Volume 20 Number 48
                       Produced: Sun Jul 16 15:17:21 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bedtime Sh'ma
         [Michael Anapol]
Gomel Bentshing
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Marshmallows (2)
         [Josh Wise, Zvi Weiss]
         [David Charlap]
Mixed Seating
         [Mordechai Perlman]
More Kid Questions: Bedtime Sh'ma and Marshmallows
         [Jeremy Nussbaum]
Pants for Bicycling
         [Linda Levi]
Seperate Seating at Weddings
         [Chaim Steinmetz]
The word "Teva" in the Zohar
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Wedding Minhagim
         [Gayle Statman]


From: Michael Anapol <manapol@...>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 08:49:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bedtime Sh'ma

In MJ 20/44, Connie Stillinger asked for suggestions to help the panic
that a little one feels because Sh'ma at bedtime ends storytime, etc.

	When our now 10 year old son was first with us (we adopted him
at 19 mo.), we would wait until bedtime, when he was sleepy and
suggestible, and say Sh'ma for him. After a while, he started saying the
words right along with us. Although we are not orthodox, bedtime prayers
are something we do observe.

	One thing I noticed when bedtime started to become a problem,
i.e. "Can't I stay up a little while longer?", just lying down and
saying his prayers would act as a soporific on Robbie sometimes, and he
would actually be asleep before they were completed, at which point his
Mother or I would complete them for him.

	BTW, when Robert (or Reuven, as he's called in school), first
joined our family and started attending a day school at age 3, (Kinneret
Day School in NY, a wonderful environment for a non-orthodox child), he
seemed to think that all strange-sounding words were Hebrew. I was
describing a pending business trip to the Meditterranean on the phone,
and the other party was familiar with my destinations, as I repeated the
names of the cities, Algeciras, Valencia, Fos, Livorno, Robert piped up
what he thought was the expected response, "Omayn!"


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 21:16:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Gomel Bentshing

Mike Gerver wrote:

     >Someone asked why one should, according to some opinions, bentsh
     >gomel after any plane flight, but not after driving the same
     >distance in a car, which is much more dangerous statistically.

Mike goes on to suggest an interesting solution.  This solution is only
valid for Ashkenazim, however, because Sepharadim have the custom (as
per the p'sak of Rav Ovadia Yosef) to bentsh gomel if they have made a
journey of 1.5 hours, a time which he apparently considered dangerous
enough to require its recitation.



From: Josh Wise <jdwise@...>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:30:17 EDT
Subject: Marshmallows

The problem with marshmallows is the gelatin. Gelatin is derived from
animal bones. Unless otherwise noted the gelatin companies don't care
whether the bones were taken from a kosher or non-kosher animal.
	Several years ago, a company by the name of Elyon decided to
produce a gelatin (known as "Kolatin") which is derived solely from the
bones of Kosher animals. It is under the hashgacha of the O-U, and is
universally accepted. (That is, by those who accept the O-U in the first
	An interesting twist to the gelatin question occurs in the
differences between the American and Israeli customs regarding gelatin
(and the necessity for using only bones from Kosher animals). When I was
in Israel for the year, I saw a candy which said "Kosher under the
supervision of the Chief Rabbinate for those who eat gelatin." I asked
the Rav at my yeshiva and he said that it was "a stupid American chumra
(stringency)" to refrain from eating (regular) gelatin.
	I'm sure that many people are familiar with the "kosher"
marshmallows that only appear around Pesach-time.  I would suspect that
these are acceptable in Israel, but the custom of the American Orthodox
community is not to accept them

Josh Wise

From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:00:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Marshmallows

People who have access to Lakewood (and I am sure other places, as well)
can get Kosher Marshmallows under the Elyon Label.  This stuff is made
with *real* GELATIN which is also Kosher and Parve.  You can also get
"Jello-style" deserts under the Elyon Label -- which are just like
"J-e-l-l-o"...  Hope that this helps.



From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 17:40:04 EDT
Subject: Marshmellows

Constance Stillinger <cas@...> writes:
>I'd appreciate it if someone would remind me what the low-down is on the
>kashrut of marshmallows.  Are there *any* kosher (by Orthodox standards)
>brands, and what are they?

I've seen one brand in the New York area.  I've only seen it sold around
Pesach time, for some reason.

There's no reason why there can't be kosher marshmellows.  You don't
have to make them with gelatin, the way most brands are.  The kosher
ones use egg whites and other vegetable-source ingredients.

-- David


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:34:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Mixed Seating

On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, Chaim Wasserman wrote:

> Let me append to this an incident which occured with my
> soon-to-be-musmach son about to get married in the summer 1987. He
> wanted, as is expected of this generation, separate seating and a
> mechitah at the wedding. When the parent generation told him that they
> saw no necessity for even it "In Lithuania in Telshe they didn't have
> such an arrangement" he stridently rejected that assertion spouting all
> sorts of (worthy) Torah information.
> It took strenuous urging to get him to call Rav Gifter whose opinion I
> personally heard years before directly from him of the halachic irony
> that has developed as a result of the mechitzah at a wedding. He told me
> in my car on the way to a wedding in the Catskills his estimation of the
> mechitzah and that in the original Telshe they didn't have such
> arrangements.
> ... 
> Is there anyone who has a grandparent or older who derives from
> Frankfort-am-Main who could reliably report what was done in the
> tradition of SR Hirsch, R. Ezriel Hildesheimer and R. Dovid Zvi
> Hoffmann?

