Volume 24 Number 43
                       Produced: Sun Jun 16 21:41:33 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

"Kohelet" with a vav
         [Israel Pickholtz]
Answering Amen to a Radio Kaddish and Minhagim
         [David Mescheloff]
Birkat Kohanim
         [Shalom Carmy]
Davening Errors
         [Yisrael Medad]
         [Barak Greenfield]
         [Chaim Schild]
         [Brian A. Kleinberg]
Purpose of Posts
         [Chaim Shapiro]
RSR Hirsch and Symbolism
         [Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer]
         [Janice Gelb]
Talmudic puns
         [Gershon Dubin]
         [Gad Frenkel]


From: Israel Pickholtz <rotem@...>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 05:26:14 +0300
Subject: "Kohelet" with a vav

Does anyone know of any commentaries that relate to:

1) "Kohelet" with a "vav" = 541 = "Yisrael"

2) "Kohelet" appears six times without a "vav" 
   and one time with - and that one time it also
   has a definite article.

Israel Pickholtz


From: David Mescheloff <meschd@...>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:20:13 +0200 (WET)
Subject: Answering Amen to a Radio Kaddish and Minhagim

Thanks to Elhanan Adler (v.24 no. 42) for his reference to R. Ovadiah
Yosef's responsum on answering Amen to a radio kaddish etc. (indeed, the
references I gave also referred only to live broadcasts).  Apparently
his conclusion is the same as that of R. Kook zt"l.  Yasher Koach.

About a month ago, Jack Smythe asked about the existence of a "minhag"
for children not to attend a parent's remarriage, and its possible
source (v. 23, no. 98).  Several haverim responded (v. 24 no. 02),
including Rabbi Broyde (a chassidic minhag, but not standard practice in
classical ashkenazic communities), Stephen Phillips (a widow married a
widower and the children did not attend - the Rav said because of honor
to the other parent), and Gad Frenkel (wanted his children at his
remarriage, and was told by a major posek in Baltimore "there is no such
minhag", and by his m'sader kiddushin that, on the contrary, it would be
inappropriate for his children not to share his simcha).
 I think this is a good example of how an LOR must be available to help
his community and its members do that which is appropriate.  I bring the
following just for the informational value, not to suggest what is or is
not appropriate in any given situation.
 While looking for something else, I came across a brief reference to
this "minhag" by Rabbi Chaim David Halevy, Shlita, chief (Sefardi) Rabbi
of Tel Aviv (Aseh Lecha Rav vol. 4, 5741, page 285) (here is a free
translation): Yes,it is the custom for children not to take part in the
remarriage of their mother, who was divorced from their father.  I have
not been able to find a clear, explicit reason for this anywhere, but it
seems to me to be based on good thinking (sevara).  As long as their
mother had not remarried, there was a possibility she might remarry
their father; after she remarries another, however, she becomes
forbidden to their father forever. It would not be respectful to the
father to take an active part in the ceremony which forbids his wife to
him forever.
 Furthermore, even if she is already forbidden to their father (see Even
HaEzer 10), yet when she remarries another the children will become duty
bound to show him honor as their mother's husband (Yoreh Deah 240).  It
would not be respectful to the father to take part in the ceremony which
creates his obligation to honor his stepfather, particularly if the
children are small and live with their mother, so that they will have
permanently exchanged the honor they owe their biological father to the
honor they owe their step-father.  Thus, this minhag of not
participating in the mother's remarriage seems quite appropriate.

Note, at least part of this reasoning would support the decision of Gad
Frankel's rabbis.

May Hashem grant us only happy news to share.

David Mescheloff


From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Birkat Kohanim

1. Yes, R. Soloveitchik strongly favored birkat kohanim on when Yom Tov
fell on Shabbat.

2. On the history of the various minhagim, see Yitzchak (Eric) Zimmer's
article in SINAI #100, reprinted in his OLAM KE_MINHAGO NOHEG.


