Volume 20 Number 53
                       Produced: Thu Jul 20  9:50:52 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

2 Days Yom Tov
         [Eli Turkel]
Administrative Requests (2)
         [Shmuel Himelstein (n), Avi Feldblum]
         [Manny Lehman]
Batsheva / Nevuchadnezzar
         [Eli Turkel]
Electricity on Shabbat in Israel
         [Elie Rosenfeld]
Fasting on Friday - Asarah BeTevet
         [Shmuel Himelstein (n)]
haftorah from scroll
         [Eliyahu Teitz]
Method for Partitioning Erets Yisroel
         [Meylekh Viswanath]
Proper pronunciation
         [Richard Schultz]


From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:56:48 -0400
Subject: 2 Days Yom Tov

    Ari Shapiro brings down the argument of Rambam and Ritva whether the
two days of Yom Tov depend on where the messengers reached in the old

1. There are stories that the Brisker Rav kept 2 days of yom tov in
   Jerusalem based on Rambam because he assumed that the ancient city of
   Jerusalem did not extend to the section of the modern city in which
   he lived.

He adds
>> it would depend on whether Eilat is considered part of the land of Israel.

2. More to the point it depends on the definition of the land of Israel.
   There are many such definitions, e.g. the land that the avos claimed,
   the land in first temple days, second temple days etc. It is far from
   clear that the definition of Israel for 2 days of Yom Tov has
   anything in common with the definition for tithes (terumot and

    It is generally accepted that the southern portion of the Negev is
outside of Israel in terms of laws that depend on the land. Some feel
that an Israeli taking a trip to Eilat is going to "chutz la-artez"
(outside Israel). However, this may not affect keeping 2 days of yom

To the best of my knowledge all communities in modern Israel keep one
day of Yom Tov including Eilat, Golan, Galilee above Acco etc. I also
understand that army soldiers stationed in Southern Lebanon keep one day
yom tov (though that may be based on other considerations).

It was also mentioned that

>> as the Jews in Syria do, as far as I know

Is this really true? Does anyone from the Syrian community know what the
custom was in Damascus? Also what was done in southern Lebanon e.g.
Tyre and Zidon? According to what I have read in Eygpt 2 days were
always observed even though it is not further from Jerusalem than the
north of Israel.

Eli Turkel


From: Shmuel Himelstein (n) <himelstein@...>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:13:13 GMT
Subject: Administrative Requests

[Since I have made these requests many a time over the last several
years, I'll let you hear it from someone else this time. Mod.]

Dear Avi,

This message is basically personal, but you may quote it if it will 
serve a purpose.

Needless to say, I love the forum. My one big quibble is with all the 
posters who don't bother to find sources. I've generally tried to do 
so, because I feel that's the proper way. I wonder if you could request 
this from people as a non-binding request.

[I understand that there are many people who participate in this forum
who are not able to check up sources, and this forum serves as a method
of learning for them. I do not want to discourage you from participating
here. However, there are many of you who could easily take an extra half
hour and look things up before you post. Even if you can only post from
work during your lunch hour, so you have to take a few notes home, look
things up and then post the reply the next day, the improvement in the
quality is well worth the delay of the day. Mod.]

Also, are you able to "politely" ask people to employ a spelling checker
if in doubt? Some messages are "painful to my eyes," and I imagine to
the eyes of many others. I'm not talking about typos, but of people
whose English spelling is "functionally challenged."

Thanks, [from me too, Mod.]

       Shmuel Himelstein
Phone: 972-2-864712   Fax 972-2-862041
<himelstein@...> (that's JerONE not Jer-L)
             Jerusalem, Israel

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:15:06 -0400
Subject: Administrative Requests

Since we are on the subject of administrative requests, here are two

Please do not send a posting to more than one of the allowed
addresses. It just means I get two copies of it in the same mailbox, and
then, especially if there is a few hours delay between one coming in and
the next, I have to remember I already have it in queue, or have already
sent it out and so should delete it. If you send something in and you
think it may have not gotten in to me or gotten lost and you want to
resend it to one of the other addresses, please clearly mark that it is
a resend of an earlier submission (and if you know the date of the
original, please include that). Thanks.

Please remember that not everyone on the list understands Hebrew, and
even those that do, sometime don't catch transliterated Hebrew, so
whenever possible translate your transliteration.

