Volume 23 Number 27
                       Produced: Tue Feb 27 22:23:21 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

120 years old
         [Frank Silbermann]
Administrative Detention in Israel
         [Warren Burstein]
         [Debra Fran Baker]
Battered Women and the Mikvah Lady
         [Micha Berger]
Hearing Aids
         [Michael J Broyde]
         [Louis Rayman]
Machtzit Hashekel
         [Danny Skaist]
Mikveh ladies
         [Cathleen London]
Rabbi Eli Munk
         [Menachem A. Bahir]
Stopping Tal Umatar Prayer
         [Sherman Marcus]
When Bad things happen
         [Cheryl Hall]


From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:14:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: 120 years old

At least one person has verifiably reached the age of 121, a few others
have submitted plausible claims of having reached reaching 120.

I don't think I've seen better evidence that Moshiach is coming!

Frank Silbermann	<fs@...>


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:29:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Administrative Detention in Israel

Carl Sherer writes:

>I think it's important to understand at the outset what administrative
>detention is.  In Volume 22 #93 Warren Burstein asked regarding Shmuel
>Cytryn that maybe there is a possibility that the government of Israel
>has a valid reason for holding him.  The implication of the question is
>that the government has probable cause for holding Mr. Cytryn until
>trial.  Sadly, this is not what administrative detention indicates.
>Administrative detention is carried out by an order by an army commander
>stating that the detainee is a "danger".

That was not my implication.  If one is asked to work to free an
administrative detainee on grounds of "pikuach nefesh", one could
perhaps also consider that there might be similar reasons to support
that person's continued detainment.

>I think we have a duty to see to our fellow Jews not being mistreated
>in prison regardles of who the responsible government is.

I agree.  But the Jewish bank robbers are also "aniyei ircha" (the poor
of your city) who also deserve to be treated well while in jail (or
perhaps even freed, if jail is a dangerous place).  I have not noticed
any discussion on this list of prison conditions in Israel before this.

Once again, I oppose all administrative detention.  I feel that the best
way to end this situation is to repeal the Israeli law that permits


From: Debra Fran Baker <dfbaker@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:28:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Baby-Naming

> Someone just asked me if there was a source for the custom of Ashkenazic 
> Jews to name their babies after the deceased.  All I know is that it is a 
> custom.  Can anyone supply more specific origins for this behavior?

I'm not sure if this answers the question, but I've heard that the
reason we name a child after a person in general is in the hopes that
this child will emulate the original name holder.  Ashkenazim name
children only after the deceased because of the fear that the Angel of
Death will come seeking the older person, but make a mistake and take
the child instead.

Debra Fran Baker                                      <dfbaker@...>


From: Micha Berger <aishdas@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:15:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Battered Women and the Mikvah Lady

My wife is a mikvah lady one or two nights a week, so I asked her for
her opinion.

She felt that the whole matter is being handled a bit
heavy-handedly. Anyone who sees signs of abuse should report it. Mikvah
women are in a particularly likely position to note it, but the need to
report it need not be tied to her job at the mikvah. This need not
become an issue of organizing mikveh women qua mikveh women on a formal

The community, in general, needs to know where the prohibition of
messirah (informing hostile authorities) ends, and where the obligation
to protect another from harm begins.

Instead of making a big deal about using the mikvah as a checking
station, which may drive the battered woman away from the mikvah,
general classes should be offered for schoolteachers, principles, and
the general public.  Yes, the local mikvah lady would attend, but by not
pointing her out we wouldn't be focussing on the idea of mikvah as a
domestic violence police center.

Micha Berger 201 916-0287        Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3255 days!
<AishDas@...>                     (16-Oct-86 -  5-Oct-95)
<a href=news:alt.religion.aishdas>Orthodox Judaism: Torah, Avodah, Chessed</a>
<a href=http://haven.ios.com/~aishdas>AishDas Society's Home Page</a>


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:55:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hearing Aids

One writer recently stated:
>    *All* hearing aids must be turned on before Shabbos begins and left
> on all of Shabbos.  *Many* poskim do not allow the use of many *types*
> of digital hearing aids because of the fear that adjusting the volume
> causes "active" changes in the circuitry.

