Volume 24 Number 51
                       Produced: Thu Jun 27  7:53:04 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bracha over Cornbread (2)
         [Lon Eisenberg, Idelle Rudman]
Halchic standing of the settlers in Hebron
         [Harry Maryles]
Jews helping Jews
         [Sheila Tanenbaum]
Kitvai Yad of Rav DavidTzvi Hoffmann
         [Michael J Broyde]
         [Aharon Manne]
Offering rides to strangers
         [Saul Mashbaum]
Tzedaka box in shul
         [Perry Zamek]
Use of electronic medical equipment
         [Ephraim Dardashti]


From: Lon Eisenberg <eisenbrg@...>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 17:16:06 +0000
Subject: Bracha over Cornbread

>Can one say a Motzi over cornbread? In one place I looked, maize was listed
>as one of the five grains which make "real" bread. In another place (Shulchan
>Aruch?), maize was replace by rye. Please don't reply by saying ask your LOR,
>as we are without one until Rosh Hashanah :(

Isn't cornbread made mostly of wheat flour with some corn flour added?
Ask your LB (Local Baker)!

Lon Eisenberg   Motorola Israel, Ltd.  Phone:+972 3 5659578 Fax:+972 3 5658205

From: Idelle Rudman <rudmani@...>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 14:45:44 -0400
Subject: Bracha over Cornbread

>From: <Krukshank@...> (Jacob Lewis)
>Can one say a Motzi over cornbread? In one place I looked, maize was listed
>as one of the five grains which make "real" bread. In another place (Shulchan
>Aruch?), maize was replace by rye. Please don't reply by saying ask your LOR,
>as we are without one until Rosh Hashanah :(

The type of cornbread questioned has to be ascertained.  One bought in a
Jewish bakery is basically a rye bread, with much less wheat flour added
than in a regular rye bread.  This bread is made with yeast, allowed to
rise, has to have challah taken, and a Ha-Motzi should be said over it.
The second type of corn bread is the traditional American cornbread,
which is basically a cake.  If you will look at the ingredients required
for it, you will see that wheat flour comprises a greater part than corn
flour, which is much grainier than the former.  Also, this "bread" is
made w/o yeast, and the liquid used can be "mai peiros" (fruit juice
watered down, or boiling water that has been poured over raisins and
allowed to steep).  This "bread" does not have the appearance of the
breads with which are familiar; loaves, pita style, matzo
style. Therefore the bracha "mezonos" is made over it.  A third type of
cornbread made with corn flour, is made with yeast and water, has to
have challah taken from it and a Ha-Motzi is made over it.  This bread
also has a larger proportion of wheat flour than corn flour.  The
appearance of this bread is the same as traditional breads, i.e., a loaf

B'tay'avon-Idelle Rudman 


From: <Harrymaryl@...> (Harry Maryles)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 18:55:29 -0400
Subject: Halchic standing of the settlers in Hebron