Avi Feldblum
Shamash Facilitator and mail-jewish Moderator
<mljewish@...> or feldblum@cnj.digex.net


From: <mml@...> (Manny Lehman)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:12:50 +0100
Subject: Aliyot

Dear Aleeza

Ref. your querythat arrived a short while ago will reply direct rather
than post since I write from intuition rather than knowledge. However we
have two Ba'alei Kria at our Kosher lunches so if they are there I will
check with them and correct if necessary.

1. The Brachah made by each "nikra" (called up person) relates to his
aliyah. He should really do his own kria (reading) and we have a ba'al
kore (reader) only because most people are unable to do their own
thing. Even if someone can, we do not. generally, permit it (except on
Simchat Tora) so as not to put to shame those who can't.

2. I can't think of any reason why one should not switch in the middle
of a parasha though I would suggest that no single individual should
read less than 3 p'sukim.

3. There is, therefore, no reason why one should call up more than the
number of persons scheduled for that day (3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 + mafter where

4. If more are called up, the first 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 (as appropriate)
called up (including Cohen and Levi are called up by their "serial
number", thereafter by the term "hosafa" (addition), except the last one
who is called up as "acharon" (last one).

I stress again, if additional stress is necessary, that this is an
ituitive answer and NOT a psak (halachic decision). Have decided to post
after all as it seems to have come out reasonably clearly.

Prof. M M (Manny) Lehman, Department of Computing,
Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine, 180 Queen's Gate,
London SW7 2BZ, UK., phone: +44 (0)171 594 8214,
fax: +44 (0)171) 594 8215, alt fax.: +44 (0)171 581 8024
email: <mml@...>


From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:06:37 -0400
Subject: Batsheva / Nevuchadnezzar

     I have two Bible questions based on recent daf yomi Gemaras.

1. The Gemara in Sanhedrin states that Batsheva was under 9 years old
   when she gave birth to Solomon. However, there is another midrash
   that Uriah the Hittite helped David remove Goliath's armor and as a
   reward David offered him a Jewish wife (since he shouldn't have done
   this David was punished in that his future intended Batsheva became
   Uriah's wife). The story of David and Batsheva occurred while David
   was king in Jerusalem after having ruled in Hebron for over 7 years
   it certainly was more than nine years after the battle of David and
   Goliath.  Has anyone seen a way of reconciling these two midrashim?

2. From the very young to the very old:
   The Gemara in Sanhedrin states that Nevuchanezzar and Nevuzaradin
   (his chief of staff) were soldiers in the war of Sancherav again King
   Hezekiah. By adding up the years of Hezekiah (15 years after this
   war), Menashe (55), Amon (2), Yosiah (31), Yehoyakim (11), Zedekiah
   (11) one finds that Nevuchadnezzar destroyed the Temple 125 years
   after Sancheriv threatened Jerusalem and this was the 9th year of
   Nevuchadnezzar's reign. I find it difficult to see why G-d would give
   such a long life to two wicked people and have the Babylonians choose
   a king of well over 125 (since he was not a baby in sancheriv's time
   but a soldier) to be their ruler.

Eli Turkel


From: <er@...> (Elie Rosenfeld)
Date: 19 Jul 1995  12:47 EDT
Subject: Electricity on Shabbat in Israel

>their own generators. Thus Rav Auerbach paskened that if one knew that
>only a local generator blew and that there were no very sick people in
>the neighborhood then indeed one would not be permitted to use the
>electricity that shabbat. However, under ordinary circumstances it is
>permitted as Himelstein brought down.

In a case like this, where a generator blew and was fixed on Shabbos,
what exactly would be entailed by not "using" the electricity after it
comes on?  Would one need to stay out of rooms with lights on?  Take all
the food out of the refrigerator?  Leave the house if there is heat or
A/C running?

>    He also mentions the problem of Mar'it Ayin when driving a car on
>shabbat.  There is a psak attributed to Chazon Ish that if one needs to
>drive to a hospital on shabbat then the man should wear a tallit to
>avoid the problem of mar'it ayin. In practice I don't think this is

How would that _avoid_ Maris Ayin?  If anything, it should make it worse
because it would make it obvious that the passenger is a Jew.  In fact,
I've heard the opposite concept; that if one has to go into a McDonalds
to, say, use the rest room or telephone, one should (if a man) remove
one's kippa first.

- Elie Rosenfeld


From: Shmuel Himelstein (n) <himelstein@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:08:46 GMT
Subject: Fasting on Friday - Asarah BeTevet

I realize this issue goes back to v.20n.40, but I have just received
it. I understand there was a delay in transmission.