From: <isrmedia@...> (Yisrael Medad)
Date: Mon, 27 May 96 18:42:35 PDT
Subject: Davening Errors

I think I sent this out when we previously dealt with the
matter (several years ago?) but what won't we do to prevent
the final Shabbat morning song is "an-eem z'mirot"
and not "anim zm'irot". "An-eem" = I will make pleasant.
Yisrael Medad


From: <DocBJG@...> (Barak Greenfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:40:30 -0400
Subject: Fax/Nolad

Chaim Schild is incorrect in his rebuttal of Russell Hendel's views on
fax machines and nolad:

 " The point is the same logic to prohibit fax and email on
Shabbas cited above, also forbids one to own (or give someone as a
gift..i.e. send a fax) a digital watch or any LCD or LED display. We do
not rule with Beis Shammai that the kelim must be made to rest on
Shabbas and electrons are not our animals. One must be careful with
these technological issues: one of my favorites is that some people do
not open their fridge if the motor is not already running....these same
people should never run the AC or heat in their house on Shabbas unless
they are staying home inside all Shabbas."

It is true that we are not required to rest keilim on Shabbat, but
neither are we permitted to activate them on Shabbat to accomplish
forbidden activities. Therefore, if opening the refrigerator on shabbat
will definitely cause the motor to turn on, it is prohibited (p'sik
reisha d'nicha lei), because a human being was the causal factor behind
the forbidden activity.  Similarly, if an item (e.g. words on paper of a
fax) is produced anew, issues of nolad may justly be raised; the fact
that a k'li was involved does not remove the issur. In fact, according
to Mr. Schild's rationale, I should be permitted to operate any
forbidden appliance on shabbat since, after all, I'm not doing anything
wrong--the k'li is!

The point about the LCD display is well-taken, if by it Mr. Schild is
suggesting that it might be prohibited to read an ever-changing LCD
display (such as on a watch) on shabbat.

Barak Greenfield, MD


From: <SCHILDH@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 08:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Flowerpots

The differences between flowerpots with and without drainage in terms of
kilayim, tumah and taharah, shabbas, are scattered throughout the
Talmud.  Is there anywhere with a summary of the halachas of flowerpots?
I once looked into Encyclopedia Talumudica and unless I looked
incorrectly there is no entry for "Ahtziz" i.e. Flowerpot



From: Brian A. Kleinberg <103231.1072@...>
Date: 13 Jun 96 15:50:15 EDT
Subject: Orlah

I planted raspberry bushes in my backyard this week and would like to
know if anyone can tell me whether bushes fall under the "orlah" law of
not eating the berries the first three years. Please send me the answer
back to:
 Brian Kleinberg, 103231,<1072@...>


From: Chaim Shapiro <ucshapir@...>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:54:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Purpose of Posts

	Yehuda Prero hit the nail on the head (as usual...we went to
yeshiva together, and he was just as perceptive then).  My objective in
posting was not to start an argument that would vilify any segment of
Orthodox Judaism.  Thats why I twice mentioned that such behavior is in
no way indicative of a community as a whole (in retrospect, perhaps I
should have posted without indicating which segment of people would or
would not give me rides).  But, as with many of my posts, I wanted
people to start thinking about an issue.  Would the situation be
different, or even reversed if I wore a hat and jacket?  I recieved a
personal e-mail with a request not to post by a modern orthodox man who
said that he realized upon reading my post that he refused rides to
right wingers on many occasions.  My point is_ its wrong_.  Saftey issue
aside, (which is why I never expect rides from frum women I don't know)
Orthodox judaism should never be divided to the extent that frum men who
would give rides on freezing cold nights don't simply because the person
they see is either more or less "Frum" than they are.
 Chaim Shapiro


From: <sbechhof@...> (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:17:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: RSR Hirsch and Symbolism

Russel Hendel recently discussed "Rabbiner" Hirsch's symbolic approach
to mitzvos. It is worthwhile noting that Rav Kook described this
specific aspect of Hirschiana as a "step outwards." This, to the best of
my understanding, because the more mystically inclined thinkers perceive
that every nitzva carries an inherent and specific increment of kedusha
which it imparts to the doer.

