Volume 24 Number 33
                       Produced: Tue Jun  4 23:55:08 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Answering Davar SheBiKdusha on Radio or Television
         [Carl & Adina Sherer]
Details in the writen law?
         [Ari Shapiro]
Forced Chalitza
         [Chana Luntz]
Grape Juice
         [Chaim Wasserman]
Grape Juice (even if not from Concentrate) for the Seder
         [Russell Hendel]
Modern treatment of Hilchos Treifos
         [Isaac Balbin]
Pre-nupital Agreements
         [Lisa Halpern]
Sacrifices away from the Temple site
         [Moshe Goldberg]
Skirts, Makeup and Sirens
         [Stanley Rotman]
Social Security Number
         [Carl & Adina Sherer]
Yom Tov Sheini (and Purim)
         [Carl & Adina Sherer]


From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:52:23 -0400
Subject: Administrivia

Hello All,

I hope to be getting out a number of Administrivia messages over the
next few days. I spent some time digging back into my mailbox (when it
goes over 1000 messages, I get an added incentive), so here are a bunch
from the end of April that I think are still relavent. My apologies to
many of you for not getting your posting out in a timely manner, or
having it slip to where it was no longer meaningful to send them out.

Avi Feldblum
Shamash Facilitator and mail-jewish Moderator
<mljewish@...> or feldblum@cnj.digex.net


From: Carl & Adina Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:28:02 +0000
Subject: Answering Davar SheBiKdusha on Radio or Television

Today at work my office mate had on the radio listening to the 
ceremonies from Har Herzl marking Remembrance Day and I was stuck 
with a quandry.  Do I answer the Kaddish I hear on the radio or not?  
Anyone know?

-- Carl Sherer  
Carl and Adina Sherer


From: <m-as4153@...> (Ari Shapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 20:02:00 EDT
Subject: Details in the writen law?

In recent weeks we have read the parshas discussing the building of the 
Mishkan (Holy Tabernacle), the Bigdei Kehuna (the special clothes a Kohen 
wears), Korbanos (sacrifices) and tzaraas (commonly translated as leprosy).
The Torah goes into great details describing these things (i.e describing 
exactly how the mishkan was made down to the bolts), we have 4 parshios 
dealing with the mishkan and bigdei kehuna. Yet, most other mitzvos in the 
torah have little detail (in the text). For example when the Torah commands
us to put on tefillin it offers us no details as to what tefillin are made 
of, look like, etc., when the torah says don't do melacha on shabbos it 
doesn't say what is prohibited, when the torah says to slaughter animals 
it doesn't explain how etc. in the text. All the detail is in the oral law.
Does anybody know of any explanation why the above mentioned mitzvos
(mishkan, bigdei kehuna, korbanos, tzaraas) have so much detail in the
written torah while most other mitzvos don't (the explanation is in the
oral torah)?

Ari Shapiro


From: Chana Luntz <heather@...>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 20:47:43 +0100
Subject: Forced Chalitza

On the subject of forced gitten, does anybody know whether the same
rules apply to chalitza? (a friend of mine's husband died in tragic
circumstances, and her (sole) ex-brother-in-law apparently wants some of
the compensation that everybody expects to come through sometime in the
next decade when the case finishes winding its way through the courts,
but since she doesn't *have* the money yet, he is refusing to do



From: <Chaimwass@...> (Chaim Wasserman)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 23:57:41 -0400
Subject: Grape Juice

In a message carried in mj 23 #71 Melech Press wrote:
>- such prominent poskim as the Minkhas Yitzchok and
>Rav Shlomo Zalman zikhronam livrakha felt that one cannot make a borei
>pri hagofen on such grape juice.

What about R. Moshe Feinstein zatzal who held that it is acceptable to say a
boray pri hagofen on grape juice diluted from concentrate? There is full
documentation on this available in paper form from R. Aaon Tirschwell of
National Council of Young Israel, 3 West 16 Street, New York, New York 10011.

chaim wasserman


From: Russell Hendel <RHendel@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:08:32 -0500
Subject: Grape Juice (even if not from Concentrate) for the Seder

The discussion by [Press, Brotsky, Segal etc in V23#71] about using
Welch's grape juice for the four cups leads me to ask the following

I once mentioned to Rabbi Jordan Kellemer (currently in LI) that I used
Grape Juice, not wine, on Shabbath because I personally liked the sweet
taste of Grape juice and found wine a little bit too strong.  I
commented that I thought it more consistent with Halachah to use
something sweet.

Rabbi Kellemer responded by observing that my logic was OK for Shabbath
but not for the Seder.  He acknowledged that grape juice is generally
SWEETER than wine.  However, the ARBAH KOSOTH has another component
BESIDES SIMCHATH YOM TOV, namely, CHERUTH, an affirmation of freedom.

People, continued Rabbi Kellemer, who wish to affirm their adulthood
don't generally use Grape Juice which is available and popular even with
children and other not completely free people. Adulthood/Freedom is best
confirmed thru "adult" drinks like wine.  So, concluded Rabbi Kellemer,
even though from a Simchath yom tov point of view the grape juice is
better, nevertheless, the 4 cups should be of wine for reasons of

Rabbi Kellemer was not MY POSAYK; however because of the logic of his
arguments I never again had grape juice, but only wine, during the

However, according to the recent discussions in MJ it would appear that
the only OBJECTION to grape juice is if it is from concentrate.  Could
someone please clarify the situation for me?

More specifically, I am asking if it is permissable (or preferable) to
use pure Grape Juice for the 4 cups seeing that wine not grape juice is
needed to affirm CHERUTH.  Please note, I am not asking for PESAK's in
books; I am rather asking for a response to the logic of Rabbi
Kellemer's observation.

