Volume 23 Number 13
                       Produced: Sun Feb 11 16:14:39 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

120 yrs
         [Danny Skaist]
7 Sivan
         [Monica Calabrese]
Chazon Ish's Daughter
         [Mordechai Lando]
Dinosaurs and Chinuch
         [Francine S. Glazer]
Hebrew Name
         [Rose Landowne]
Ignored Halakhot
         [Hannah Wolfish]
Kashrus Notice - Clarification
         [Avi Wachtfogel]
Meneket Chavero
         [Eliyahu Teitz]
Musaf Chazzan on Yamim Noraim
         [Steve White]
         [Mordechai Perlman]
Outdated Hechsherim
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Pre-made bagged salads & Kosher bug issues
         [Barry Siegel]
Prohibition on Instrumental Music
         [Mark Steiner]
Rav Yisrael Gustman
         [Dave Curwin]
Searching for Material
         [Shmuel Jablon]
Twin daughters in Tanach
         [Gedaliah Friedenberg]


From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 12:09 IST
Subject: 120 yrs

>Mordechai Torczyner
>examination. One is the pasuk at the end of Parshas Bereishes, "And
>their days shall be 120 (6:3)," which refers to the time left until the
>Mabul, not to the length of people's lives. Yes, references are made to
>a hint in that Pasuk to Moshe Rabbeinu, because he lived 120 years, but
>that says nothing of a limit on lifespan.

The gemorrah in tractate Megilla asks, "Moshe min hatorah minayin" [from
where in the torah do we know about Moshe]. It brings this pasuk, "he is
still but flesh and their days shall be 120 (6:3)".  So the connection
between this pasuk and Moshe is sanctioned and ancient.

A better blessing may be the one used by Bat-sheva in Kings I 1:31
 .."let my lord King David live forever."



From: Monica Calabrese <monica_calabrese@...>
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 12:01:43 EST
Subject: 7 Sivan

My parents are both Holocaust survivors from areas that were
Czechoslovakia before the war but were under Hungarian rule during the
war. My father observes Yahrtzeit a week before the first day of Shavuot
and my mother on the first day of Shavuot, because these are the dates
that their families reached Auschwitz in 1944. I don't know too much
about what actually happened (my parents don't talk about it), but it
appears that both my grandfathers survived the initial selection. My
mother saw her father alive at some point during the summer of
1944. Someone told my father that his father was alive the day before
the Russians entered Auschwitz. No information on when or how my
grandfathers died was ever uncovered, but it appears that neither died
on the date they arrived at the camp. In spite of this, my parents were
both told to observe the dates of arrival at Auschwitz as the
Yahrtzeits. I don't know the source of this ruling.

Monica (Hilsenrath) Calabrese
Phone Number (614)223-3707
Internet Address <USAEP6XT@...>


From: <Mordechai.E.Lando@...> (Mordechai Lando)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 12:16:07 EST
Subject: Chazon Ish's Daughter

In mj 22/94 Allie Berman refers to a "biography of Rebbetzin Batya 
Karelitz, daughter of the Chazon Ish."  Unless I am very mistaken, the 
Chazon Ish had no children.  Perhaps this is a biography of the Chazon 
Ish's wife.
Gut Shabbos-Yukum


From: Francine S. Glazer <fglazer@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 10:48:46 -0500
Subject: Dinosaurs and Chinuch

Try looking at a copy of Pardes Rimonim, by R' Moshe Tendler.  He argues
for teaching the evolutionary theory, and gives four different lines of
reasoning why he believes it should be taught in a yeshiva setting.

Fran Glazer


From: <ROSELANDOW@...> (Rose Landowne)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:46:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Hebrew Name

>Since somehow both names are connected to regality and kingdom, I would
>suggest the Hebrew Malka (queen) as the Hebrew equivallent.

Or perhaps, Esther Malka, which it sounds like it may have come from.
Rose Landowne


From: <Hannah.Wolfish@...> (Hannah Wolfish)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 14:26:53 EST
Subject: Ignored Halakhot

     Robert Kaiser asked about the banning of musical instruments
because of mourning for the destruction of the Temple, and was answered:

>>     The prohibition which IS based on mourning for the Temple is the
>>prohibition against ALL INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC AT ALL TIMES.  This
>>prohibition does not apply to music in divine service, such as at
>>weddings, nor to practicing by professional musicians.  In any case,
>>this prohibition is (obviously) not observed by Ashkenazim.