The Yated's position Re: the settler issue i.e. that pikuach nefesh overides
Hilchos Yishuv Ha-aretz is definatly a valid point of contention amongst
contemporary poskim.    There is obviously no dispute about Pikuach Nefesh.
Everyone agrees that the saving of Human life overrides every mitzvoh in the
Torah  (except for the Big Three). It is also, true that when it comes to
public desecration of G-d's Name than even the slightest Mitzvoh becomes a
Yehoreg Ve-al Yavor. (as Eli Turkel Pointed out in his post). It is true that
the settlers are fulfiling the mitzvah of Yishuv Haeretz.  The problem  is
really: (I'm thinking out loud here)  Does the presence of settlers in Hebron
(under the protection of the IDF) help protect the people of Israel from the
onslaught of terrorism or are they just flaunting their presence there and
increasing the already existing tremendous hatred on the part of the Arabs,
which causes further acts of terrorism. If the former is true then we have a
Torah mandated obligation to support the settlers as much as possible.  If
the latter is true then I humbly suggest that now is not the time for us to
take such a strident position with the Arabs.  I believe in my heart that the
latter is true.  The settlers are not only putting themselves in danger but
are also, putting the rest of the country in danger.  The settlers take the
position that the Arabs Hate us so much that you can never really trust them.
(That is probably very true) so therefore, why not settle Hebron with force.
  I personally don't think one helps matters by "being in your face" to the
enemy.  The settlers pay lip service to saying they want peace with their
neighbors but  they seem to be constantly taunting them. It also, seems to me
that The settlers put the mitzvoh of Yishuv Ha-aretz in the YeHoreg Ve-al
Yavor category.  This is nonsense!  Now I admit I could be wrong about this
issue. I don't live there.  But Rav Schach does!   And he is certifiably
qualified to express a halachic opinion on the subject!   There are those
like my Rebbe, Rav Aaron Soloveichik,  Shlita, who hold that it is Assur
(forbiden by Torah Law) to give back any land  held by Jewish hands.  Of
course no one disputes that Halacha.  The problem is what do you do when
Pikuach Nefesh becomes a Factor?  Again everyone agrees that Pikuach Nefesh
overrides Yishuv Ha-Aretz.  The Problem, again, is do we have a Pikuach
Nefesh in the Hebron/settler situation, and to the extant that we do, which
is the better solution ,to stay or to go.  It appears the one could give the
Pikuach Nefesh argument either way.  It seems to me that that is the essence
of the disagreement between Rav Schach and Rav Aaron.  Rav Schach holds that
Pikuach Nefesh dictates that the settlers leave Hebron and Rav Aaron believes
that the Mitzvah of Pikuach Nefesh is served by staying in Hebron (with the
protection of the IDF etc.) and in the process one can fulfil the Torah
mandate of Not relinquishing land that is in Jewish hands.  Please forgive
my somewhat rambling on the issue as I said earlier I am thinking out loud
and would like to hear the opinions on the subject from other mjers if any of
you are so inclined.
Harry Maryles


From: <sheilat@...> (Sheila Tanenbaum)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 21:52:55 GMT
Subject: Jews helping Jews

>In a previous post, I made the comment that a person with a hat 
>and beard never stopped to give me a ride even once in my five+ 

Several years ago my then college-age son and I were driving to
Brooklyn, on a Friday afternoon. Our car stalled out just a short
distance past the Brooklyn Battery tunnel. My son, wearing a
kippah. walked back to the tunnel, to see if he could find a phone to
call for help. We saw several tow trucks pass, but not for us. Suddenly,
a fellow wearing a kippah, driving a station wagon, with several young
kids, toddlers, even, pulled over. He not only tried to jump start our
car, but when that was futile, disconnected his own battery, started our
car, and when it was running, replaced the batteries. All of this on a
Friday, with little kids in his car.

So -- don't bad mouth people. 
And if by any chance that fellow  subscribes to m-j, bless you! 
Sheila Tanenbaum 


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 01:21:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kitvai Yad of Rav DavidTzvi Hoffmann

It was recently mentioned to me by a friend that he saw an ad 
in one of the religious papers offering to sell kitvai yad of Rav David 
Tzvi Hoffmann.  The person did not remember the ad or any other 
information.  Has anyone seen such an ad, or know of a person who is 
seling ketvai yad of Rav Hoffmann?  I am an interested customer.
Michael Broyde
fax 404 727-3374.


From: Aharon Manne <manne@...>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:31:42 GMT
Subject: Minhagim

David Mescheloff mentioned the phrase '"dvarim ha-mutarim ve-akherim
nahagu bahem issur", which is recognized as a halachically valid way of
forbidding that which might otherwise be permitted, '.  I believe
R. Daniel Sperber's book "Minhagei Yisrael" has been mentioned on this
list before; on this particular subject I recommend looking at the
appendix to the second chapter, entitled "erroneous customs" (minhagei


From: <mshalom@...> (Saul Mashbaum)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:11:24 EDT
Subject: Offering rides to strangers

It is interesting that no one responded to Chaim Shapiro's posting on
being offered rides with additional anectdotal information.  Perhaps no
one else in MJ readership doesn't have a car!

I live in Jerusalem. Many Jerusalemites are familiar with a spot near
the entrance to the city going towards Ramot where hitch-hikers
congregate. About half the time I drive by this spot on the way home,
and about half the time, when my dear wife has the car, I stand there
and try to hitch a ride home.  (In modern jargon one would say that I am
both a provider and a consumer of hitch-hiking services).

On principle, I stop and offer a ride to anyone at the hitch-hiker's
spot - soldiers, settlers, non-religious, kipa sruga, black hat.  I'm
obviously talking about a reality where I do not feel physically
threatened by anyone at the spot.

