question the notion that *for those circumstances*, Rav Shlomo Zalman
ZT"L would have endorsed college (or told the boy that he was making an
"incompatible" career choice -- if such a boy was really unable to
handle college).

In many (if not most) cases, IMHO, there is little practical
distinction, however.



From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 17:38:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Divre Yoel at YU

A poster alleges that Kol Dodi Dofek is not read at Ponivezh. I don't
know of anyone at Ponivezh who has read the Rav zt"l's works (except for
R. Schach who, I am informed, is interested only in the purely halakhic
writings). It is hard to imagine that in an institution of that size
there will not be found a few intrepid souls.

Every once in a while I get inquiries from various individuals (often in
positions of authority) within the black hat and Hasidic world. These
people are studying, usually surreptitiously, books "on the index."
Their exposure may be limited and naive (hence the desire for occasional
guidance), and the lack of previous exposure may lead to unnecessary
crises. But curiosity is natural to intelligent people.

The same poster is unsure whether the works of the Satmar Rebbe, z"l are
studied at YU. Here I am on surer ground. I have quoted his works on
occasion, both in class and in private. I also delivered a lecture at
Yale, several years ago, on the Satmar Rebbe's interpretation of the
Moreh Nevukhim. Several YU alumni were present, and none indicated any


From: Jonathan Straight <jonathan@...>
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 17:13:23
Subject: Re: Fleishig airline meals during 9 days

I think Mr Werchutz will find there is little problem in specifying
vegetatarian or fish kosher airline food. As the meals will need to be
specially ordered anyway then specify this when booking.

Jonathan Straight


From: David Olesker <olesker@...>
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 00:42:42 +0300
Subject: Re: Gambling

The recent dicussion reminds me of an incident when I was a bochur. My
chvrusa and I approached our Gemara rebbi with the question "Is gambling
permitted?"  As expected he said "No!", at wich point I turned to my
chreusa and said "See, I told you so, that's fifty shekels you owe me!"
	You should have seen my Rebbi's face (8-)


From: <ask@...> (Art Kamlet)
Date: 6 Jun 1995   9:47 EDT
Subject: Gehinnom (Was: Re: Marriages of Minor Daughters)

<sbechhof@...> (Yosef Bechhofer) writes:
>     For the record, I would like to state clearly and categorically
>that, IMHO, there is an extra special place in Gehinnom (I leave it for
>our Moderator to decide whether that term may be translated precisely on
>MJ) [I'll guess that most people know and for those who don't, drop me a
>line. Mod] for fathers so evil V....

Why make a big deal about Gehinnom?  I live in Columbus, about 2 miles
from Gahanna, Ohio.  Gahanna is the English name applied to Gehinnom,
and I've asked folks who live there what Gahanna means, and the best
I've gotten was "It's a Biblical Name."  Gahanna also has signs as you
enter, which say, "Welcome To Gahanna, The herb capital of the world."

Art Kamlet   AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus   <a.s.kamlet@...>


From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 6 Jun 1995 11:52:01 +0200
Subject: How Crowded were the Camps?

It seems to me from the numbers in Numbers (BaMidbar) that the camps
were fairly crowded.  The total area of the camps of the twelve shvatim
(tribes) was 4 x 2000 x 2000 = 16 million square amos (cubits) --
excluding the central area occupied by the Leveim (Levites).  There were
603,550 adult males inhabiting this area, along with their families.
Assuming that each male was married and the head of a family, this comes
to 26.5 square amos per family, equivalent to a square 5.15 amos on a
side (about 7.5 feet).  This is not a lot of space.  It must have been
pretty crowded.  Has anyone seen anything about this in the meforshim


From: <simon1@...> (Simon Streltsov)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:31:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Notes from convention in Lakewood yeshiva

I transcribed some of the talks at the convention for Russians at
Lakewood Yeshiva (March,95) [ Rav Kotler, Novominsker Rebbe, Rav

to retrieve use the web server or send a message
get russian-jews log9506
(reply to this message is configured there!)

Simcha Streltsov 			     to subscribe send
Moderator of Russian-Jews List		     sub russian-jews <fullname>
<simcha@...>		     to listproc@shamash.nysernet.org
via WWW:    gopher://shamash.nysernet.org:70/hh/lists/russian-jews    
via gopher: shamash.nysernet.org         Path=1/lists/russian-jews


From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:45:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Percentage of First Born

Abraham Lebowitz raised some interesting question concerning the
relatively small number of first born in the general Jewish population.
One possible answer can be based on a medrash concerning the number of
Jews who left Egypt.  The pasuk states ( Shmot 13:18 ) va-chamushim alu
B'nei Yisrael.  The medrash claims that the word chamushim can be
understood as 1/5, that only 20% of the Jews left Egypt, the rest dying
during the darkness according to the Medrash ( or possibly left behind
as totally assimilated Egyptian - Jewishly dead in the darkness of
Egyptian culture ).

While it is likely that the percentages were the same make up as the 20%
who left Egypt, it is possible that a larger percentage of first born
were left behind ( maybe large families had a stronger support system
and were less apt to succumb to the draw of Egyptian culture ).



From: Oren Popper <opopper@...>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:17:42 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Re: Salt on the Challah on Friday Night

In M-J V.19 #81 Jeffrey Woolf <F12043@...> wrote:
> .... Thus, since Hallah is generally made with salt, salt need not
> be added. As a result, the only time you NEED to put salt on bread is
> Pesach because matzot are baked without salt.

