Volume 20 Number 01
                       Produced: Thu Jun 15  1:44:37 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Administrivia - Mail-Jewish Bi-Annual Picnic/BBQ
         [Avi Feldblum]
         [Elozor M. Preil]
Fluorescent lights for havdalah
         [Mike Gerver]
Halel, Tachnun on Yom Ha' atzmaut
         [Zishe Waxman]
Hamevin Yavin
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Hebrew Grammar with names
         [Micahel Linetsky]
HIGAYON Symposium
         [Moshe KOPPEL]
Hillel Disagreeing With Shammai
         [Micha Berger]
Jewish cemetaries
         [Laurie Solomon]
Meeting Economists in Israel
         [M E Lando]
Origin of Life (Jewish view)
         [Joseph Seckbach]
Saying Hallel with a Bracha
         [Russell Benasaraf]
Significance of the Number "40"
         [Sheila Peck]
         [Bob Werman]


From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum>
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 11:16:41 -0400
Subject: Administrivia - Mail-Jewish Bi-Annual Picnic/BBQ

Hello All,

It's summer, it's an odd numbered year, so it's time for the bi-annual
mail-jewish picnic/BBQ in Highland Park, NJ. It will be on Sunday, July
9 (just before we start the three weeks). More details to follow. I'm
looking forward to meeting many of you here!

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish moderator


From: <rpry@...> (Elozor M. Preil)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:46:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Cosmetics

I'd like to share an insight I had the privelege to hear from Harav
Moshe Feinstein zt"l.  Thje occasion was the "aufruf" of his grandson
somme twenty years ago.

Aishes Chayil concludes with the famous lines, "Sheker hachen v'hevel
hayofi- Beauty is false and meaningless - Isha yiras Hashem hee tishalol
- the woman who fears G-d is worthy of praise."  Rav Moshe zt"l said,
the woman who fears G-d should be praised for her chen and yofi (beauty
and charm), too.

Elozor M. Preil


From: <GERVER@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 4:00:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Fluorescent lights for havdalah

In shul on the first night of Shavuot, which was motzei Shabbat this
year, the person making kiddush looked around for something to make
"borei me'orei ha-eish" on, and not finding any candles, used the ner
tamid, which is an incandescent light. He avoided using the main shul
lights, which are all fluorescent. I asked the rabbi about this
afterward, and he said that while there are some opinions that
incandescent lights may be used for "borei me'orei ha-eish," everybody
agrees that fluorescent lights may not be used. But he did not know the
reasons behind this. I can think of some ways in which incandescent
lights are more like candle flames than fluorescent lights are, e.g. in
both incandescent lights and ordinary flames (whose emission is
dominated by glowing soot particles), the light is dominated by
blackbody radiation, in thermal equilibrium with the atoms emitting it,
while in fluorescent lights line radiation dominates. On the other hand,
in fluorescent lights, as in flames, the light is emitted by a plasma,
while in incandescent lights it is emitted by a solid filament. Also, if
you soak a candle wick in a table salt solution before lighting it (and
let it dry out), then the emission would be dominated by sodium line
radiation; would this mean that such a flame cannot be used for
havdalah? Does anyone know why incandescent lights are considered to be
more like a flame than fluorescent lights are, for purposes of havdalah?

Mike Gerver, <gerver@...>


From: <waxman@...> (Zishe Waxman)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:58:19 EDT
Subject: Halel, Tachnun on Yom Ha' atzmaut

There has been considerable discussion on the list about the various
permutations of halel, tachnun, braca, no bracha on Yom Ha' atzmaut.

I would like to propose that we say **BOTH** halel and tachnun. The
reasoning is quite simple. There are two aspects to the current phase of
our ongoing geulah: The "medina" aspect and the "memshala" aspect. The
"medina", the fact of Jewish sovereignty after such a long absence would
seem to argue for a joyous outpouring of public thanksgiving,
i.e. halel. But the "memshala" aspect, the current government and it's
policies, well... :-)

Zishe Waxman


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:25:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hamevin Yavin

     I'm sorry that this is a belated reply.
     Somebody wrote that the phrase HAMEVIN YAVIN is to be found
in the Yerushalmi.  This is incorrect.  It is not found anywhere in the
Yerushalmi. (I'm no expert, I did a search using Davka's    Shas on
CD-ROM.)  I did manage to find (using the same method above) that
the Maharal in Derech Chaim Perek 6 uses such an expression as well
as in Chiddushei Agados on Sanhedrin 102b.  It could be found earlier
or in some abbreviation.  I didn't know what the abbreviation might be
so I couldn't look.