As mentioned in _Shoneh Halachot_the only one of the "five fasts" which
can occur on Friday is Asarah BeTevet. The reason why this fast day is
not moved, even when it is on Friday, is because of the verse (Yechezkel
24:2): "Write the name of the day, this VERY day," from which Chazal
deduce that one fasts even when it is a Friday (i.e., on the VERY day),
"neither earlier nor later." While I would have preferred a more primary
source, this statement can be found in _Entsiklopedia shel Havay
U'mesoret BeYahadut_ (1970), Vol. 2, p. 561 ("Asarah BeTevet"). As an
interesting sidelight, this source also mentions that the Karaite
calendar can have Asarah BeTevet fall on Shabbbat, in which case they
fast on that day.

       Shmuel Himelstein
Phone: 972-2-864712   Fax 972-2-862041
<himelstein@...> (that's JerONE not Jer-L)
             Jerusalem, Israel


From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:29:17 -0400
Subject: Re: haftorah from scroll

Aleeza Esther Berger wrote a few weeks back about haftorot from a
 She commented that while she thought the scroll would contain all the
haftorot in a row, that this was not the case.

Well she wasn't wrong.  There is a scroll commonly called an haftarta,
which is exactly as was described: a scroll containing all the haftorot
in order.

Eliyahu Teitz


From: Meylekh Viswanath <PVISWANA@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 18:22:05 EST5EDT
Subject: Method for Partitioning Erets Yisroel

Could anybody tell me where I should look to find out the precise 
method that Yehoshua followed to implement the goral (lottery) that was 
used to apportion erets yisroel among the shvatim?

I saw the radak around chapter 17, v. 14; he talks about a lottery for 
seven tribes, adding that yehuda, menashe and efraim had already been 
taken care of.  I couldn't find the details.

Any help appreciated.  Thanks.

Meylekh Viswanath
P.V. Viswanath, Rutgers University
Graduate School of Management, 92 New St, Newark NJ 07102
Tel: (201) 648-5899  Fax: (201) 648-1233  email: <pviswana@...>


From: <schultz@...> (Richard Schultz)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 07:02:05 EDT
Subject: Proper pronunciation

In mail-jewish 20:51, Monica Devens (via Janice Gelb,
<janiceg@...>) writes, regarding the ittach/ittacha
question raised by Art Werschulz:

>The pronunciation of this word should be /itach/.  First, I trust the
>Biblia Hebraica as a source, and that's what one finds.  I have yet to
>find a typo in the BHS.

It is true that the BHS was proofread with extreme care (remember, it
was done by German scholars).  But I would be wary of using it as my
single source for checking the kria.  The BHS is a reproduction of the
Leningrad MS, which is the oldest complete Massoretic MS of the Tanach.
As such, they reproduce it *exactly*, including any scribal errors that
it might contain.  I remember coming across at least one (a chaf sofit
with no sheva in it); they did footnote it ("sic L"), however.  I
generally check any questionable things I find in my Tikkun against
Koren, BHS, Mikraot Gedolot, and Breuer's Tanach (pub. by Mossad
Rav Kook).  The last one has the advantage that he lists all of the
differences between his text and the BHS (and Aleppo Codex for those
places where it exists).  

>There are *many* disagreements, as you called them, between commonly
>used sources for readers.  IMHO, these are not disagreements, they are
>typos.  In particular, the Hertz and the Tikkun are poorly set and
>poorly printed books, and there are many missing vowels, impossible to
>read vowels, incorrect vowels.  You name it, it happens. 

I agree in general with this statement.  I have found that if it's one
way in the Tikkun and another way somewhere else, generally the Tikkun
has a misprint.  I wonder if some of those misprints were not deliberate
in order to protect the copyright (just as the phone company puts nonexistent
names in the phone book) to make it easier to prove plagiarism.  Or maybe
it's just sloppily done.  But there are actual disagreements among the
manuscript sources, and sometimes you will find half of the texts going
one way and half going another.  One example of this that I can think of
is near the end of Psalm 118.  Is it "Ana Hashem HatzLIcha Na" or 
"Ana Hashem HatzliCHA Na"?  Most people (well, most Ashkenazim) pronounce
it the first way.  Tal in Siddur Rinat Yisrael points it the second way.
And the printed texts are split 50-50 on which way to pronounce it.

					Richard Schultz


End of Volume 20 Issue 53