Volume 22 Number 44
                       Produced: Tue Dec 19 17:09:27 1995

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Adopted Children and Yichud
         [Michael J Broyde]
Adoption and Yichud
Cooking on Shabbos
         [Zale Newman]
         [Neil Parks]
Female Singing
         [Eric Jaron Stieglitz]
Kamenetsky eats turkey?
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Kedeirah Blech
         [Yitzchok D. Frankel]
Music after the Churban
         [Mordechai Torczyner]
Musical Instruments on Shabbat
         [Gershon Dubin]
Rivka - thanks
         [Hadass Eviatar]
Shower on Yom Tov
         [Zale Newman]
The Unblech
         [Gershon Dubin]
Turning off computer before Shabat?
         [Mischa E Gelman]


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:38:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Adopted Children and Yichud

There has been some recent discussion about the rules of yichud for
adopted children.  This matter is a dispute betwee the various modern
poskim of our day.  Three approaches are to be found:
	1] Yichud does not apply when the parents and children have a
full parental relationship that started from when the children where
infants.  Neither does the prohibition of chibuck venishuk. (Tzitz
Eliezer, Rav Soloveitchik and others)
	2] The rules of yichud fully apply to adopted children who have
the status of "strangers."  Chibuck venishuk is prohibited (Lubovitcher
Rebbe, Chelchak Yakov, and others)
	3] The rules of Yichud are streched, so that one may rely on
minority opinions permitting certain types of yichud with adopted
children that would not be permitted with strangers, but the central
rules remain applicable.  (Rav Moshe Feinstein)

I am writing on the road, and cannot find my sources on this topic.  If
anyone is interested, I will provide refernces to pages in specific
achronim on request.
 Michael Broyde  


From: <Michael_Lipkin@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:51:19 EST
Subject: Adoption and Yichud

I recently attended a lecture at OHEL given by Rav Dovid Cohen shlita of
Brooklyn on the topic of halachic issues related to foster parenting.
Rav Cohen is the rabbinic advisor to OHEL.  One of the issues Rav Cohen
addressed was yichud (laws relating to seclusion with the opposite sex).
He cited a teshuva which permitted kissing and hugging between foster
children and foster parents if the children came to the home at an age
considered to be pre-puberty.  He said that once the children entered
the home at this age kissing and hugging were permitted even
post-puberty should the children remain with the family.

Rav Cohen said that there are an array of additional lenient and strict
opinions, but he paskens l'kula (decides the issue leniently) because he
considers the foster situation to be a sha'as had'chak (a time of great
need).  He further stated that yichud is certainly not a problem based
on kal v'chomer (a fortiori) reasoning.

He said that this psak also applies to adoption as halacha doesn't
really differentiate between foster parenting and adoption.  Rav Cohen
made clear that he was speaking as the halachic advisor for OHEL and
that the attendees should follow their LOR if the LOR has a different



From: Zale Newman <jacobt@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:04:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Cooking on Shabbos

 In the 1950's and 60's there were many Y.U. Rabbis accross North
America.  They followoed the Psak of Rav Soloveitchik who follows the
minority opinion of the RAN that one can reheat DRY food only, on
Shabbos, IF the food was in the oven at the time Shabbos entered and IF
all of the problems with turning on the stove lights and elements were
taken into consideration.
 Unfortunately, as with most halachik conditions, the public was not
informed of the conditions and those who were, did not take note of the
conditions.  This bishul on Shabbos proliferated amongst many who were
attempting to be Shomer Shabbos.
 The overwhelming majority halachik opinion is that we do NOT reheat
food on Shabbos.  There are exceptions such as putting a pot on top of
another that has been on the stove from before Shabbos EG: the bottom
pot has hot water and stays on the burner from before Shabbos until
Shabbos morning.  On Shabbos one places kugel on top of the pot.  This
is called "KLEE AL GABAY KLEE".  One should consult a competent halachik
POSEK to see how they can adapt this for their homes or shuls.  One can
also check R.  Shimon Eider's HILCHOS SHABBOS book.


