Volume 24 Number 02
Produced: Thu May 16 6:38:05 1996
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Ba'al Korei Listening to Directions
[Steve White]
Bat Mitzvah trip
[Nina S Butler]
Children Attending Remarriage of Parent
[Michael J Broyde]
Entering a shul without a mechitzah
[Howard Eagelfeld]
Holiday/School Conflicts
[Judith Wallach]
Holocaust Museum
[Eric Jaron Stieglitz]
Layning and troupe
[Michael Perl]
Remarriage (2)
[Stephen Phillips, Gad Frenkel]
Shecheyanu on Sefirah
[Russell Hendel]
Social Interactions
[Jeremy Nussbaum]
Tikkunim
[Steve Albert]
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From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:16:10 -0400
Subject: Ba'al Korei Listening to Directions
In #96, in reference to the ba'al korei listening to directions, Israel
Pickholtz remarks:
>The problem isn't so much not knowing how to read - its not knowing how
>to listen.
From my perspective as a ba'al tefila and occasional Ba'al Korei, I
think sometimes people literally can't hear the difference. Whether
they should then be leining is a different issue, but dan l'kaf z'chut.
Steve White
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From: Nina S Butler <nsbst5+@pitt.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:21:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bat Mitzvah trip
We gave our eleven-year old daughter a tough choice: local Bat Mitzvah
party, or trip to Israel. Thank G-d, she was mature enough to make what
we hope will be the more meaningful and memorable choice of a
Mother-Daughter trip. We hope to go for ten days, A"H, the beginning of
June. Since we ony have 10 days, we must select places to go and people
to see VERY carefully. We welcome any suggestions you might offer to
make this a memorable Mother-Daughter Bat Mitva trip. Feel free to post
your suggestions directly to my e-mail account, if you wish, at
nsbst5+@pitt.edu. THANK YOU!
Nina Butler
FYI - we're modern-orth. Worth it to take her to Michlala and the
other girls' yeshivot, or is she too young to get much out
of that? So much to do - so little time! We're also
interested in tour guides, but this $300/day stuff is WAY
out of our range! Nu? THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!
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From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:01:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Children Attending Remarriage of Parent
One writer asked:
> Has anyone heard of the "minhag" that children do not attend the
> remarriage of a parent? If such a "minhag" does exist, does anyone know
> of a source for it?
My notes indicate that it is a common custom in chasidic communities and
is cited by the Netai Gavreil on Hilchot Nissuan (sorry, no page
number). It is also referred to in the haskama to Rabbi Levi's sefer on
torah umada (the writer of the haskama states that the philosophy of
torah umadda to him is kind of like watching one's parents remarry -- it
is not a bad thing, but it makes one a little uncomfortable.) The
tradition I have from my rabayim is that it is not the standard practice
in classical ashkenazic communities to keep this custom.
Michael Broyde
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From: Howard Eagelfeld <actmark@...>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:33:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Entering a shul without a mechitzah
I understand that R. Moshe Feinstein wrote a teshuvah that having a
bimah in front of the shul is no longer problematic but was only
prohibited when it typified Reform.
By similar logic, are the teshuvot which were written in the 1950s
prohibiting entering a shul without a mechitzah under any circumstances
now not operative with respect to "Traditional" shuls? These shuls
maintain all halachically correct nusachot and minhagim with the sole
exception that the mechitzah is not always present or is not sufficient
to meet halachic standards. If they had wished to become Conservative
synagogues there has been ample time for them to join that movement.
However, they maintain their "unorthodox" orthodox nature and can
sometimes be nudged toward more halachic practice. Is kiruv possible if
even entering is not possible?
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From: Judith Wallach <jwall@...>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Holiday/School Conflicts
I would like to hear from other people about this problem
My son will be a senior at a public school in california. Next year's
graduation date has been set. It is on Shavuot. We are asking to move
the graduation,although there are only about 4-5 students who care.
If you know if this has been done at your school or anywhere else, I
would appreciate a response.
Please respond to my e-mail address.
