Volume 22 Number 64
                       Produced: Mon Jan  1  9:22:02 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Birchas Kohanim
         [David Hollander]
Charedim and Modern Orthodox
         [Chaim Wasserman]
Correcting Torah reading
         [Larry Israel]
Custom in House of Mourner
         [Zev Barr]
Kriah for Chanukah
         [Roger Kingsley]
Musaf on Shabbat-Rosh Hodesh
         [Steve White]
Mussaf on Shabbos Rosh Chodesh
         [David Twersky]
Tal Umatar
         [Zvi Weiss]


From: <David_Hollander@...> (David Hollander)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 09:27:01 EST
Subject: Birchas Kohanim

In a previous posting Yosey Goldstein <JOE-G@...> wrote:

>Rabbi David said the source of being able to "Peek" at the Kohain 
>Duchaning was based on the RAN in Megillah. For a full explanation 
>see the RAN in Megillah 24b. But the synopsis is because the mishna 
>uses the term MISTAKLIN They look carefully, which is not the same as 
>ROIN They see, which would indicate a quick "peek". I am grateful to 
>correct myself in public.

>Rabbi David then asked was he quoted 100% accurately, and was the 
>psak of the Mishna Berura mentioned? Since neither on of us thought 
>it was he said, "Even though what the Ran said is true The Mishna 
>Berura says clearly that one should NOT EVEN PEEK at the Kohain when 
>he goes up to bless the congregation"

   I am the original poster who brought Rav Hillel David into this.  I 
ask mechila for misquoting or misleading anyone.

   I spoke to Rav Hillel to clarify this.
1 Some Kohanim in shul do not cover their hands.  He knows this 
because people have told him so, not that he has seen it himself. 
2 Although the Ran allows peeking, our minhag is like the Mishna 
Berura who does not allow peeking.
3 After Birchas Kohanim and before Sim Shalom one may look L'Chatchila.
4 The Rav does not look at the Kohanim at any of these times.

  Thanks to HaRav Hillel David Shlit"a for taking the time to 
proofread this submission.


From: <Chaimwass@...> (Chaim Wasserman)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 10:25:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Charedim and Modern Orthodox

Esther Posen wrote in mj22 #61:
>Chareidim make it a point to be medakdaik (careful) bmitzvot.    

To which I would respond by saying so-called modern orthodox are also
medakdek bmitzvos just as the chareidim. The difference may be in each
one's choice of mitzvos.

Moreover, what is needed is a study of how each so-called group treats
the halachic continuum starting with a Torah mandated d'oray'sa all the
way down to regional minhagim. Perhaps we would then be in a more
knowledgeable position to arrive at new catagories of observance. As for
me, I am bored silly by these meaningless catagories of "charedi" and
"modern orthodox".

While I cannot talk for the Ribono shel Olam, in my mind, He may be
roaring daily in deep pain over the energy that His children are
infusing into these labels.

At other times he may be laughing at some of the rediculous conclusions
which His children arrive at based on the attempt of some to create two
distinct sub-cultures: on the one hand, faithful loyalists who know with
absolute certainty what G-d demands, and, on the other hand, swank
phonies who dance with the Torah claiming that they are G-d's chosen
inner circle.

Still at other times, I get scared to the core when I see Him as trying
to eradicate all of these houses of Israel desiring to start all
over. This last option turns my often felt fantasies into horrible
nightmares because only a Moshe Rabbenu could save all of Jewry from
this last option. And here's the source of my fear: Moshe Rabbenu may
just not subscribe to THE ONE correct version of Judaism. If so, what
then? Who will save the Jewish people for another generation or two
until they reach the Promised Land to find the fruit of a Tree of Life
that will infuse new meaning into their being alive and also that Tree
of Knowledge which has illuded us for so long.

chaim wasseman 


From: Larry Israel <VSLARRY@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 95 19:01:30 +0200
Subject: Re: Correcting Torah reading

Inasmuch as the gabbaim are sometimes pre-occupied with deciding on
aliyas, mi-shebarachs, and the like, our shul has decided to have
another person on the bima. There is a short list of "expert" readers,
one of whom stands next to the baal-kria, and is the official
corrector. He is supposed to correct only mistakes that could change the

In addition, unofficially, there are several people who listen carefully
and speak privately to the baal-kria afterwards, to help him understand
what other things could be improved in the reading.


