Volume 24 Number 69
                       Produced: Thu Jul 18  0:18:40 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Beis HaMikdash 0, I, II, III
         [Chaim Schild]
Bris on a Fast Day
         [Ira Y Rabin]
correcting word stress errors in Torah reading
         [Herschel Ainspan]
Davening errors
Electronic Sheimos
         [Micha Berger]
Faith, Holiness and Some Nifty Hirschian Etymologies
         [Russell Hendel]
Faithful sickness
         [Al Silberman]
Mazal Tov
         [Robert Schoenfeld]
Milchemet Mitzvah
         [Joseph Steinberg]
Reading of Shema
         [Aharon Goldstein]
Story by Agnon
         [Saul Mashbaum]
Time-Bound Mitzvot and Women
         [Janice Gelb]


From: <SCHILDH@...> (Chaim Schild)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Beis HaMikdash 0, I, II, III

 From my reading it appears that the number of menorahs (or shulchans) in
the Sanctuary/Heichal was/is/will be:

Mishkan/Tabernacle =               1
1st Temple 10 + 1 (from Mishkan) =  11
2nd Temple=                      1
3rd Temple (Books say)=            1

Although it is clear from Melachim/Kings that King Shlomo was told to
make more, it is not clear why it went down to 1 again in the second
Temple (following Ezekial's prophecy?) or what was the meaning (given by
commentators etc) on why there was more in the First Temple ?



From: <irabin@...> (Ira Y Rabin)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:26:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bris on a Fast Day

	This is in response to the question about a bris on a fast day. A 
few years ago my coisin's bris was on ta'anis ester. The rabbi's psak 
then was that a katan was to drink from the wine. Also with regards to 
the seudah, we were told to have it at night after megillah reading. So 
that purim I we had one seudah at night and the usual one during the 
afternoon.  I'm not sure if this is standard protocol for a bris 
coinciding with a ta'anis, or if it were different b/c purim immeadiately 

-Ira Rabin


From: Herschel Ainspan <ainspan@...>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:14:51 -0400
Subject: correcting word stress errors in Torah reading

	As a followup to the discussion on (mis)pronounciation in
davening, does anyone know if an error in word stress (accenting the
wrong syllable) changes the meaning of the word, such that the error
would have to be corrected during k'rias haTorah?  I know of one
example for sure - in the 1st aliyah of parashas Sh'mos, where
"_ba_ah" and "ba_ah_" (where the underscores surround the stressed
syllable) both occur, one meaning "came", the other "coming".  But in
the 1st aliyah of parashas Mattos, for example, if ba'al koreh
mispronounces the word "v'_ka_mu" as "v'ka_mu_", has the
mispronounciation changed the meaning of the word, requiring one to
correct the ba'al koreh?  Is "v'ka_mu_" a valid verb form, and if
so, what does it mean?  If "v'ka_mu_" is an invalid verb form, does
the halacha assume that the ba'al koreh meant to say the closest valid
Hebrew verb form, which is "v'_ka_mu", and thus we don't correct him?
I would think if the mispronounciation yielded a valid, but incorrect,
verb tense, then we would have to correct the ba'al koreh, as with
"_ba_ah" and "ba_ah_" above.  But I've heard gabbaim refrain from
correcting when the ba'al koreh makes an obvious mispronounciation
that has no meaning as spoken, e.g. "_Mo_she" instead of "Mo_she_",
"_ma_yim _cha_yim el _ke_li" instead of "cha_yim_", etc.
	Kol tuv. -Herschel Ainspan (<ainspan@...>)


From: Anonymous
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 04:03:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Davening errors

If you really want to get sick, go to your child's school and listen to the
1st and 2nd graders chant the birchot hashachar: "zokef ke-FU-fim, malbish
aRUmim, matir aSUrim."  BTW, listen to how many kids (adults?) replace a Bet
with a Daled in Sh'ma: u'veshach-DI-cha.


From: <micha@...> (Micha Berger)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:44:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Electronic Sheimos

When I asked Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l, he permitted letting the
words scroll off the screen for a different reason. The medium is
inherently transient, not because of refresh rate, but because
noone intends to leave the same text up there forever. The classical
case is Sheim Havayah (the tetragrammaton) that is written in the
sand on the beach may be walked upon. Since nothing written on the
beach will outlast the tide, the name has no kedushah.  I appologise
for not providing a source for this, unfortunately, I didn't take
notes during the conversation.

Rav Dovid didn't feel that he needed to understand the technical details
of screen refresh. If the phenomenon is outside a human's ability to
directly observe, R. Dovid would hold that it is irrelevant to halacha.

The whole subject of the continuity of lines drawn out of pixels did
not come up.

Micha Berger 201 916-0287        Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3512 days!
<micha@...>                         (16-Oct-86 -  9-Jul-96)
<a href=news:alt.religion.aishdas>Orthodox Judaism: Torah, Avodah, Chessed</a>
<a href=http://aishdas.org>AishDas Society's Home Page</a>


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 21:06:30 -0400
Subject: Faith, Holiness and Some Nifty Hirschian Etymologies

I am responding to [Shmshoni and Himmelstein e.g. V 24 #58] who discuss
non standard uses of AMN.

