Volume 20 Number 26
                       Produced: Thu Jun 29 22:33:05 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

"Making Up" a lost Kaddish Shalem
         [Yitz Etshalom]
         [Yechezkal-Shimon Gutfreund]
Child marriages
         [Aryeh Frimer]
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Kedusha Ketana: New information CORRECT?
         [Gedaliah Friedenberg]
Kids & mezuza question
         [Constance Stillinger]
Marrying off Minor Daughters
Mixed Marriage Ceremony
R. Zevin, translated and improved
         [Shalom Carmy]


From: Yitz Etshalom <rebyitz@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 09:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "Making Up" a lost Kaddish Shalem

We had an interesting question here at camp this morning (1st day Rosh 
Chodesh Tammuz). 
The Shaliach Tzibbur for Shacharit, after completing the Hallel, recited 
half-Kaddish.  Although several of us "reminded" him to complete the 
Kaddish (including Titkabel), he ignored us and went straight to "Vay'hi 

We felt that there were five options, only three of which seemed faintly 
1) Have him stop at that point and say the entire Kaddish from the beginning;
2) Have him stop at that point and say the last three lines - the part he 
left out;
3) Add those three lines to the half-Kaddish said at the end of K'riat 
4) Add those three lines to the half-Kaddish said after "Uva leTziyyon";
5) Do nothing.

We have not been able to locate a discussion on this situation in the 
usual sources.  Ideas?


From: sg04%<kesser@...> (Yechezkal-Shimon Gutfreund)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 14:43:58 EDT
Subject: Adoption

A women (who does not have Internet access) contacted me and asked me to
post this for her:

Wanted for adoption: baby born of a Jewish mother, by a warm loving
family. If anyone is able to help or provide pointers to services that
could help, it would be appreciated.

Yechezkal-Shimon Gutfreund		 	            <sgutfreund@...> 
GTE Laboratories,Waltham MA      http://info.gte.com/ftp/circus/home/home.html


From: Aryeh Frimer <F66235%<BARILAN.bitnet@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 95 10:20 O
Subject: Child marriages

This morning's Hatzofeh has a front page story to the effect that Rav
Shlomo Zalman Auerbach Paskened in August 1994 that unless the father
produces the witnesses he is not believed. The article does not give any
more details as to the reasoning of the Psak. As pure speculation, I
suggest that despite the fact that the Torah normally believed the
the Father when he says he married off his minor daughter, in this case
we have sound reason to suspect he's lying.
The article then repeats that which was written in haTzofeh earlier in
the week (seems I erred in my previous post - it was Hatzofeh of Sunday
not Friday) that Rav She'ar Yashuv Kohen maintains that such child
weddings can be annulled by afkinan kedushin mineih because it would
lead to widespread problems which leave the daughters of Israel without
protection against wicked individuals and is a source of great Hillul
I hope written responsa are not long off!


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 21:10:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Generations

 On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Yeshaya Halevi wrote:

>        There is so much talk about how each generation is less than the
>  generation that preceded it, that I would like to propose the opposite;
>  a thought that some might think heretical.

      I don't know about heretical, more like wrong.  As we mentioned 
before, the gemora says that each generation is less than the previous.

>         I think that our generation in some ways is more holy than the
>  generation of Jews who left Egypt and received the Torah from God
>  Himself at Mt. Sinai.  And of course I include converts then and now.
>         The Exodus Generation witnessed the 10 plagues, the parting of
>  the sea, the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai, manna and the Pillars of
>  Fire and Smoke which accompanied the B'nai Yisrael (Children of Israel)
>  in the wilderness.  To believe in God in the face of so many miracles
>  was no great stretch, whether one was born an Israelite or even a
>  heathen Egyptian.
>          We, on the other hand, have not seen those miracles.  Instead we
>  witnessed in person or electronically the Holocaust, Hiroshima, mass
>  famine in the world, the trivialization and brutalization of humanity
>  and other blows to faith.
>           To believe in God in spite of this is, literally, awesome. Is
>  it not a much harder achievement than that of the Exodus/Sinai
>  generation?
>           And to have a convert not only believe in God but actually join
>  the People of Israel despite all this >>and<< the contempt in which so
>  many goyim hold us almost defies description.

     You think this way because you measure all generations by your 
standard.  You must realize that just as our yetzer tov is weaker than 
their yetzer tov, our yetzer hora is also weaker than their yetzer hora.   
     Hashem made a balance in creation (Zeh L'umas Zeh Oso Elokim). 
Without a balance there would not be freedom of choice.  It's possible
that with your actions you could have a seat next to Moshe Rabbeinu in the 
next world.  Because if you work on yourself hard enough your balance will be 
proportional to his.  
    You will never be as great as him on an equal standard but perhaps on a 
proportional standard.  One could also end up next to Korach, for that 
matter.  But don't minimize the test and trials of the desert 
generation.  They who wandered in the desert for forty years without the 
slightest inkling of where their next meal was coming from.  They had to 
have total trust in Hashem that everything would turn out for the best 
without making any physical effort to bring these things about.