I of course would be eternally "grapeful" if I could go back to having
sweet grape juice on Yom Tov

Russell Hendel, Ph.d. ASA
Dept of Math and Computer Science
Drexel Univ; Phil PA 


From: Isaac Balbin <isaac@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:42:08 +1000
Subject: Modern treatment of Hilchos Treifos

Does anyone know of an audio/visual or multi-media treatment of
Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah, Hilchos Traifos?



From: <ohayonlm@...> (Lisa Halpern)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 20:28:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Pre-nupital Agreements

I would like to add to Chaya London's comment that she added a clause to 
her ketubah to reduce the possibility (chas v'shalom) of her ever 
becoming an agunah.  10 days before my husband and I married (before not 
seeing each other for the week before the wedding!) we signed a 
pre-nupital agreement that essentially stated that if God forbid we ever 
were to encounter problems continuing our marriage, we would submit 
ourselves to the jurisdiction of a recognized beit din, and if they 
recommended obtaining a Get, neither of us would refuse to grant or to 
accept it.  We acquired this document, which is legally binding in a US 
court of law, from our LOR.  A similar document (with much greater 
detail, which is why we didn't choose to use it)  is also availble 
from the RCA.  We encourage all men and women to sign such halachically 
appropriate, legally binding documents before their marriages.  If this 
becomes normative practice, all of am yisrael can be freed from this 
terrible problem.
Lisa Halpern


From: Moshe Goldberg <mgold@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 08:50:33 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Sacrifices away from the Temple site

Ed G. asks about sacrifices being limited to a specific site, while before
the Torah was given there was no such limit. There is no problem with this,
it simply describes the situation. From the time the Torah was given, the
Jews (and the Jews only -- see below) were forbidden to offer a sacrifice
anywhere but in the Temple (except for the time when the Tabernacle was in
Shiloh, when private altars were permitted).

Rabbi Elitzur Segel wrote an article in Techumin, volume 14 (1994), page
501, where he describes the law for a non-Jew offering a sacrific today.
His conclusion is that a Gentile is permitted to bring some types of
sacrifice, and that he is not confined to the Temple site. He quotes
various sources. For example, Tosefta Korbanot 13:1, which says:

"Till the Tabernacle was built, the bamot [private altars] were permitted
.... Only 'Olah' sacrifices were offered ... The Gentiles are permitted to
do this at this time [bazman hazeh]."

Another source is Zevachim 116b: "'Speak to ... Bnei Yisrael ... whoever
slaughters outside of the camp ... will be cut off from the nation'
[Vayikra 17:2-4] -- Bnei Yisrael are forbidden to sacrifice off the site of
the Temple, but Gentiles are not prohibited. Therefore, any Gentile is
permitted to build a private altar and offer any sacrifice that he wants."
The Talmud then goes on to discuss whether a Jew is permitted to help the
Gentile in his sacrifice or give him advice.


From: <SROTMAN@...> (Stanley Rotman)
Date: Tue,  23 Apr 96 13:15 0200
Subject: Skirts, Makeup and Sirens

I'd like to join in the attack on Yisroel Rotman's comments about makeup
being to attract men's attention.  The message was written before 7
A.M., and I personally know that Yisroel is not responsible for anything
he says before then.  The word "men's" should be stricken.

I'd like to raise the tone of the discussion to a differnt point.  We
just had the annual siren sounding in Israel in memory of the fallen
soldier.  If there is such a thing as a secular mitzvah in Israeli
society, standing at attention at this moment is it - NOONE takes it
likely.  A person who did would be harshly criticized by society.

How does halacha react when society seems to define certain actions as
being forbidden while others as being permissible?  Despite one writer's
comments, I don't believe that it is obvious that makeup must be allowed
- nevertheless, in most circles, it is.  What is the mechanism that
halacha uses to take into account the general practices of society?
Even more so, how does halacha avoid flailing away at windmills,
preaching positions that simply won't be accepted.

Stanley Rotman,   (close relative of Yisroel Rotman)


From: Carl & Adina Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 00:25:45 +0200
Subject: Social Security Number

I just wanted to publicly thank all those who responded to our request for
help with getting our daughter a social security number.  Just before
Shabbos we got a message saying that she had been issued a number this past
Tuesday - some five months after our second application.  May the wonders of
bureaucracy never cease.  Yasher Koach to all who helped out.

-- Carl Sherer
Carl and Adina Sherer

[And just two months or so late in my getting this out. Mod.]


From: Carl & Adina Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:28:02 +0000
Subject: Yom Tov Sheini (and Purim) 

A number of people have posted regarding the obligation of visitors 
to Israel to keep a second day of Yom Tov and of Israeli visitors to 
Chutz La'aretz to refrain from doing work on the second day of Yom 
Tov.  I would only like to add a recommendation to those who are 
interested in the subject that they find the book "Yom Tov Sheini 
KeHilchaso" by R. Yerachmiel David Fried, which gives comprehensive 
treatment to all of these issues,as well as to issues regarding 
changing minhagim (customs) in general.  I believe the book has also 
been translated into English by one of the large publishers.

One poster asked why Yom Tov was different from spending Purim in 
Yerushalayim.  Purim was entirely a Rabbinic decree and has different 
rules from the other holidays.  Purim has a concept of "paruz ben 
yomo" (one who is temporarily - even for one day - dwelling in a city 
without a wall) regarding when one is required to hear the Megilla.  
There is even a disagreement among the Achronim as to what decides 
when one should hear the Megilla - one's location when darkness falls 
on the 14th of Adar (which if I recall correctly is the Chazon Ish's 
view) or when the day of the 14th begins (Mishna Brura 688 Note 12).

-- Carl Sherer
Carl and Adina Sherer


End of Volume 24 Issue 33