Volume 23 Number 42
                       Produced: Wed Mar 13 21:12:07 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

120 Divided into 40's
         [Yosey Goldstein]
         [Nadine  Bonner]
bugs in food
         [David Hollander]
Chametz in the mail
         [David Hollander]
Chometz in the mailbox
         [Gideon Miller]
         [Malcolm Kovacs]
Pidyon Haben
         [Chaim Shain]
Pikuach Nefesh - please read!!
         [Robert A. Light]
Shiva Asar B'Tammuz
         [David Charlap]
Spousal Abuse (3)
         [Anonymous, Anonymous, Zvi Weiss]
Starbucks coffee
         [Arielle Cazaubon]
The Cookies in the Mail
         [David Charlap]


From: Yosey Goldstein <JOE-G@...>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 10:42:20 EST
Subject: 120 Divided into 40's

A poster mentioned that Moshe's life was divided into 3 eras of 40 years
each, as was Rebbi Akiva's life. There is a Yalkut Shimoni that lists
and groups several people and their ages. Under the 120 year category in
addition to Moshe Rabbenu and Rebbi Akiva is Rabban Yochonon Ben Zakkai.
We know from the Gemmorah that his life is also split up into 40's. If I
remember correctly the three 40's are: 40 learning 40 Teaching and 40
where he make Takkanos. If someone remembers the source please check and
verify that I am correct. (Sorry I do not own a CD-Rom)

The same poster said 40 symbolizes completeness. I would like to hear a
source for this. I remember when Ner Yisroel celebrated their 50th
anniversary A "Yovel" Rab Yaakov Kaminetsky ZT"L came and he said that
fifty years symbolizes completeness. That is why by a Jewish "slave" the
Posuk says he will work "forever" (LE'OLOM) and Chazal say that means
until Yovel. Because the 50 years which ends at Yovel symbolizes a
completeness a form of "Forever"



From: Nadine  Bonner <102560.1102@...>
Date: 12 Mar 96 23:36:29 EST
Subject: Bugs

  I went to a Passover forum the other night given by Rabbi Benjamin
Shandalov, kashrus director for the Chicago Rabbinical Council. He
pointed out that a large part of the bug problem in today's produce is
because many bugs have developed immunity to the insecticides used. He
said that until DDT was banned in the 60s, there wasn't much of a bug
problem. But they discovered it was also unhealthy for people.
  He also said that iceberg lettuce is easier to use than romaine
because it doesn't attract as many bugs and because the leaves are thick
and stiff, the any bugs that do infest it slide off during washing. He
said that he uses it at his seder instead of romaine.


From: <David_Hollander@...> (David Hollander)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 10:19:00 EST
Subject: bugs in food

 In MJ 23:38 David Mescheloff <meschd@...> writes:

> I long ago gave up eating lettuce, except the kind specially raised 
>here in Israel, in hothouses fitted with special netting that keeps the 
>aphids out, and that usually only for Pesach.  I persuaded the kibbutz 
>to supply only that special lettuce to the members for the seder for the 
>past several years.

   My Rav told me that since it is questionable what blessing to say
before eating hydroponic romaine lettuce, one should say Shehakol.
Since some hold the maror (bitter herbs) should be HoAdama (blessing for
vegetables grown in the ground) he did not advise using it for maror.

>  This last group, he suggests, must be all right, because otherwise 
>Jews could never have drunk water in the past, since it must have been 
>dirty, before modern municipal filters came into use, and it was not 
>possible to inspect every grain of dirt.

>... In the past, water has not generally been one of those food items 
>halacha required inspecting.   Parenthetically, I am apalled by the 
>similarity between the argument that suggests our ancestors were 
>primitives who drank dirty water and arguments by anti-halakhic Jews 
>about how advanced we are in comparison to our ancestors.  Frankly, 
>there are many reasons to believe they drank water generally as clean as 
>ours, if not cleaner - but I am trying to be brief.

        Note the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 109:2 says one should filter the
water used to bake Matzos.


From: <David_Hollander@...> (David Hollander)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 10:07:30 EST
Subject: Chametz in the mail

 Many of us called 1-800-free-box for a sample of Total cereal.  I
called a while ago and just got my box yesterday...


