Volume 23 Number 24
                       Produced: Sun Feb 25  2:35:41 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Danny Skaist]
120 years
         [Moshe Sokolow]
Art and Halacha
         [Gershon Dubin]
Art and Images
         [Elozor Preil]
         [Andrea Penkower Rosen]
Bat Mitzva
         [Carl & Adina Sherer]
Hacol Tsafui & Omniscience - correction
         [Mechy Frankel]
Kashrut on El Al
         [Aryeh Frimer]
No Music in Jerusalem
         [Lon Eisenberg]
Noahide laws
         [Yosey Goldstein]
Orlah: Correction
         [Elozor Preil]
         [Mark Steiner]
Sefat Ha-Ohel (5744)
         [Michael J Broyde]
Teaching Chumash, Navee, etc to Learning Disabled Adolescents
         [Tirzah Houminer]
Two sets of Keruvim?
         [Chaim Schild]


From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 12:16 IST
Subject: 120

> Michael Shimshoni
>120 to "forever".  What is the value of such life if, as the verse says
>that after 120 "lo yadun ruhi va`adam le`olam" (my spirit shall not rule
>in the human forever)? Prolonged senility?

It also says "ben ma'ah k'elu met.." [a person 100 years old is as if
dead] [Avot 5; last mishne]

> BTW the above mentioned King David died at age 70.

And the blesing "let my lord King David live forever." was given after a
discussion of David's impending death, and who would, very shortly, take
over the kingdom after David.
But even that didn't change the greeting/blessing.



From: <TorahDept@...> (Moshe Sokolow)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 10:58:01 -0500
Subject: 120 years

 Many medieval authorities subscribed to the doctrine (called 'Adjal, in
Arabic) that each human being is alloted a fixed lifespan by
God. Sa'adiah uses this to explain that the reason Moshe Rabbeinu didn't
enter Eretz Yisrael was that the sin of the meraglim made him use up his
allotment in the desert.
 Rambam even has a responsum on the subject which was published not long
ago in Hebrew, but I don't have the details handy.
 I still think an appropriate modern Orthodox salutation is: Live long
and prosper!
 Moshe Sokolow


From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 00:04:00 -0500
Subject: Art and Halacha

> From: <adina.gerver@...> (Adina Gerver)

> I am looking for sources on art and halacha, especially regarding
> drawings, paintings, and sculptures created for aesthetic purposes. I
> assume that art used for hiddur mitzva (beautification of a mitzva) is
> not a problem.

> I have heard that the prohibition against creating images is from the
> pasuk in Yitro, "Lo ta'asoon iti elohei kesef vi'elohei zahav" ("Do
> not make with Me gods of silver and gods of gold").
> How does the gemara get from a prohibition that seems to be against
> making idols to a prohibition against creating any 3-D images, even if
> they will not be worshipped? Does anyone know where this gemara is? 

      The Mechilta (quoted by Rashi on that posuk) says if you make
k'ruvim out of silver, if you make more than two, if you make them in
anyplace other than the mishkon or Bais Hamikdash (i.e. in a synagogue)
you are in violation of this prohibition.  This is clearly not limited
to idolatorous images.

> Is the prohibition against making 3-D images for decorative purposes a
> di'orayta (from the Torah)? In terms of punishment, how does it
> compare to making idols?
> Is there an additional prohibition against creating 2-dimensional
> images?

       Look at Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah Chapter 141 paragraphs 4-7
where the specifics are discussed: 2 vs 3 dimensional, raised images vs
indented, images of people vs heavenly bodies vs animals.  It is my
understanding that 2 dimensional images are OK; check with your LOR.

> Is a distinction made between creating, buying, and receiving art,
> assuming that it was not created for avoda zara (idol worship)?  

	All the halachos at the source cited assume no intent of
idolatry.  There *are* distinctions between creating and acquiring; back
to the LOR for that.

> Does anyone know of sources about making one's living from the creation of
> decorative (non-functional) art?
> Is there even a Jewish concept of art for aesthetic purposes?

	I once read a nice essay on this by Rabbi YY Preil, but I don't
remember the specifics nor do I have it.  I believe his grandson (great
grandson?) is on this list; perhaps he can help.