From: Neil Parks <nparks@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 12:56:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Driedel

>From: <gerald.sutofsky@...> (Gerald Sutofsky)
>Can anyone help me with the origin of the use of the driedel on
>Chanukah. Does it date back to ancient times or is it a relatively
>recent custom established by German Jewry about 200 years ago?

I have read that it goes back to the times of the events of Hanukah.
When our oppressors forbade study of Torah, the Rabbis and their
students would carry dreidels along with their holy books.  They would
post a lookout to watch for enemy soldiers, and if they saw any coming,
they would hide the books and play with the dreidels.

     NEIL PARKS  Beachwood, Ohio    mailto://<nparks@...>


From: Eric Jaron Stieglitz <ephraim@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:07:21 -0500
Subject: Female Singing

Ed Ehrlich, <eehrlich@...>, wrote on mail-jewish:
> I know that some men observe a prohibition against listening to a 
> voice of a female singing.  But does it make any difference if it's a 
> single voice or women or girls participating in a mixed choir?

  I've heard *many* opinions on this topic, and I would appreciate it if
somebody could point to an actual text that supported any of them.
Among those that I've been told:

1) It is OK to hear a woman sing when the singing has some religious
   content (such as kiddush, or during davening), but not for secular

2) It is OK to hear a woman sing only when the song has no religious
   content (the exact opposite of the previous statement).

3) The prohibition only applies to a single person, when a group of
   women sings (or a co-ed group sings), there is no problem.

  Obviously, the first and second can't both be true. Can anybody clarify

Eric Jaron Stieglitz    <ephraim@...>
Home: (212) 853-4837/6795       Assistant Systems Manager at the
Work: (212) 854-6020            Center for Telecommunications Research
Fax : (212) 854-2497    http://www.ctr.columbia.edu/people/Eric.html


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:53:31 -0500
Subject: Kamenetsky eats turkey?

David Hollander (MJ22#25) says:
>Regarding the turkey discussion, I've been told that Rav Yaacov Kaminecki 
>never ate turkey and his family members follow that, and do not eat turkey 
>anytime, Thanksgiving or all year.

I spoke today (Dec. 3, 1995) to both Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, the son of
Rav Yaacov, and to Rabbi Sholom Kamenetsky (the grandson of Rav Yaacov)
about this story. The facts are different from those quoted above.

The wife of Rav Yaacov came from a family which had a tradition not to
eat turkey. Rav Yaacov believed that the wife "calls the shots" in the
kitchen, and therefore ate what she served him. Thus he did not eat
turkey at home (I don't know if he ate it elsewhere). Rabbi Shmuel
Kamenetsky, his son, who is now the Rosh Yeshivah of the Talmudical
Yeshiva in Philadelphia, grew up with this tradition and does not eat
turkey. However, he also believed that it was up to his wife to call the
shots in the kitchen, and because it was her family's tradition, she
served turkey at his home. Thus, all the children and his wife eat
turkey, but he does not. There was never a tradition from the Kamenetsky
side not to eat turkey.

This is interesting, since it follows the same concept, brought by Chaim
Soloveichik, about mothers training their daughters, and the mimicking
tradition of old Judaism.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: <Ydfrankel@...> (Yitzchok D. Frankel)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:15:32 -0500
Subject: Kedeirah Blech

When I questioned Harav Dovid Feinstein about the Kedeirah Blech he told me
that there was no problem with it.

Yitzchok D. Frankel
Long Beach, NY


From: Mordechai Torczyner <mat6263@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:44:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Music after the Churban

Robert Kaiser wrote:
> 	I know that in recent Halakhic literature, there is a legend
> that Jews are forbidden from playing instruments on Shabbat because of
> the destruction of the Temple.  According to this, somebody, somewhere,
> forbid forevermore the playing of musical instruments on Shabbat as a
> constant reminder of the destruction of the Temple. 