From: 81920562%<TAONODE@...> (Micahel Linetsky)
Date: Fri 09 Jun 1995 10:05 ET
Subject: Hebrew Grammar with names

In vol 98 there was a response to the question: why do we say HA-RAMBAM
but just RASHI in indefinite form. The response was that perhaps since
Rambam was confined to a separate book it was possible to refer to the
book itself. The only problem I would like to raise is that we say the
Ramban, the Hizquni, the Ibn Ezra, the Klei yaqar despite that they
appear in our Bibles. Not only that is there any other name or acronym
which is not preceded by the definite article? Perhaps the lack of the
definite article shows the particular affinity that we have for RASHI|

Why does a Yeshivah need grammar. It is well known that Rambam (no
definite article|) in his commentary to pirqei avoth on the discussion
of "what is the straight path one should chose for himself?" states that
the study of the Hebrew Language is a Biblical precept (Miswah
De'oraitha). That there is a need to study Hebrew Grammar is stated in
the Sifri and in a few places in Talmud, and is cited by Ibn Janah in
his introduction to Kitab alluma'. That in itself however is not the
argument. There are those that claim that we do not hold like the Rambam
(with a definite article) in this case and that there are
priorities. This quite a convenient pesaq, but there is a difference
between priority and preclusion| Indeed Ibn Ezra in his Yesodh Morah
states that although the Talmud is of paramount and central importance
as there is not one precept we could learn without it, we may not be
void of Grammar and the sciences since it will no doubt lead us to
crooked understanding of the Torah.

Shalom and Tel Hai
Micahel Linetsky


From: Moshe KOPPEL <koppel@...>
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 11:12:05 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: HIGAYON Symposium


The third HIGAYON symposium on logic and halakhah will take place next 
Monday, June 19, in the Economics Building of Bar-Ilan University.
This year's symposium will focus on issues concerning halakhah and 
probability. All the lectures/shiurim will be given in Hebrew.
Sefer HIGAYON, a collection of papers on the use of modern concepts in 
understanding halakhah (based on lectures given at the first HIGAYON 
conference), will be available for the first time at the symposium. The 
book includes articles by Rabbis Norman Lamm, Adin Steinsaltz, Nachum 
Rabinovich, Michael Rosensweig and many other first-rate scholars from 
academia and yeshivot.
The schedule of the symposium is as follows:

 9:45  Greetings  Moshe Kaveh  (Rector, Bar-Ilan)
10:00  Granting of Brachfeld Prize
10:20  Yakov Werblowski   Yeshivas Pressburg   
            "Ruba D'isa Kaman and Probability"
10:45  Coffee Break
11:00  Leib Moscovits   Dept. of Talmud, Bar-Ilan
             "A New Approach to 'Rov' and 'Itchazek Issura' "
11:45  R. Nechemia Taylor  Kollel, Bar-Ilan
             "Categories of 'Rov' " 

       LUNCH BREAK  

 2:00  Yakar Kanai   Dept. of Mathematics, Weizmann Institute
             "Abstraction and Simplicity in Law and Nature"
 3:00  Mincha/Coffee Break 
 3:15  Meir Schwartz   Machon Lev
             " On the Principle of 'Kakh Shiaru Chakhamim' "
 4:00  R. Meir Shlesinger   Jerusalem (formerly Yeshivat Shaalvim)
             "Probability and Halakhic Aspects of Resolving Uncertainty" 

Those who have seen earlier announcements should note that Yakar Kanai is 
speaking in place of R. Nachum Rabinovich whose name appeared in the 
original schedule.

All are invited to attend. No charge.
Direct inquiries to:
<koppel@...>  or  merzbach@bimacs.cs.biu.ac.il


From: Micha Berger <aishdas@...>
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:16:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hillel Disagreeing With Shammai

Moishe Kimmelman (v19n98) questions my statement that the three cases
in Eduyos are the only three questions on which Hillel and Shammai argued.
He cites:

> I have seen this statement quoted before on a number of occasions, but in 
> fact - as stated in Yerushalmi Chagigah 2:2 (daf 10b in the standard 
> efition) - there are four disputes between Hillel and Shammai.  The three 
> quoted at the beginning of tractate Eduyos (which may be the reason behind 
> the statement that there were only three disputes), and the dispute in the 
> mishnah in Chagigah concerning the permissibility of being somech 
> ("leaning") on the sacrifice on Yomtov.