From: <zevbarr@...> (Zev Barr)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 03:37:08 +1100
Subject: Custom in House of Mourner

I have just been to a Minyan where the only mourner is an only daughter and
it struck me as strange that we say the same  words "HaMakom yenachem ETCHEM
b'toch shaarei aveilei Tzion v'Yerushalayim" to every set of avel/im.  
Does anyone have the custom to say "HaMakom yenachem OTACH...." etc.,


From: Roger Kingsley <rogerk@...>
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 95 19:27:00 +0200 (IST)
Subject: RE: Kriah for Chanukah

David Curwin wrote (in v22#54)
>> What is the basis for the difference in the daily kriah (reading)
>> that is read in Eretz Yisrael and is read in Chutz L'Aretz.  Is there 
>> a sort of "sfeika d'yoma" (a doubt as to what day it is) that we >> 
>> find with the other chagim?

This is a very interesting one.  I do not know the answer, but there
cannot be a normal sort of sfeka d'yoma, because if there was, the yom
read in chutz la'aretz would be different each year, depending on
whether Cheshvan has 29 or 30 days.  Bert Kahn suggested (in #57) that
there is a historical "sfeka d'yoma", but against that (according to the
Eshkol siddur) on the first day only the korban for the first day is
read.  It would seem that the only real difference in minhagim is how to
fill in the gap left by a lack of "natural" material to read.  Possibly
the difference in minhagim reflects the difference in minhagim on
Succot, where there is a real sfeka d'yoma.  If so, does the connection
imply a homage to the opinion of Bet Shammai on the order of lighting?

Roger Kingsley


From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:43:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Musaf on Shabbat-Rosh Hodesh

In #58, "CP <chips@...>" wrote:
>> From: <twerskyd@...> (David Twersky)
>> ...In the Mussaf Shmoneh Esrei for Shabbos Rosh Chodesh (Ata Yatzarta) we
>> say "...but because we sinned before You -- we and our forefathers -- ...
>> against your Sanctuary...".  This is of course reminiscent of the
>> paragraph beginning "Mipnei Chateynu" in the Mussaf for the Sholosh
>> Regalim (Festivals).
>> The observation/question is that we don't mention this theme in the
>> regular Shabbos Mussaf OR in the regular Rosh Chodesh Mussaf.  Why all
>> of a sudden in the combination of the two, is this theme evoked.
>I'm not sure about this, but how about ...
> Just like on the 'Rigolim' there was work done in the Beis HaMikdosh
>that normally would not have been done, on Shabos - Rosh Chodesh there
>was some work done for Rosh Chodesh (whether of sofek or not) that would
>not have been allowed to be done otherwise on Shabos.

I think that's pretty close.  But I'm not quite sure it's because the
work "would not have been allowed to be done otherwise on Shabos,"
because even if you say that the korbanot musaf for Rosh Hodesh would
normally not be sacrificed on Shabbat, so that in this case they are
extras that would not be done otherwise on Shabbat, that's not true of
regalim, where the korban musaf is always part of the avodat hayom.  And
certainly on _any_ Shabbat melacha was done in the Bet HaMikdash that
was not done elsewhere.

I have a slightly different twist, based on the other theme missing on
Shabbat and on Rosh Hodesh that is present on Shabbat-Rosh Hodesh and on
festivals, namely "Vatiten lanu HaShem Elokenu b'ahava" -- "and You,
L-rd G-d, gave us in love..."  The concept of "giving us" is present on
weekday Rosh Hodesh (Roshei hadashim _l'amcha natata_), and festivals
are of course connected to the fixing of Rosh Hodesh, which
responsibility HaShem gave us through the bet din.  The concept of
"love" appears in all musaf services ("na'ase v'nakriv alecha b'ahava"),
but it appears extra times on Shabbat.
 In the regular Shabbat musaf, "v'gam haohavim devareha gedula baharu."
On yom tov, which is a sort of Shabbat, we have "Vatiten lanu
.... b'ahava" on all days, but on Shabbat we have an extra b'ahava: "et
yom ploni haze, [phrase about day], _b'ahava_ mikra kodesh ..." which is
missing on weekday yamim tovim.  There are those who have suggested this
was a typographical error, but also those who have suggested that this
is because Shabbat was given with an extra level of love for the Jewish
people, who are the only ones permitted to observe it.