	There is much discussion and difference of opinion as to the
focus of the prohibition of playing (instrumental) music after the
Churban, in places which are designated for drinking alcoholic beverages
and in general; see Mishnah Sotah 9:11, and see Gittin 7a.  However, it
does not seem that this has to do with the prohibition of playing
Instruments on Shabbos; in fact, I believe I saw several sources which
indicate that this prohibition does not extend to any music which is for
purposes of a mitzvah. I think I remember that Rav Moshe Feinstein has a
teshuvah discussing music for a dinner which is held for the purpose of
raising Tzedakah.
							Mordechai Torczyner


From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 10:40:00 -0500
Subject: Musical Instruments on Shabbat

> Does anyone know of the sources that prohibit Jews from playing
> musical instruments on Shabbat?  I was told that Talmud Bavli does not
> in fact prohibit the playing of music on Shabbat , but merely 

I have trouble with "merely".  An issur m'drabanan is considered as
serious and sometimes more so than a d'oraisa.

> a repair to it (which is forbidden on Shabbat).  I have also heard that
> the commentary to this gemara states that this is not always
> forbidden, and only is forbidden in the instrument player is skilled in
> instrument repair.  If not, there would be no reason to forbid the
> plaing of music. Do I understand this correctly?

 This is wrong.  The reason given is that one might fix the instrument
but all the authorities bar none have this as an absolute: it does not
depend at all on the repair capabilities of the player.

> Shulkhan Arukh never gives the basis for a ruling and never quotes it
> sources

Are you serious?  If you're referring to the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, that
is correct, since it was meant as a quick reference.  The Shulchan Aruch
itself (although it too was designed as a quick reference to the Tur) is
documented as to sources and reasoning to the nth degree.

<gershon.dubin@...>      |
http://www.medtechnet.com/~dubinG |


From: Hadass Eviatar <eviatar@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:03:46 -0600
Subject: Rivka - thanks

My thanks to everyone who responded to my question about the etymology of the
name Rivka.

Chag sameach, Hadass


From: Zale Newman <jacobt@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:14:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Shower on Yom Tov

A noted halachik authority in Toronto taught that there are circumstances 
whereby one may take a "kind of shower" on Yom Tov but 5 conditions must 
ALL be kept.
(note: why not just follow the chassidim to the local MIKVA on Yom Tov 
morning?  Note that they follow specific conditions too.)
The 5 conditions are as follows:
1) cool shower only! (no hot water)
2) only part of the body can be under the water at a time.  (ie: arm or 
   leg, but one should not stand under the water)
3) one cannot wash their hair
4) one can only "pat" themselves dry and thus 2 or 3 towels are useful
5) only liquid soap can be used.  Note: cream soaps are problematic under 
   the prohibition of using creams on Shabbos and Yom Tov;  a good idea is 
   to put about 1/3 water into the cream soap bottle before Yom Tov and 
   shake the bottle.  This should make the cream liquid enough for use and 
   Shabbos and Yom Tov.


From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 10:52:00 -0500
Subject: The Unblech

> the heter of kdeirah al gabei kdeirah [pot on top of pot]: Rav Feivel
> Cohen, a prominent Brooklyn Moreh Horaah, publicly prohibited it some
> time ago. I haven't heard of any other comments from recognized
> authorities. 
	In writing?  I'd be very interested in the specifics.  Regards from
your brother in law Israel.
<gershon.dubin@...>      |
http://www.medtechnet.com/~dubinG |


From: Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@pitt.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:18:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Turning off computer before Shabat?

Whenever I finish using my computer on Friday, I wonder if I should turn
it off.  If I do, there is a 90+% chance my brother will turn it back on
on Shabat.  But if I do leave it on, he has less to do to turn the
computer on(turn on modem and click, not turn on modem and main part)
and may be saving him sins.  Which do you thing is the right option?


End of Volume 22 Issue 44