From: Gedaliah Friedenberg <gedaliah@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:06:28 -0400
Subject: Kedusha Ketana: New information CORRECT?
Newsgroups: shamash.mail-jewish

In v20n23 Dr. Backon writes:

>I just noticed that Monday's YEDIOT newspaper in Israel had an article
>on the KEDUSHA KETANA incident. I was surprised to learn that the case
>had reached Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach z"l over a year ago and
>contrary to what was intimated on MJ 2 weeks ago, he paskened that the
>girl *was* ESHET ISH (married) and that nothing could be done except for
>major coercion on the father to reveal the name of the husband.

This is the exact opposite of what was reported in one of the NYC "frum"
newspapers in today's edition.  The article is not long, so I will
reporduce the important parts here:

Headline: Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Z"L, Found Alleged Bethrothal Of
Minor Daughter By Her Father Null And Void.

	"In a historic decision which was rendered by the great Torah
scholar of Jerusalem on August 7th, 1994, Rabbi Auerbach found that Sora
Leah Goldstein of Montreal was free to marry anyone she pleases when she
becomes of age, according to a personal interview with Rabbi Eliyahu
Rominek.  In a definitive decision he declared the testimony of Israel
Goldstein, Sora Leah's father, that he had bethrothed her to an unknown
husband was null and void.  The decision by Rabbi Auerbach is attested
to by his son Rabbi Baruch Auerbach and his secretary Rabbi Elimelech
	"Rabbi Auerbach rendered his decision in response to a detailed
written analysis of Jewish law prepared by Rabbi Eliahu Rominek, noted
scholar of Far Rockaway, New York.  Rabbi Auerbach fully agreed with
Rabbi Rominek's conclusion that Sora Leah Goldstein was naver married by
her father to an unknown husband.  Rabbi Auerbach furthermore requested
from Rabbi Rominek that he should publicize the decision to the Montreal
Jewish community.
	"Rabbi Auerbach's opinion has received the concurrence of two
outstanding Torah scholars.  Rabbi Zalman Nehemia Goldberg (son-in-law
of Rabbi Auerbach) and Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch (of the Jerusalem Bais Din
and the Edah Hacharedis).  Both of these two rabbis have written
separate treatises on this topic and concluded that Sora Leah is free to
marry whomever she pleases without requiring a get."



From: Constance Stillinger <cas@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 22:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Kids & mezuza question

My two-and-a-half-year-old son has recently become interested in our
mezuzot and likes to kiss them.

Is it permissible to put up a second one on his bedroom door down at
about 3', low enough for him to kiss?  Or to move the one that's there
down to that height?  What about doing this on one of the other doors,
not his bedroom?


Dr. Constance A. (Chana) Stillinger        <cas@...>
EPGY, Stanford Univ.   Morris's Mommy   "Hoppa Reyaha Gamogam" (Lev. 19:18)


From: <chips@...> (crp)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 19:17:51 -0700
Subject: Marrying off Minor Daughters

There has been much hang wringing about not having the ability nowadays
for a Rav or Rabbanute to effect major policy on the Jewish World. This is
simply not so, it only takes conviction of the purpose being correct AND
being held in esteem by the Yeshiva world. My proof? It is still osur to
open someone else's mail. "But this is from the Cherem Raban Gamliel" you say?
Not quite. That expired sometime in the '60s. Another Rav came and renewed
the Gezaras, and everyone accepted it.
So it is possible for a rule to be promulgated that would dis-allow this
spitefull, disgusting activity. We have seen in this maillist several 
good ideas and I'm sure that a Posek would be able to come up with more and
better ones. It will, however, require courage. I would say one of the shames
of our present day predictament is that we don't have a Rav Moshe ZTL, who
was willing to take on tough, difficult problems.


From: Anonymous
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 16:32:53 IST
Subject: Mixed Marriage Ceremony

For discussion purposes, I should like thoughts and sources on this
question: Should I attend the marriage ceremony of my niece who will be
marrying a goy, but the wedding ceremony will be performed only by a
Reform rabbi?  Should I acknowledge the event in any way, like a gift or
even a card?

[This has definitely been discussed here in the past, but I suspect that
this is a topic that will remain being discussed until the coming of the
Messianic Era, may it rapidly come. Mod.]


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 01:45:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: R. Zevin, translated and improved

> In Rabbi Zevin's book Ha'moadim Ba'halacha page 371 Hebrew edition, the
> last two lines did not make it to the English edition by Art
> Scroll. Dealing with the issue of: Do we need keriah (=tearing) over
> cities in Judea & Samaria?

The above excision was pointed out in Tradition about ten years ago. 
Those responsible for the English edition responded that R. Zevin had 
recanted his statement and that his widow had insisted on the change.

What is most interesting about this explanation is that the book, in its
original Hebrew, went through quite a few editions while R. Zevin was
still alive, and the author did not avail himself of the opportunity to
remove the offending passage. Apparently it took every moment of a very
long life for him to see the light and make a deathbed repentance. Also
curious is the fact that his change of heart reached the English audience
so far from Jerusalem, who have been spared exposure to his Zionistic
deviationism, but has yet to affect the Hebrew texts published in his back


End of Volume 20 Issue 26