In Collected Writings, Rabbiner Hirsch asks about this. The terminology in
Eduyos seems to imply that it was presenting a canonical list. He feels that
sometime between the braisa quoted in the Yerushalmi, and the mishna in
Eduyos, one of the two renegged, leaving only three open questions.


From: Laurie Solomon <0002557272@...>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 14:54 EST
Subject: Jewish cemetaries

Although not a a particularly happy topic, I found a recent incident
thought provoking and I thought I'd pose the following to the m-j list.

Recently, a co-worker's brother was buried in a Jewish cemetary,
although he wasn't Jewish himself.  It got me wondering about what the
halachas (laws) are for burial.  It is my understanding that Jews are
supposed to be buried in Jewish cemetaries. If so, why is this non-Jew
being buried there?  Does that affect the others buried there?

My husband told me that there are usually separate sections for those
that are shomer shabbos and for non-shomer shabbos.

Are there any sources that discuss the requirements for burial, and
actually what is supposed to happen if one were to not follow these
requirements-- what is supposed to happen to your soul or the body? or
maybe it is important for the resurrection of the dead when mashiach

Laurie Cohen


From: M E Lando <landom1@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:46:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Meeting Economists in Israel

My wife and I plan iy'h to be in Eretz Yisroel from 28 Tammuz till 19
Av.  I am a health economist with special interests in medical manpower
and social security.  For the last 20 years my focus has been on the
Social Security Disability Insurance program in the U.S.

I would be interested in meeting fellow readers of m-j with similar 
interests during our stay.  For those who prefer voice-mail
	office 410-965-8117
	home   410-358-8729

Mordechai E. Lando ha'm'chu'na Yukum


From: Joseph Seckbach <seckbach@...>
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 00:30:47 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Re: Origin of Life (Jewish view)

	I am interested to hear Jewish sources and references for the
origin of first living organism. What is the Jewish view on "Chemical
Evolution, biological evolution" (on the lower cellular level, first
bacterial cell, prokaryotic organism etc.). I would appreciate if you
point out any source on this subject.
                                          Joseph Seckbach
                                    e-mail: <seckbach@...> 
					     Fax: 972-2-9931-832


From: Russell Benasaraf <76506.2607@...>
Date: 12 Jun 95 16:43:23 EDT
Subject: Saying Hallel with a Bracha

Concerning recent posts from Dov Ettner and Lon Eisenberg, there are
differing Sephardic minhageem (customs) concerning the bracha for
Hallel.  When we say the full Hallel we say "Legmor Et HaHallel." When
we say a half Hallel, there are two minhageem. The Sephardem from Arabic
cultures (those whom spoke Arabic i.e. Syrian, Iraqi etc.) don't say any
bracha on half Hallel.  The Sephardem from a Spanish culture (those who
spoke Ladino i.e. Spanish Morocco, Greece, Holland etc.) say the bracha
Likro Et HaHallel on half Hallel.

There may be other minhageem, but I hope this clarifies things for you.

Russell (Reuven)  Benasaraf

[Similar point made by <JMOSSERI@...> (Joseph Mosseri) and by Zvi
Weiss who adds that the Persian communities follow the Spanish culture
minhag identified above. Mod.]


From: <Sheila2688@...> (Sheila Peck)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:12:16 -0400
Subject: Significance of the Number "40"

Could someone please talk about the significance of the number "40" as
used in the Old Testament: "40 days and 40 nights of the flood"; "40
days on the mount", etc.?

Please reply by e-mail: <Sheila2688@...>
Thank you.


From: <RWERMAN@...> (Bob Werman)
Date: Tue,  13 Jun 95 18:18 +0200
Subject: Who-is-a-Parent.

Yossi Goldstein says,
> "whoever raises a friends child, the torah considers as if he bore that
> child)

I would like to remind the readers that the Hebrew for parent, hore, is
cousin of teacher, more. Both are derived from yod-resh-heh, to
permeate, penetrate, to throw.  The function is both physical and

__Bob Werman  <rwerman@...>   Jerusalem


End of Volume 20 Issue 1