From: <Gideon_Miller@...> (Gideon Miller)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 09:30:40 EST
Subject: Chometz in the mailbox

In response to Steve White's inquiry regarding Chometz that arrives in
the mail after the time it is forbidden for a Jew to own Chometz, I
remember a few years ago in Baltimore, MD. the entire Community came
home from shul Yom Tov morning to find samples of Crispy Wheats and
Raisins sitting in their mailboxes.  The local prominent Rabbonim
reacted immediately and word was spread throughout shuls that all should
have in mind to not make a kinyan- transfer of ownership, and that the
samples should be left in the mailboxes for the remainder of Pesach,
afterwhich they were to be burned.  If anyone remembers other details of
the incident, please share.

Gideon Miller 


From: Malcolm Kovacs <mkovacs@...>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:50:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Names

A postscript to Moshe Sokolow's recent explanation of the name Shneur.
Chasidus offers a different explanation (which isn't to dispute Mr.
Sokolow's).  Shei-or means two lights and is hinting at the two lights
or aspects of Torah, Nigla (the revealed Torah) and Nistar (the hidden
Torah). One contemporary expert in Chassidus, Rabbi Nissan Mangel, who
also has advanced education in science, explains this by a comparision
to the strength of intense laser lights in contemporary science and
medecine.  To fully treat some maladies ( of the spirit in Golus)
requires the double dosage of both aspects of the Torah.


From: Chaim Shain <GOODMAN@...>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:23:53 CST
Subject: Re: Pidyon Haben

We, G-d willing, will make a Pidyon Haben for our son on March 19 and
would like to hear some insights on this topic regarding the ritual and
customs.  Please respond, thank you.
                                               Chaim Shain


From: <light@...> (Robert A. Light)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:59:25 -0500
Subject: Pikuach Nefesh - please read!!

I am looking for someone who will be traveling from Israel to the U.S. this
week or early next week.

I need someone to ferry some medication to us from Israel that is a
last-ditch effort to save someone's life (suffering from brain cancer).

Please send email to me directly at    <light@...>   if you can help me.

Thank you.

    - Robert Light

Robert A. Light                           <light@...>


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 13:21:23 EST
Subject: Shiva Asar B'Tammuz

<Krukshank@...> (Jacob Lewis) writes:
>When does the fast of Shiva Asar B'tammuz begin and end? My rabbi said it
>wasn't a full fast, but he didn't elaborate.

All fast days, with the exception of Yom Kippur and Tisha B'Av, are
daytime fasts.  That is, you can not eat during the daylight hours.
So the fast begins when the sun rises and ends when the sun sets.

As Avi mentioned, these times are disputed by various rabbis.

The most strict opinions hold that sunrise is as soon as the sky begins
to lighten, even if it is still dark out, and that sunset is when it
gets dark enough to see three stars in the sky.

The most lenient opinons hold that sunrise is when the disk of the sun
is visible on the horizon, and that sunset is when the disk of the sun
just disappears over the horizon.

To find out what times you should follow, ask your rabbi.  Communities
generally synchronize for events like this, and you should do what the
rest of the local Jewish community does.


From: Anonymous
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:21:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Spousal Abuse

	Having read the responses to my post I thought that I would make
a few comments. (just a note I only know about my own case so I am not
sure about the halacha in general).

Perry Samek raised a few questions.

	1. Does the Bet Din have an obligation, if it knows that the
	person is/was a wife-abuser and that he is contemplating
	marriage, to warn the woman concerned, under the laws relating
	to permissible lashon hara?

	2. If others know, do they also have an obligation?

The one of the conditions for my getting a Get (which I do not have yet
and am not sure when I will get), is that I am not allowed to let anyone
know that I was abused.  This also meant that I had to go to everyone who
did know and tell them not to say anything.  I will not get the Get it if
becomes public (at least not with the bet din that I am dealing with).  As
that is the situation no one seems to care about the next person my
husband marries. No one has even mentioned therapy. 

	4. Under what circumstances can or should a Bet-Din require a
	husband to give a Get? Is this possible in the US? Israel? 