Thanks in advance
Judy
Judith Wallach
<jwall@...>
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From: Eric Jaron Stieglitz <ephraim@...>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:46:17 -0400
Subject: Holocaust Museum
Carl Sherer <sherer@...> wrote:
> Has anyone out there taken children to the museum? If so, what were
> their reactions? What would you have done differently if you had it
> to do over again? What is the museum like? And by the way, do we
> still need to buy tickets in advance? If so, where?
My family visited the museum in August of '94, when my brother was 13
and my sister was 9 1/2. My brother was able to appreciate the museum in
its entirety and I think he got quite a bit out of the experience.
Unfortunately, the majority of the museum was entirely inappropriate for
my sister.
The had a very nice children's display at the entrance to the museum,
which I think Chavi was able to appreciate. Once you get inside the main
part of the USHM, it is a one-way trip through the 3 floors of the
museum -- you cannot exit and then re-enter. In other words, if you have
any doubts that a child will not be able to patiently walk through the
entire building, *don't* take him/her! To fully appreciate the museum,
you will need to spend a few hours there. Soon after we finished the
first of the three floors, my mother had to take Chavi outside where
they waited until my father, brother, and I finished.
I think that your 12.5 year-old may appreaciate it, your 7-year-old
won't, and you need to decide if your 10.5-year-old can last through a
self-guided tour that is *at least* 3 hours.
When we were there, the children's exhibit didn't require tickets and
most certainly was appropriate for a 7- and 10.5-year old.
Eric Jaron Stieglitz <ephraim@...>
Home: (212) 853-4837/6795 Assistant Systems Manager at the
Work: (212) 854-6020 Center for Telecommunications Research
Fax : (212) 854-2497 http://www.ctr.columbia.edu/people/Eric.html
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From: Michael Perl <mikeperl@...>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:10:57 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Layning and troupe
Ira Rabin rightly comments on the distortions in meaning that may occur
due to incorrdetly singing the troupe. He comments that some baalei Koreh
don't know the difference between a Pashta and a Kadma. When you say
this, Ira, I presume you mean in the way it is sung. Did you mean
anything other than that?
Another question. At the time of my barmitzvah, my rov, Rav Silberman, a
very experinced Baal koreh, told me that if one incorrectly pronounces a
word and then says the name of Hashem, the error is not corrected. That
is, you do not go back and fix your mistake if it involves taking
Hashem's name in vain.
I have not noticed this practice followed in many shuls and am wondering
what is the 'standard' practice?
I am currently preparing a boy for his barmitzvah (IY"H) parshat Ki-Tavo.
I would like to hear some thoughts on whther it is permissible for him to
layn Shishi, which contains the Tochahah (curses). One thing that comes
to mind is that given what a boy his age openly reads today in newspapers
and magazines, such layning would not be all that shocking.
On the other hand, it is usual for the baal koreh to be called for that
aliyah and the barmitzvah intends on being called up for maftir.
I would appreciate some comments.
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From: <stephenp@...> (Stephen Phillips)
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 10:30 BST-1
Subject: Remarriage
>From: Jack Smythe <kermit@...>
>Has anyone heard of the "minhag" that children do not attend the
>remarriage of a parent? If such a "minhag" does exist, does anyone know
>of a source for it?
A widow in our community recently married a widower. Neither the bride's
nor the bridegroom's children attended the wedding. Our Rav said that it
was because of Kovod [honouring] to the other parent.
Stephen Phillips.
<stephenp@...>
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From: Gad Frenkel <0003921724@...>
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 13:52 EST
Subject: Remarriage
>From: Jack Smythe <kermit@...>
>Has anyone heard of the "minhag" that children do not attend the
>remarriage of a parent? If such a "minhag" does exist, does anyone know
>of a source for it?
When I remarried and wanted my children to attend my wedding, a few
well-intentioned (and some not so well-intentioned) individuals brought
up this supposed minhag. I asked one of the major poskim here in
Baltimore who told me "There is no such minhag". Now, I'm sure that in
his many years he has heard of the practice of keeping children away, so
I took his response to mean exactly what he said - there is no such
minhag. When the yenta brigade was still not satisfied, I discussed it
with my M'sader Kiddushin, an older well respected shul Rav, who felt
that on the contrary, it would be inapproriate for my children not to
share in their father's Simcha.