<gershon.dubin@...>        |
http://www.medtechnet.com/~dubinG   |


From: <EMPreil@...> (Elozor Preil)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:36:02 -0500
Subject: Art and Images

> I have heard that the prohibition against creating images is from the
>pasuk in Yitro, "Lo ta'asoon iti elohei kesef vi'elohei zahav" ("Do not
>make with Me gods of silver and gods of gold").

Rabbi Yissocher Frand has an excellent presentation on this very pasuk in a
recently released tape (#360) titled: "Avodah Zarah - Dolls and Statues."

Kol tuv, 
Elozor Preil


From: Andrea Penkower Rosen <apr@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 18:28:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Baby-Naming

Someone just asked me if there was a source for the custom of Ashkenazic 
Jews to name their babies after the deceased.  All I know is that it is a 
custom.  Can anyone supply more specific origins for this behavior?

Andrea Penkower Rosen


From: Carl & Adina Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:50:35 +0200
Subject: Bat Mitzva

Etan Diamond asks:

>3) Any articles/books on the Orthodox versions of Bat mitzvah?

There was an article in the Journal of Halacha and Contemporary Society
Number XII entitled "Celebration of the Bat Mitzva" (Fall 1986).  You may
also wish to check the sefer "Halichot Bat Yisrael" which I do not have
handy, but which includes a chapter on Bat Mitzva.

I hope this is helpful.

-- Carl Sherer
Carl and Adina Sherer


From: Mechy Frankel <frankel@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:45:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Hacol Tsafui & Omniscience - correction

In a recent submission on this topic (Vol 23 #22) my fingers, completely
of their own volition, apparently typed "no other tanachic source.. "
referencing Auerbach's citation of the absence of any other examples of
usage of the verb "tsofeh" as referring to a future, as opposed to a
present, state. That should of course have read, "no other tannaitic
source" . The earliest usage in the future sense is amoraic, i.e. post-
R. Akiva.  I apologize for any confusion, and will certainly reprimand
the responsible digits.

Mechy Frankel                            W: (703) 325-1277
<frankel@...>                      H: (301) 593-3949


From: Aryeh Frimer <F66235%<BARILAN.bitnet@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 14:09 O
Subject: Kashrut on El Al

     Yesterday's editorial in HaTsofeh (the Mafda"l newspaper) focussed
on an issue that many are not aware of. About a month ago, Rav Katsir,
the Rav hamachshir (Kashrut Supervisor) of El Al was fired/left and has
not since been replaced. Presumably, there is still some internal
rabbinic supervision, but El Al has cut that down to a minimum as well.
The "special Kosher" is still under the supervision of Rav Kulitz (chief
rabbi of Jerusalem) and is of course reliable, but the regular food is
problematic to say the least. The food served in the first class lounge
at Ben Gurion comes from a restaurant which is open on Shabbat! Hence,
until there is somebody of stature and authority appointed to supervise
the Kashrut at El Al, it is highly recommended that people flying El Al
or Tower (which also gets its regular food from the El Al Kitchen) to
order "Special Kosher" Meals.  The editorial also mentioned a problem
with the food on the direct LA to Israel flight. Presumably, the
hashgacha is not OU, but I don't know any further details.
    It might be helpful if people contacted El Al and expressed their
disatisfaction with the lack of proper supervision at El Al. There may
be other mail-Jewish subscribers who have more info.


From: <eisenbrg@...> (Lon Eisenberg)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 20:26:03 -0500
Subject: No Music in Jerusalem

Those who observe the custom of not having insturmental music at their
weddings in Jerusalem do so, as far as I know, based on a ban from the
19th century (I don't remember the names of those issuing the ban).
This ban has nothing to do with mourning for the Beth HaMikdash [Holy
Temple], since the Gemorrah mentions that the ban of insturmental music
related to mourning for the Beth HaMikdash does not apply at weddings
and other semahoth [celebrations].  The ban in question was issued to
prevent kaluth rosh [light headedness] at these affairs.

I believe I read a story about a groom coming to Rav Auerbakh (z"l),
asking if he is required to observe the ban.  Rav Auerbakh effectively
told him "no", but then, realizing that the bride was a descendant of
one of the rabbis who issued the ban, called him back and told him that
he'd better observe it!