I beleive that this post is seriously mistaken in terms of halacha.  I
am aware of NO published teshuvot that prohibit one from wearing a
hearing aid on Shabbat lest one come to adjust the hearing aid.  There
are poskim who prohibit one from adjusting the volume on such a device,
but that is not the same as ruling that one may not waer one less one
come to adjust it.
	One must be exceedingly carefull as to how one presents 
normative halacha.
Rabbi Michael Broyde


From: <lou@...> (Louis Rayman)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:56:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Kedusha

Chaim Shild asks abou the variations on kedusha in davening:
>In the Kedusha of Yotzer (during Brachas of Shema) we say:
>Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh
>Baruch Kavod HaShem M'mkomo
>In the Amidah Kedusha we say:
>Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh
>Baruch Kavod HaShem M'mkomo
>Yimloch HaShem ....
>In the Kedusha of Uva L'Tziyon we say
>Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh
>Baruch Kavod HaShem M'mkomo
>HaShem Yimloch .....

A thought about the lack of 3rd pasuk in the Kedusha of Yotzer Ohr: In
the other two, the 3rd pasuk refers to the eternal malchus (reign) of
Hashem over the world.  In Yotzer, this part is (seemingly) omitted.

The brachos of Malchios, Zichronos and Shofros on Rosh Hashana each
follow a pattern: 3 psukim from the Torah, 3 from Tehilim, 3 from
Nevi'im, and concluding with 1 more pasuk from the Torah.  In Malchios,
the concluding pasuk is onoe other than the Shema.  It seems that at
some level, accepting Hashem as The One God is equivalent to accepting
His kingship.  So, if you view the Shema as the 3rd pasuk of the kedusha
of Yotzer, the kedushos are not as different as they seem.

Good Shabbos
Lou     _
   ___ | |____
  |_  ||____  | Lou Rayman - Hired Gun
   .| |    / /  Client Site: <lou@...>    212/603-3375
    |_|   /_/   Main Office: <louis.rayman@...>


From: DANNY%<ILNCRD@...> (Danny Skaist)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 10:55 IST
Subject: Machtzit Hashekel

There is a minhag in Israel to give the worth of half a shekel of silver
for Mahtzit hashekel (appx 7 grams I believe).

I have been unable to discover any shulchan orech that paskens this way.
I have a theory, which may be nonsense, I discussed it with a rav and he
didn't laugh at it, he laughed with it.

I know that there is a disagreement among Rishonim, one opinion does
hold that as a rememberance of the Half-shekel, we are required to give
the current value of the half-shekel coin used in the beit hamikdash. It
is a minority position and hallacha is that we use 1/2 of the "coin of
the realm" and give 3 of them.

I believe, subject to any responses that I get, that the Israeli minhag
started when the British took over Eretz Yisrael and instituted the
Palestine Pound as the official currency [One Palestine Pound = One
Pound Sterling].  The Palestine Pound was such a large ammount of money
in the economy that it was broken down, not into hundredths, but into
thousandths.  1 pound = 100 agurot, 1 agura = 10 prutot, and I believe
that there was also a coin of 1/2 prutah.

Four Palestine Pounds was considered a reasonable salary.  Which created
the problem of having to give well over one third of a months salary for
machzit hashekel.  A situation in which this hallacha was impossible to
keep without impoverishing the Yishuv.

The solution was found by creating a heter [leniency] based on the
minority opinion found in the rishonim and permiting giving the worth of
7(?) grams of silver.

Times have changed.  At current prices of silver and the Israeli
currency one half shekel of silver is worth 7 NIS.  I claim that, to be
machmir is to give 1.5 shekel, and to be maikel is to give 7 shekel.  It
was at this point that the rav started to laugh...Imagine, A chumra that
is cheaper then a kula.  This went against his mindset. But it is in the
spirit of Purim and v'nahafoch hu [it was reversed].

If anbody knows anything which can shed light on this, please let me know.



From: Cathleen London <londonc@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 11:11:26 -0800
Subject: Mikveh ladies

In #23/20 Heather Okoskin Benjamin objects to the use of resource cards
for victims of abuse as ineffective, and potentially dangerous because
pamphlets would follow in the woman's home.