It may be remarked here that it is customary NOT to put salt on the
Matza eaten at the Seder in order not to have anything overwhelm the
taste of the Matzas Mitzvah

Oren Popper <opopper@...>


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:50:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sefer Hazikaron for Rav Moshe Feinstein

I was told that there was a sefer published by MTJ as a sefer hazikaron 
to Rav Moshe Feinstein that contains a teshuva by him on tochacha 
issues.  Does anyone have the sefer (and would you consider faxing me the 
article at 404 727-6820 or mailing it to me at School of Law, Emory 
University, Atlanta, GA 30322).
I will summarize the teshuva on mail.jewish if someone will send it to me.
Michael Broyde


From: ERWIN_KATZ_at_~<7BK-ILN-CHICAGO@...> (Erwin Katz)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 14:54:45 CST
Subject: Tenaim

In reading the various statements about Tenaim I thought you might be
interested in what happened at my brother's wedding. I entered into
Tenaim four months before my wedding. My brother let it go until the
wedding itself. At the wedding were both Harav Moshe Feinstein and Harav
Eliezer Silver. Harav Silver refused to allow Tenaim to be written just
before the wedding (presumably on the theory that they were then
meaningless). Harav Moshe Feinstein stated we should proceed with the
Tenaim if the chasan wanted to. Harav Silver left for fifteen minutes or
so in order to accommodate the family and the tenaim proceeded. Both
Rabbanim participated in the Chupa.


From: 81920562%<TAONODE@...> (M. Linetsky)
Date: Fri 02 Jun 1995 08:31 ET
Subject: The origin of the Cantillations

In Vol 84 there was a message about the cantillations, their origin and
behaviour. There are many different theories about the origin of the
cantillations. Rabbi Joseph ibn Kaspi, for example maintained that they
were determined by `Anshe Kenesth Haggedhola , while Rabbi Judah ibn
Bal'am (in an Arabic section of his original to Horayoth Haqqore) seems
to attribute them an even later origin. However, I do not understand how
one can consider the cantillations to be deterministic as there are
clearly areas where two cantillations could syntactically appear and as
Rabbi Mordechai Breuer claims, it may be simply for musical
considertaions. The cantillations are know also to adjust for the sake
of uniformity with the proximate passages i.e. that if a few passage
have a similar cantillational make-up, a passage which is slightly
different in structure may mimic this pattern. This may also be due to
musical considerations. However, though it may be true that the
cantillatons serve as syntactical dividers, the idea of syntax as seen
by the Masoretes is not the same as ours, the units are
different. Therefore, the cantillations do not always divide the passage
in accordance to normative syntactic rules and therefore may not always
be used to prove the correct understanding of the passage. Ibn Ezra for
instance, who states in his book Maznaim: any interpretation that does
not conform to the cantillations do not listen to and do not sway to
it". Yet he admits in many places that a passage may be divided in
contradiction (so called) to normative division of the cantillations. By
the way, the art scroll book on Rabbi Ya'akov Kaminetsky claims that he
was able to insert the correct cantillations into any passage just by
knowing the rules. I am not certain how this is possible

HAG SAMEAH and Tel Hai
Michael Linetsky


From: <goldberg@...> (Malka Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:25:23 +0200 (WET)
Subject: Tzdaka opportunity

	There is a family in Jerusalem that is in great need of
money. The couple's only child, after several years of marriage, is a 5
month old baby with Stickler's syndrome. The baby has a hole in the
heart, cleft palate, clubbed feet and due to the cleft palate, has a
tracheotomy for breathing and a gastro-intestinal tube for eating. The
baby is relatively stable and will undergo surgery as soon as he has
gained sufficient weight.  Indeed, the prognosis for recovery is very

Meanwhile, he is at home, where he requires 24 hour a day
supervision--mostly to ensure the tracheotomy is clear--suction being
required sometimes.

The couple have been taking turns staying up all night. Now they would
like to hire a nurse for 6-8 hours a night, four nights a week. The
rough cost is somewhere between 3000-4000 SHEKELS a month.

I have been asking people for a monthly portion of their ma'aser money,
and have so far obtained some 1800 shekels a month. I am now turning to
mail-jewish to raise additional funds. Even a small contribution that
people could make on a monthly basis would be helpful. Anyone who wishes
to contribute should please contact me via my husband's email,
<goldberg@...>, or can call me, Malka, at 02-430-251, for
further details.

The baby's name is Yisrael Meir ben Bracha Yona Tamar.

Malka Goldberg


From: Laurie Solomon <0002557272@...>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 11:22 EST
Subject: RE: Vegetarian Foods and Kashrus

Another concern for eating vegetarian foods/at restaurants without a
hechshar (supervision) is that vegetables, herbs, legumes and many
grains have to be checked for bugs. In fact, in many restaurants, the
main job of the mashgiach (kosher supervisor) is cheking the
lettuce,chinese cabbage, etc.

That's why it's not a good idea to eat at a non-kosher restaurant or
non-supervised restaurant, and "just eat salad".  In fact, this may even
be a problem with shomer kashrus people, and eating salad in their
homes...if they have not learned and aren't careful in this aspect of

Laurie Cohen


End of Volume 19 Issue 92