From: Yosey Goldstein <JOE-G@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 23:36:02 EST
Subject: Noahide laws

There is a Book written in English By Reb Aharon Lichtenstein, of Monsey
New York (A cousin to the "Famous" Reb Aharon Lichtenstein from E"Y)
That deals with the 7 Noahide laws. I know that many gentiles have read
the book specifically for the purpose of keeping those commandments. My
Rov Shlita is close to Reb Aharon, having been his father's Rov for
years and assisted him with many questions Reb aharon had when writing
it, Has himself told me about getting calls from Gentiles about the



From: <EMPreil@...> (Elozor Preil)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 17:35:28 -0500
Subject: Orlah: Correction

Earlier I wrote (in reply to a question re Israeli fruit):

"Please forgive me for an "I once heard...",  but I remember asking this
question many years ago when I was teaching Kashrut and I recall that the
answer was that fruit grown during the first three years is not good enough
for export."

In thinking about my posting some time later, I realized I erred.  In
truth, the law of Orlah applies equally in Chutz La'aretz as in Israel.
The reason we can buy any fruit in any store is because fruit prior to
the fourth or fifth year is not of *commercial* quality.

Kol tuv,
Elozor Preil


From: Mark Steiner <MARKSA@...>
Date: Mon,  19 Feb 96 11:14 +0200
Subject: Orloh

	A recent posting on the subject of orloh was seriously
misleading, and could lead readers to violate an the mitzva of orloh,
which is so severe that it takes 1 in 200 to nullify (bitul) it.
	It is definitely not true that fruits that are halakhically
orloh are unfit for export.  And there are certain citrus fruits
exported from Israel where the percentage of orloh can be as much as 5%.
Whether we can rely on the preponderance (rov) of non-orloh fruits (kol
deporish meruba porish) is a hotly debated subject on which only the
gedolei haposkim can decide (the Hazon Ish had a stringent opinion on
the matter, the Eda Chareidis has not delivered an official psak).
	The most reliable source of information on this matter is the
Beit Midrash Govoah Lehalakha Bahityashvut, 9 Nahum St (Geula),
Jerusalem.  They have tables of orloh by species with percentages.
	It behooves writers for mail-jewish to check carefully before
writing piskei halakha.

Mark Steiner

P. S.  I believe that the Jaffa oranges exported from Israel have no
problem of orloh, but the rabbanut does not separate the tithes (trumot
uma`asrot), so you must do it yourself.  The rabbanut relies on a
controversial psak that exported fruits are exempt from tithing.  Since
there were gedolim who agreed with this, a beracha should probably not
be recited before tithing the fruit.


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 20:05:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Sefat Ha-Ohel (5744)

I am looking for a copy of a publication called Sefat Ha-Ohel (5744) at 
page 98 which contains a teshuva in the name of Rav S.Z. Auerbach dealing 
with women reading megillah.  I have had no luck locating the periodical 
(or annual).

Can anyone help?
Rabbi Michael Broyde
404 727-7546
404 727-3374 (fax)


From: Tirzah Houminer <tirzah@...>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 22:41:36 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Teaching Chumash, Navee, etc to Learning Disabled Adolescents

Shalom, I serve as a yoetzet (psychological/educational consultant) to a 
series of clsses in a program for learning disabled adolescents in 
Yeshivot tichonion and ulpanot in and around Yerushalaym, gush etzion, 
etc. I am looking for ideas or info about programs, workbooks, chovrot, 
etc. that would be applicable for teaching chumash, navee, mishna and 
gemarrah to  these kids, has anyone out there ever worked with these age 
kids in a religious high school setting?

Thank you, Chag PUrim Samayach.


From: <SCHILDH@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:05:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Two sets of Keruvim?

In parashat Terumah, the construction of the Ark is described. I always
thought it was the only one ever made that later was put in the
Temple. Yet while looking at the Rashi on the sentence which then
refered to Gemara Sukka 5b, it appears that the Keruvim in the Temple
were bigger than those in the Tabernacle....was there a second set of
Keruvim and one ark ? ???? two arks !!?? If two sets, then did both
pairs turn away when the Jews were not following Torah ???



End of Volume 23 Issue 24