Gad Frenkel
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From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 12:41:38 -0400
Subject: Shecheyanu on Sefirah
I am responding to [Sukenic, V23#70] regarding lack of shechiyanu on the
counting of the sefirah. I heard the following thought from the Rav,
Rabbi Joseph B Soloveitchick.
The Rav noted that the primary source of mourning on Sefirah is
attributed to the death of Rabbi Akibah's students. However, said the
Rav, many of the crusades started around the summer months and their
were large casualties in the Jewish community. The Rav suggested that
these large casualties are responsible for three responses (that are
expressions of grief or mourning)
Saying Kadish Yathom originated from the crusades
Cancelling of "lesason vesimcha" in the Rosh Hashana Shmoneh Esray (even
though it occurs on other Yom Tov shmoneh esrays...The rav said he
had personally seen Machzorim before and after the crusade period and
this difference was blatant)
Heighthened mourning during Sefirah.
Since the crusades happened in the summer the presummer (Shavuoth) and
post summer months (Rosh Hashana) were affected. The Rav also said that
when people seek hetayrim to do things during the sefirah they are very
often insensitive to this source of mourning and were there a heightened
awareness perhaps people would be less anxious to find heterim (he did
not single any one practice in particular)
Although the Rav did not connect the crusades with not saying shecheyanu
it appears to me that such a connection may give an added insight.
Needless to say if Siddurim with changed texts could be found then this
would be a primary reason.
Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d. ASA, rhendel @ mcs . drexel . edu
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From: <jeremy@...> (Jeremy Nussbaum)
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 0:02:46 EDT
Subject: Social Interactions
> 2) Someone wrote:
>
> :that Sara pose as his sister), or the mishna in Pirkei Avot about
> :avoiding social intercourse with women, to support the view that even
> :inside of marriage the ideal is to avoid sexual tension. I would
>
> The Mishna that I remember says 'al *TARBEH* sicha im *HA*ishsha' --
> and not 'al t'socheach' and 'im nashim' or 'im ishto'...
> If the author of this mishna had wanted to write
> 'avoid social intercourse with women'
> he would have done so -- but, he did not.
The full mishna reads: Yose ben Yochanan of Jerusalem said: ...
and do not gossip with women. This has been said even with regard
to one's own wife, how much more does it apply to another man's wife.
Hence the sages ay: Whoever gossips with women brings harm to himself,
and he neglects the study of Torah and in the end will inherit Gehinom.
(Avot 1:5)
Jeremy Nussbaum (<jeremy@...>)
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From: <SAlbert@...> (Steve Albert)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:40:42 -0400
Subject: Tikkunim
I've used several -- the Ktav, the Tikun Lakorim Hechadash (don't know
the publisher, but the "B/Beis" pattern on the inside cover pages is
distincitive), and the Tikun Korim from Mishor which came out fairly
recently (with a haskama from the Badatz Yerushalayim). There are a few
differences worth noting:
1. The Ktav Press one is older -- and doesn't have some of the
mistakes that crept into at least one newer edition I've seen (though
there are still a few, if I remember -- nothing's perfect).
2. Some of the newer ones have a major advantage for learners /
occasional baalei kriah -- the columns are parallel. If one is going
over the layning, and wants to confirm the nikud or trope on a word, the
word is in the identical position in the parallel column.
3. Does the tikun also have the megillos, especially Megillas Esther?
4. Some have useful supplements. For example, the Mishor has all five
megillos, a calendar supplement, brachos and mi sheberachs, and about
twenty pages giving halachos for sifrei torah and kriah and relevant
sections on Hebrew grammar for baalei kriah, e.g. shva na and nach,
dagesh, etc.
Finally, I'd like to recommend a book a found a few years ago
called "The Glory of Torah Reading" (Tiferes HaKriah); it was written by
an experienced Baal Koreh as a guide for others. I found it useful --
and it's the only work of its kind I know of in English.
Steve Albert (<SAlbert@...>)
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End of Volume 24 Issue 2