>I've heard of this, but never understood how the law was
>revoked.  What Orthodox rabbinical body decided that it could be 
>I think I'm missing something *big* here.  Could someone please
>explain what is going on?

I can't explain what's going on, but I know of a few individuals who 
do not listen to instrumental music (tapes as well as live) except for 
at simchas.  I wonder if there are not many "little known" 
halakhot/minhagim that very few people observe that have fallen 
between the cracks for the masses.
 Hannah Wolfish   


From: Avi Wachtfogel <awachtfo@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 96 10:30:24 
Subject: Kashrus Notice - Clarification

The Kashrus notice which I previously posted was written by my father,
Rabbi Joshua Wachtfogel (formerly of Philadelhia) and not by myself. I
am not a Rav nor a masgiach and am not qualified to answer any questions
relating to Kashrus. I will however forward any relevant responses to my

Avi Wachtfogel


From: <EDTeitz@...> (Eliyahu Teitz)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:23:59 -0500
Subject: Meneket Chavero

Just a short comment on a recent posting:

>	2] There are cases where society has moved so far away from
>chazals model of a society that one could argue that the rules mandated
>by Chazal were not intended to apply to our society.  Thus, for example,
>one will find poskim who accept that the rabbinic decree of meneket
>chavero prohibiting one from marrying a women who is nursing a child
>other than one's own, was not intended to apply to our current society
>where infant formula abounds, there is no nutrition shortage, and the
>fear of the Sages that a nursing child would be deprived of nutrition is
>very unlikely.  These tyes of arguments are always disputable, and lead
>to disputes amoung the poskim.

There was a celebrated case in the NYC area a few years back, where a
man and woman buried a baby alive because the baby was from the woman's
former boyfriend, and it was seen as an affront to the new boyfriend.
As far as we think society moves from what Chazal saw as a model, these
cases come to show we are not too far from what they saw.  ( One of the
reasons why a man may not marry a woman pregnant with another's child is
that he might intentionally case a miscarriage...we see that this even
extends to actual murder ).

This does not mean that there are other cases where the posters comments
are accurate.  I just wanted to show that this particular case does not
follow that pattern.



From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:44:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Musaf Chazzan on Yamim Noraim

In #9, Perry Zamek wrote:
>BTW, in some shules on Yamim Noraim, the Musaf Chazzan takes over to take
>out the Sefer Torah. Probably for the Chazzanut value ;-)

Actually, on Yamim Noraim, in our shul, the Shaharit Chazzan stays on board
until the Sefer Torah is put away.  The Musaf Chazzan starts at Hineni, then
says Hatzi Kaddish.  (I think most people think the chazzanut value of the
two are about equal anyway.)

>Perry Zamek   | A Jew should live his life in such a way
>Peretz ben    | that people can say of him: "There goes
>Avraham       | a living Kiddush Hashem".

I just wanted to compliment the poster on his signature.  Halevai that we
should all live that way.

Steve White


From: Mordechai Perlman <aw004@...>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 13:48:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Orloh

	Do you know anything about the status of Israeli fruit for
export.  Yesterday, I bought some fruit from Israel (which I normally do
not do) and prepared to separate T'rumos and Maaseros from them (as the
Rabbanut itself has said that fruit for export has not had the T & M
separated from them) but since I was looking at kumquats (they look like
tiny oranges but you can eat the peel), starfruit and persimmons (they
look like small tomatoes), thought that orloh might be a problem as
well.  A couple of Rabbonim in town told me that orloh is a problem with
certain fruit, but they could not tell me which.
	Please send me any info you have and an appropriate source of
the info for future queries.

				Mordechai Perlman


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himelstein@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 07:48:40 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Outdated Hechsherim

Rabbi Joshua Wachtfogel writes of how people sometimes abuse Hechsherim,
even of rabbis that departed years ago. This reminds me of a case, years
ago, when we bought a bottle of Israeli wine with a hechsher (rabbinic
endorsement) by a rabbi who had died a few years earlier. My wife Judy
had a cogent explanation of this. The rabbi in question was asked if he
would give a hechsher on the wine and replied: "Over my dead body!"