So I think that "vatiten lanu" refers to giving B'nai Yisrael the mitzva
of fixing Rosh Hodesh, and therefore chagim, while "b'ahava" refers to
Shabbat, and both are needed to allow the full phrase to be recited.

Similarly, with respect to the original posting, on yom tov, both rest
and the korban musaf -- especially the korban hatat (sin-offering) --
were really central to the observance of the yom tov.  On Shabbat the
principle observance is rest alone.  The korban musaf is not extensive,
and serves mainly as a reminder of lechem mishne (two portions of bread
or food, a reminder of the manna in the wilderness).  Since the korban
musaf is not central to the observance of Shabbat, the language about
"sinning against your sanctuary" is not especially germane to a regular

On a weekday Rosh Hodesh, of course, the korban musaf is central to the
observance, and we pray in musaf for its restoration.  But the
observance itself is not a central feature of the day, because the day
is a workday.  But on Shabbat Rosh Hodesh, which is not a workday, the
extensive korban musaf of Rosh Hodesh becomes a central feature of the
day.  Like on yom tov, we have both rest and an extensive musaf.  The
language about "sinning against your sanctuary" is very germane to such
a day.

Even today, Shabbat Rosh Hodesh has a number of similarities to yom tov.
Although the ba'al shaharit starts at Shochen Ad, and Shaharit is done
to the nusach of Shabbat, we do have Hallel, two sifre Tora, a special
haftara, and a special musaf, and in many shuls the ba'alei tefila on
Shabbat Rosh Hodesh are the same people who are asked to daven on yom

May we merit the restoration of the Avodat Bet HaMikdash speedily, in our
Steve White


From: <twerskyd@...> (David Twersky)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:12:05 -0800
Subject: Mussaf on Shabbos Rosh Chodesh

The following is my personal 'Chiddush' on the question I posed last
week concerning mention of the theme of Exile and Collective Guilt and
the Destruction of the Beis HaMikdash in the Mussaf of Shabbos Rosh
Chodesh, despite the absence of these themes on the Mussaf of Shabbos
alone or Rosh Chodesh alone.

The Talmud (Brochos 26a) speaks of the idea of Tefilla being in lieu of
Korban (Prayer replaces Sacrifices).  On a regular Shabbos or a regular
Rosh Chodesh there was just one Korban Mussaf and we say one Mussaf
Shmoneh Esrei in its place, so we are "not losing anythin".  However, on
Shabbos Rosh Chodesh there were two Mussaf Sacrifices, but we only say
one Mussaf Shmoneh Esrei, consequently we sense our lack of fulfilling
our total responsibility, and make note of that in the Shmoneh Esrei (as
we do on Mussaf of Sholosh Regalim, when there are many sacrifices
associated with the Festivals that we can no longer bring).

I realize that this answer is the type of approach that would be
characterized by some as "Baale Batish", but I've yet to hear or see
anything more appealing.

Me'herah Yibaneh HaMikdash ...[May the Temple speedily be rebuilt...]

Metzudas Dovid  -- David Twersky on the interNET


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 09:55:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Tal Umatar

Steve White asks:
> Related question: I once read that someone travelling from Israel to
> Hutz La'aretz between 7 Marheshvan and December 4-5 continues to say tal
> u'matar privately, and does not daven from the amud (for that reason)
> for weekday shaharit and minha if that is at all possible, even if he
> has a chiyuv (obligatory priority).  (If not possible, in the repetition
> he omits tal u'matar outside of Israel.)  But I couldn't find a source.
> Any helpers there?

==> Comment: I had a related problem not long ago where I entered Eretz 
Yisrael in November (and started to say "V'sen Tal...") and then returned 
to Ch"ul before December...  Rav H. Schachter Shlita told me that because 
there is a Machlokes Acharonim here, what I should do was (when davening 
by myself) say "Bracah" in "Barech Aleinu" and then say "Tal" in "Shomea 
Tefilla"... while for the Amud, I was to just follow the normal Ch"ul 
customs when I repeated the Amida out loud...



End of Volume 22 Issue 64