What's more relevant is that I am also *offered* a ride by a variety of
drivers (I wear a kipa sruga; my affiliation is a bit more complicated
than that, but drivers don't know that). I would estimate that the
percentage of ride-offerers who are "black-hatters" reflects very
roughly the percentage of "black-hatters" who drive by.

It's tempting to try to draw far-reaching sociological conclusions about
the differences between the Chicago and Jerusalem Jewish communi- ties
based on the experiences Chaim and I have had. I don't suggest we get
carried away, but I do think there's a real difference here.

I would like to point out that a number of years ago I attended an
evening of lectures in a "black-hat" shul near where I live, in which
one of the rabbonim, in the course of a discourse on the need to do acts
of hesed, specifically exhorted those in the audience who have cars to
offer rides whenever possible. He even suggested that drivers approach a
particular intersection in the right lane, since that would would make
picking up people at a popular bus-stop feasible, instead of driving in
the left lane and then saying "I can't get over".

Although in many spheres I think the Jewish community here is plagued by
the "them and us" syndrome readers have pointed out in discussing this
subject, it seems that in hitch-hiking, and perhaps some other areas,
the situation in Jerusalem is much better.

Perhaps when the Moshiah comes riding in on his donkey, he'll give
someone a ride on the way.

Saul Mashbaum


From: <jerusalem@...> (Perry Zamek)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:20:04 +0300
Subject: Tzedaka box in shul

Israel Pickholtz in mj, v24n44, asked:
>On occasion, I daven at a kollel that has the custom of taking the 
>tzedaka box around between keriyat shema and amida of Maariv.  That 
>seems to me to be a strange time.  (The person doing the collecting is 
>davening at the same time.)
>Anyone know a source for this custom?

I would suggest that it is a reflection of the common approach to give
tzedaka before davenning, on the basis that, before we ask Hashem to
show us mercy and provide for us (the middle brachot of the Amidah are
requests), we should make an effort to provide for others less
fortunate, and in merit of the mitzvah, we should be taken care of
(Midah ke'neged Midah -- measure for measure).

More generally -- there are a few places in tefillah that Tzedakah is
considered appropriate, or is commonly collected (here I refer to
Shacharit, but the same applies to Mincha as well):

1. Before tefillah starts
2. During the paragraph Vayevarech David... (And David blessed) in Psukei
De'Zimra (the Mishnah Berura mentions this one specifically).
3. During Chazarat Hashatz (the repetition of the Amidah).

 From various experiences, I would argue that the collection during
chazarat hashatz is somewhat problematic Halachically, unless it is very
unobtrusive.  During the repetition of the Amidah one should be
listening to (and concentrating on) the Amidah text. If someone rattles
a tzedaka box under your nose, it isn't conducive to concentration. (As
an aside, one should not do any other kind of activity during this time,
including learning or catching up on tefillot -- the Mishnah Berura
states that this will enourage those who are less learned to see this as
a time to talk...) An additional problem is where the collector goes up
to each individual, putting him "on the spot". A more reasonable
approach would be to go up an down the shul, watching for those who
signal that they wish to contribute.


Chaim Schild, in the same mj issue asks about the sentence in our siddurim:
"HaShem Melech, HaShem Malach, HaShem Yimloch L'olam Vah'ed". While I can't
answer his specific questions, I can  point out the following: The Mishnah
Berura states that one should not make an interruption in reciting this
verse (during Psukei de'Zimra, although I would suspect that this rule also
applies in other cases too). It is clear from the verse itself that it is a
declaration of the eternity of God and His rulership over the universe.
Therefore, an interruption would, metaphorically, "interrupt" that
rulership, or, at least, our acknowledgement of it.

Perry Zamek   | A Jew should hold his head high. 
Peretz ben    | "Even in poverty a Hebrew is a prince... 
Avraham       |       Crowned with David's Crown" -- Jabotinsky


From: <yehudi@...> (Ephraim Dardashti)
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 08:27:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Use of electronic medical equipment

Is a Jew dependent on electronic medical equipment allowed to use such 
equipment at a shul on Shabbos?  Redently a wheelchair bound man was 
advised that it is best that he should stay at home and daven as a 
yachid and not use his electronic wheelchair to travel to shul on 
Shabbos.  Has there been psak on such related matters?

Ephraim Dardashti


End of Volume 24 Issue 51