The cards I wrote of have resource phone numbers which could potentially
be used from the mikveh.  It has been successful here (Oregon) as a
means of outreach that is totally nonthreatening/nonjudgemental to a
woman who is currently a victim of abuse.

I maintain that the mikveh should remain a private place.  I have
nothing against educating mikveh ladies, but I think it should for the
case when a woman steps forward for help.  It should be possible for a
victim to go from the mikveh to a shelter if she so desires.  But in her
time, not someone else's.  She has to deal with her abuser ultimately,
not you or me.  She has to pick the appropriate time.

THe cards we hand out have resource phone numbers - there is no way for
pamphlets to follow, because no one would have her address.  As a
physicians who have treated victims of abuse, we certainly take
discretion into account in our clinic.  The cards are business card

-Chaya London, M.D.
Physician, Department of Family Medicine
Oregon Health Sciences University


From: <tjvmab@...> (Menachem A. Bahir)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:22:39 -0700
Subject: Rabbi Eli Munk

In Vol.22#69 Shmuel Himelstein wrote:
>In the late 1950s and/or early 1960s, Rabbi Munk, za"l, the founder of
>Camp Munk, was involved with Cornell University in a study of ritual
>slaughtering and pain. I remember that this work included attaching
>electrodes to the animals' brains before slaughtering them.
>I would imagine that further information about this may be gotten from 
>his son, Rabbi Eli Munk.

Could someone please tell me how to get in touch with Rabbi Eli Munk.
Founder, The Jewish Vegan Lifestyle;e-mail: <tjvmab@...>
        mail address:5515 N. 7 Street,ste.5-442
                     Phoenix,Arizona 85014


From: Sherman Marcus <mernav@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 23:36:41 +0200
Subject: Stopping Tal Umatar Prayer

        Now that Pesach is rapidly approaching, Rabbi Yerucham Spiegel
who gives a gemarra shiur that I attend, told us about an interesting
question regarding when to STOP saying Tal Umatar L'vracha (although I
wouldn't be surprised if someone points out that it was brought up on
this list umpteen years ago).  He told us that a Talmud Torah student in
Ashdod asked the following: If in Israel we START saying Tal Umatar
L'vracha two weeks after Succot to allow the Olei Regel time to get home
before the rain starts, why don't we STOP saying it two weeks before
Pesach to allow the Olei Regel time to make the trip to Jerusalem?

        Rabbi Spiegel told us three possible reasons, one given by the
student's teacher, another given by the Rabbi of the school, and one
which he (Rabbi Spiegel) thought of.  I recall only two of these reasons
(sorry), and any inaccuracies are mine:

(1) During the dry season, we are unaccustomed to the rain and would
have difficulty maneuvering in it.  We therefore postpone our prayers
for rain until after Succot.  However, during the winter and early
spring, we are accustomed to the rain and have gotten used to traveling
in spite of it.  There is therefore no reason to advance the cessation
of these prayers.

(2) Exceptions to Halacha are based on unique and currently existing
circumstances.  The unique situation on Succot is there are people in
Jerusalem who have to get home.  So instead of starting Tal Umatar
immediately, it is postponed.  Before Pesach, however, people are at
home so everything is normal.  No unique situation exists until the
people are already in Jerusalem.  But by that time, Pesach has arrived
and we stop saying Tal Umatar anyway.

        Any other suggestions?


From: <CHERYLHALL@...> (Cheryl Hall)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:57:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: When Bad things happen

This thread has been going on a while, I've just happened upon an ad for
a new book specifically aimed at being a traditional response to
suffering as opposed to Harold Kushner's When Bad Things happen to Good

The March 7 Jewish Book Club News primary selection is "Why me, God? A
Jewish Guide for coping with Suffering" by Lisa Aiken.

Lisa Aiken is a traditional Jew, holds a PHD in Clinical Psychology. She
is the author of To Be A Jewish Woman and co-author of The Art of Jewish
Prayer with Rabbi Yitzchok Kirzner.

The blurb and interview in the magazine seem promising. I have read her
other books and attended her lectures in the past, and anticipate this book
is the one posters have been waiting for. 

Cheryl <CHERYLHALL@...> Long Beach CA USA


End of Volume 23 Issue 27