     The minhag in Washington Heights today is that the men sit on one
side of the room whereas the women on the other side.
     However, quoting what they used to do in Telshe or Warsaw 50 years
ago is entirely irrelevant to today' situation.  Okay, let's not talk
about halacha.  Maybe you're right, there is no halacha about mixed
seating at weddings or other gatherings (at least in Lithuanian Poskim)
but the fact remains that today, call it a minhag, call it hora'as
sha'a, the times are such that increased separation of the genders on
occasions when frivolty are present should not be frowned on.  On the
contrary, they should be applauded.  The times are such that
unfortunately the Yetzer Hara is around every corner, in all circles,
among the best people, because we are so absorbed into the society of
the street whether we recognize it or not. The fact is that 15 years ago
in our yeshiva there was no mechitza between men and women at simchos
and today there is.  I think that the Roshei Hayeshiva are very much
attuned to the prevailing spirit of the times and are trying to prevent
what might occur in the future if nothing is done about it now.



From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 13:16:07 EDT
Subject: More Kid Questions: Bedtime Sh'ma and Marshmallows

> >From: Constance Stillinger <cas@...>
> I'd appreciate it if someone would remind me what the low-down is on the
> kashrut of marshmallows.  Are there *any* kosher (by Orthodox standards)
> brands, and what are they?

There is the Kolatin brand of gelatin made from fish parts, which is
kosher according to all.  There is a significant premium for this
gelatin (e.g. $2+ vs $1 for the marshmallows), and marshmallows made
from it are available from a number of companies.

While the subject is raised, can some of the older or more historically
oriented mj'er kindly enlighten me on the history of the european kosher
gelatin business, particularly on the details of the preparation and the
widespreadness of acceptance of this.  As far as I can tell, there is
very little explicit acceptance of this product in the Orthodox
communities in the US these days.

> Also, my little kid (2.5) screams when we try to say the Sh'ma with him
> right before bed, because he *knows* that means story time etc is over
> for the night.  Would it be permissible to say it with him before
> reading stories?  (I'm accustomed to the tradition of making it the last
> thing before lights out.)  More generally, how do you handle introducing
> the bedtime prayers with *your* little-bitty kids?

I have for a long time said shma with my younger daughter before the
last story, so she could fall asleep during the story without any issue.
My older daughter for a long time has insisted on saying the shma
herself. :-(

While on the subject, I'm curious what "Jewish bedtime rituals" other
parents out there are accustomed to.

Shabat Shalom!

Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)


From: <MSGraphics@...> (Linda Levi)
Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 20:54:16 -0400
Subject: Pants for Bicycling

I used to race and tour a lot and I still enjoy bicycling whenever
possible.  I used to rationalize that it was ok to wear pants.  Riding
in a skirt with pants underneath makes me feel less than modest, as I
attract attention by looking ridiculous.  Nevertheless, I have asked
this shaila of my Rav- and he has not been comfortable with any way
around it. It's that, or give up altogether. So now, I attempt to bike
on more private trails.

Sometimes, a committment to doing the right thing, (relying on the paths
that our gedolim have already blazed and cleared for us, accepting that
others with more das Torah than we have can interpret halacha in ways
that make more sense than we can possibly understand,) is more difficult
than others.

I'm sure not all Rabbis will answer as strictly, but I urge you to ask a
reliable posek. Safety is not the issue here- sniut is.  Thanking Hashem
properly- while enjoying those "perfect bike days" He sends us- is.
BTW- loose culots that are long enough to be suitable are far more
dangerous than skirts- and more likely to get caught in the spokes.


From: <Chaimstein@...> (Chaim Steinmetz)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:23:04 -0400
Subject: Seperate Seating at Weddings

While personally my minhag is like those who do not have a mechitzah at
wedings, I would like to note that the idea of seperate seating at
events is not completely without basis. For example, the Gemara in
Sanhedrin (20a) is clear that men and women stood seperately at
funerals, even though (as Tosafot s.v. "nashim" points out) there is far
less problems of mixing between the sexes at a funeral.



From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:18:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The word "Teva" in the Zohar

Somebody wrote that the Zohar contains words that are mideival in style 
such as the word "Teva" (nature).  I have used a computer to search the 
Zohar and no such word came up.  The only word that did come up was 
spelled like "Teva" (Tes, Bais, Ayin) but was a misprint and should have 
been spelled "Tovo" (Tes, Bais, Aleph) meaning good as the words in the 
Zohar were "Yoma Tovo" (Good day).



From: Gayle Statman <GAYLE_STATMAN@...>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 12:42:50 EST
Subject: Re: Wedding Minhagim

Chaim Wasserman asked:
>why couldn't all pictures with the chosson/kallah together be taken 
>(or at least most of them) several hours before the wedding 
>smorgasbord and only the joint extended family pictures after the 
>chuppah since not everyone in the family arrives so early.  When 
>asked about this in August of 1959 shortly before my wedding, Rav 
>Moshe zatzal told me "Fahr vos nisht?" "Why not?" 

Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought the chosson and kallah were
not permitted to see each other before the chuppah.  Did I



End of Volume 20 Issue 48