As of yesterday I was told that if I did not give in and give him what
ever he wants I will not get a GET.  Personally I plan to get a GET but
the Rabbi involved is bending over backwards not to "upset" the man.  They
wanted me to go back to him!!! 

Joshua Brickel raised a few other questions.

	I mentioned that had the mikva lady said something I would not
have found it out of place.  The same goes for everyone else.  In my
personal experience I found that the advantage of the physical abuse was
that you knew what it was. The verbal abuse is sometimes much worse.  It
took me months to realize that I was being destroyed word by word. I was
lucky that I woke up one morning and figured out that I was not a horrible
person and mother.  I think that it is clearer to people on the outside
what is going on. Friends might be able to say something to the victim and
help. Even to let them know where reality really is, what is right and
wrong.  A few months ago I believed what I was told and almost believed
that it was my own fault that I was being hit.  YES everything that you
hear is true about abuse! 

> > Everyone has to be educated.
  (What is wrong with bringing it up in Kallah classes even.)

What I meant to say was that this is something that people have to learn 
to recognize and respect as a horribly powerful way to destroy people.

I want to thank you all for your response, I just wish that I had heard 
it a long time ago.  

From: Anonymous
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:01:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Spousal Abuse

While we all sympathize and empathize with the woman undergoing a
divorce for abuse, and are shocked by the Bais Din involved barring her
from revealing her IY"H soon to be ex-husband's identity, so long as we
do not know for sure that this Bais Din consists of chauvinistic
mysoginist old-world Rabbis, we may be dan them l'kaf zchus (judge them

a) They may feel that public disclosure at this time will exacerbate a
delicate situation and impede the get - there will be time enough later
for warnings.

b) They may feel that so long as it is "her" word against "his", there
is insufficient evidence to, in essence, destroy his future life.

Not all Rabbis are contemptible and condemnable, certainly without a
little thought.


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:21:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Spousal Abuse

Just a suggestion re spousal abuse.  IF a Mikva attendant (or someone
else who is alert) really does not know "where to go", I am pretty sure
that the Mental Health Section of the AOJS (Association of Orthodox
Jewish Scientists) can provide more than adequate guidance.  Also, if he
is in the country, one can try to call Rabbi Dr. Twersky at the Gateway
Center in Pennsylvania... (There is also a Twersky (son) who is a
psychiatrist in Elizabeth but I do not have current info in front of
me...).  The phone number of the AOJS is in the phone book...

It is sad but not surprising that the Beit Din seems more interested in 
protecting THE HUSBAND rather than the woman...  I would STRONGLY suggest 
(because it may involve pikuach nefesh) that AFTER she gets her get, this 
woman contact a Posek as to whether she is still under a "gag order"...



From: <tarac@...> (Arielle Cazaubon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:43:40 -0800
Subject: RE: Starbucks coffee

I just heard this announcement about Starbucks on the radio in San
Diego, and very few details were given.  After further reflection, I
wonder if the problem is not with a flavored syrup added after the
coffee is made, such as the vanilla/ hazelnut/ chocolate syrups
manufactured by Monin and Torino that I have seen in some cafes.  I
don't think those syrups have hashgacha and they would of course render
the coffe treif.  Someone would have to contact OU directly for the
whole story.


[Just to note, my understanding is that the OU knows little about this
announcement as well. It comes from one of the Kashrut magazines, and
not from the OU. Mod.]


From: <david@...> (David Charlap)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 13:11:41 EST
Subject: The Cookies in the Mail

<StevenJ81@...> (Steve White) writes:
>Well, ok, but suppose the cookie came in the mail, which doesn't arrive
>'till noon?  Or it came Monday, day 2 of chag?

Couldn't you just leave them in your mailbox?

I'm sure someone will correct me, but I didn't think an object that
someone gives you becomes yours until you actually take posession of it.
In the case of a box of cookies, this would be when you pick it up.

I would think that if you leave it in the mailbox, without picking it
up, then the box would remain in the halachic domain of the sender.

Now this, may cause a different problem if the sender is Jewish - now
there's a piece of chametz that he knows about, owns, and can't destroy.


End of Volume 23 Issue 42