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer


From: <Janice.Gelb@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:52:45 -0700
Subject: Shidduchim

I have been reading with some bemusement the threads on just how much
one should tell when asked about a participant in a proposed shidduch,
and just how much one should take into account what one learns. I
suspect I am not the only one reading this list who only wishes that the
people in my community would be concerned enough about getting Jewish
singles together to even attempt to *make* shidduchim, let alone try to
find out the detailed background information the questions on this list

While the very large, frum communities do take an interest in this
subject, smaller, more "modern" communities often do not.  This is
especially true for singles beyond the age of finishing school and
starting a job. And it is even more serious a problem for those who are
not all the way over into the frum camp but are still pretty observant.

National Jewish organizations and local community groups often rail
against intermarriage, and synagogues hold meetings to discuss how they
should deal with non-Jewish partners of members or potential members. I
wish they spent half as much time trying to solve this problem by
organizing ways to match Jewish singles up with each other.

-- Janice

P.S. I should note that some sporadic attempts have been made in my 
community but it definitely is not a community priority.

Janice Gelb                  | The only connection Sun has with this      
<janiceg@...>   | message is the return address. 


From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 09:14:00 -0400
Subject: Talmudic puns

I am interested in cases of Talmudic humor, usually puns.  Two

The gemara in Pesachim 9B uses the phrase "is then the 'chulda' a
prophetess, referring to a chulda which is some type of rodent in a
specific halachic context, but punning on the name of Chulda the

The well-known story about Shabbos foods being tastier because of a
special spice called "Shabbos".  The story is well-known, but not so
well known is that shabbos is actually the name of a spice mentioned in
the Mishna.

Any other contributions?

<gershon.dubin@...>        |
http://www.medtechnet.com/~dubinG   |


From: Gad Frenkel <0003921724@...>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 09:23 EST
Subject: Weddings

I don't know if this subject has ever been brought up in this forum, but
if not I would like to initiate it.  But rather than just anecdotes and
personal experiences, I would like to hear some ideas as to what might
be able to be done to change the situation.

The situation that I'm refering to is the cost and extravagance
associated with weddings (I realize that this has crept into Bar
Mitzvahs and even in some communities Bas Mitzvahs, but for now let's
focus on weddings).  I don't know what the avearge cost of a wedding is
today, but with all of the financial problems of Jewish institutions
couldn't that money be used for a better purpose.  Even if famililes
don't want to give it away as Tzadakah, couldn't their children put it
to better use, for example as a down payment on a home or as a tuition
fund for their future children.

All this assumes that the parents even have the money.  How many people
take loans or second mortgages just so they can produce the type of
wedding that has become standard in our communities. Even if people have
the money, what does the too common glaring ostentatiousness, and its
implicit approval, say about our values.

The Lev Simcha of Ger, when he became Rebbe, institued a number of
practices aimed at dealing with his community's financial issues.  For
example, he sucessfully encouraged newly married couples to settle
outside of Yerushalayim where housing was affordable, and threatened
that if the price of shtreimlich didn't come down he would stop wearing
one. He also made a ruling that limited the size of weddings.  When a
rich chassid came to him and said that while he understood that such a
ruling was important for people of modest means, he being wealthy could
easily afford to make a large wedding and should be allowed to do
so. The Rebbe reportedly responed back that if he was so rich he should
go out and buy himself a new Rebbe.

Perhaps our average Rabbonim don't have such clout with their
congregants or students, but maybe with community backing they might
feel more empowered.  In the early seventies there was a movement that
never really took off that preached what was called Voluntary
Simplicity.  The idea was that in an attempt to improve the quality of
their lives, and avoid the pressures of the rat race people should
voluntarily to do away with those things in their lives that they didn't
really need. Perhaps as a community we should begin engaging in
voluntary simplicity.

Gad Frenkel


End of Volume 24 Issue 43