           Shmuel Himelstein


From: Barry Siegel <sieg@...>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 10:23:05 EST
Subject: Pre-made bagged salads & Kosher bug issues 

In the last few years, there have been a flood of new pre-made salads
appearing on the US supermarket produce shelfs.  At first I only saw
Dole corporation salads, however recently there are numerous other
companies producing these pre-made bagged salads.  Note: I am not
referring to the salad bars in the local supermarket, just the pre-made
salads made and bagged by large commercial corporations.

These salads bags usually contain precut & washed/cleaned lettuce,
carrots and cabbage.  There is no kashrus issues here, however there is
the issue of bugs.  Specifically are they good enough to use without
washing them ourselves.  Without going into the complex issues of
bugs-"kashrus" however there are many (7?) prohibitions against eating
"sherotzim" bugs, creepy crawlers etc.. Remember all the procedures we
employ to clean the Romaine lettuce for the Passover Seder.

A few years back, the BODEK company of NY/NJ, US started producing these
salads and they were rabbinicly approved. I believe the law is that the
salads don't have to be completely bug free, however just the percentage
reduced to very small so that it is rabbinicly permitted.

My own investigation of these products has produced:

1) A personal Heter from a well known Rav to eat the Dole products.
   This was based on calling up Dole and getting very specific details
   on thier washing & cleaning salad procedures.

2) There is an O-V hecsher (Orthodox Vadd of St. Louis) on the Salad Time 
   brand pre-bagged salads (These are sold in Pathmark supermarkets).  I
   spoke with the O-V and their hecsher included the bug issue.
   (ie. you can eat it right out of the bag without washing it)

3) I spoke with Rabbi Luban of the O-U (Orthodox Union) and he said that 
   the OU is preparing to do a study on the bug-issue of these products.
   He mentioned that he did not know of any Kashrus issue, just the bug
   issue.  (He also asked that if I find out more info to pass it along
   to him.)

I have called up the consumer line of some of the companies and they all
tell me the same info, namely that they can not guarantee that their
products are bug free, however, they hear of rare occurrences where
people have found bugs in their products.

With that as a background, I'd like to inquire if anybody knows of any
other Heterim or Rabbinic approval on any of these pre-made (washed &
ready to eat) salad products?

I'm sure that many other folks use these products.  Has anyone else
asked their LOR about their usage?

Barry Siegel  (908)615-2928 centinel!sieg OR <sieg@...>


From: Mark Steiner <MARKSA@...>
Date: Thu,  1 Feb 96 11:06 +0200
Subject: Re: Prohibition on Instrumental Music

	Ashkenazim do not "ignore" a prohibition on instrumental
music at all times.  The Rema on the laws of Tish`a B'Av, restricts
the prohibition to dinner music.  Thus he interprets the prohibition
of music (beginning of Tractate Gittin) as not a mourning custom,
but as a prohibition against imititating Gentile practice (of dinner
	In other words, there are two legitimate (ancient) interpretations
of the Talmud.  This is *not* a case in which a received law was

	R. Moshe Feinstein, z"l, though tending to a strict position
on all instrumental music, also stated that we have no right
to criticize those who are lenient, since they rely on the Rema,
as above.

Mark Steiner


From: Dave Curwin <6524dcurw@...>
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 19:48:15 EST
Subject: Rav Yisrael Gustman

I am looking for biographical information on Rav Yisrael Gustman, the
Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivat Netzach Yisrael. I believe he died in 1991.
Also, I am looking for any collections of his writings, particularly
those on views of different subjects (if such collections exist.)

David Curwin		With wife Toby, Shaliach to Boston, MA
904 Centre St.          List Owner of B-AKIVA on Jerusalem One
Newton, MA 02159                   <6524dcurw@...>
617 527 0977          Why are we here? "L'hafitz Tora V'Avoda"


From: <ShmuelAJ@...> (Shmuel Jablon)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:23:42 -0500
Subject: Searching for Material

I am looking for primary sources published by the VAAD haTZALAH or authored
by its rabbanim.  I am also looking for Sredei Eish alef, bet, and gimel.
 Can anyone help?

Shmuel Jablon


From: Gedaliah Friedenberg <gedaliah@...>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:12:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Twin daughters in Tanach
Newsgroups: shamash.mail-jewish

Does anyone know of any mention of twin daughters in Tanach?  Perhaps
another Torah source (gemorrah, etc.)?

Gedaliah Friedenberg


End of Volume 23 Issue 13