To summarize in a nutshell: Rav Hirsch suggests that AMN refers to
intensive MAKING/CREATION/PRODUCING.  AMN differs however from ordinary
production in that it involves *intensive, continuous labor and effort*.
Some examples of this are the following: (a) AMAN means sculpture...not
just "making" something but carefully molding it with attention to
detail; (b) AMAYN means to nurse...not just to "make" or "maintain" the
baby but rather to continually nurture and sustain; help the baby
grow. Similarly says Rav Hirsch (c) EMUNAH=Faith does not just mean to
"surrender (say) to God" but rather to surrender the way a baby
surrenders to a mother or a sculptured piece of art to the artisan...It
denotes total surrender in all detail and aspects of life to God's
ways(I haven't checked but I believe Rav Hirsch says this in his
commentary on the Possok in Lech Lechah...VeHEmin BASHEM....).

Now Shimshoni and Himmelstein bring a yet 4th nuance: AMN could refer to
a disease which is not just a say 24 hour virus but rather a disease
that in effect sculptures itself from human body tissue.  It
continuously eats away from the patient and uses the patient to grow
(like say Cancer).  The English translations that are cited in Vol 24
#58 (e.g. enduring illness) would tie in with the concept mentioned
above of "intensive, continuous, laborious, etc."

In passing I take note that the DIFFICULTY with receiving such
explanations is that the same word seems to mean both good and bad
(faith and sickness).  In reality however the focus of the meaning is
NOT moral (good or bad) but rather on the INTENSITY.  A similar
situation exists with the shoresh KDSH.

In a nutshell: KDSH denotes *intensive preparation".  Some examples
might be (a) Certain types of prostitutes who intensively prepare for
their clients (Kedayshah); (b) Kedushah=Holiness---an intensive
preparation for relationship with God.  The famous Verse in Yoel which
sheds light on this is "Kdshu TZOM KIRU AZATRAH..." = intensively
prepare for a fast....etc.

In closing I note that I often hear how the etymologies of Rav Hirsch
(or Chazal in Midrashim) are unscientific. It is true that Rav Hirsch
sometimes bases etymologies on interchanges in groups of similar
sounding letters and this may or may not have the strongest appeal to
logic.  BUT: The real way to study Midrashim on meaning or Rav Hirsch's
etymologies is *semantic*.  Rav Hirsch very often shows (if we may use a
metaphor) the underlying color or flavor or nuances of a words meaning.
Thus in our example without the above analysis I would think AMAN is
just making while now I am aware of the *type* of making (namely an
intensive continuous laborious one).

I hope the above gives greater appreciation for Rav Hirsch's etymologies
(and similar items in Midrashay Chazal) and encourages their learning.

Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d. ASA, rhendel @ mcs . drexel . edu


From: <asilberman@...> (Al Silberman)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:18:02 -0500
Subject: Faithful sickness

In MJ V24n55 Shmuel Himelstein writes:
>In general, we know that "ne'eman" is generally translated as
>"faithful." I haven't yet figured out the meaning of the word as it
>appears in "Nishmat" on the Shabbat morning prayers, in the phrase
>"Khalayim ra'im ve'ne'emanim" - 'evil/bad and "ne'eman" diseases.'

The gemara in Avoda Zarah 55a addresses this question (following taken from

An Israelite named Zunin said to R' Akiva: We both know in our heart that
there is no reality in an idol; nevertheless we see men enter the shrine
crippled and come out cured. What is the reason?

He replied: I will give you a parable. To what is the matter like? To a
trustworthy man in a city, and all his townsmen used to deposit their money
in his charge without witnesses. One man, however, came and deposited his
money in his charge with witnesses; but on one occasion he forgot and made
his deposit without witnesses. The wife of the trustworthy man said to her
husband, 'Come let us deny it'. He answered her, 'Because this fool acted in
an unworthy manner, shall I destry my reputation for trustworthiness?!'. It
is similar with afflictions. At the time they are sent upon a man the oath is
imposed upon them, 'You shall not come upon him except on such and such a
day nor depart from him except on such and such a day and at such an hour and
through the medium of so and so and through such and such a remedy.'  When
the time arrives for them to depart the man chanced to go to an idolatrous
shrine. The afflictions plead 'It is right that we should not leave him and
depart; but because this fool acts in an unworthy way shall we break our

This is similar to what R' Yochanon said: What means that which is written
"And sore and faithful sickness" (Devarim 28:59)? - "Sore" in their mission
and "faithful" to their oath.


From: Robert Schoenfeld <roberts@...>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mazal Tov

The Aufruf for my son Tve Adiel will be held Shabbos Chazon at Etz Chaim 
Shul in Kew Garden Hills in the basement of Rabbi Erlbaums shul on 73rd 
Ave just wext of Main Street. Any M-Jers in the area are welcome to 
attend. The chassenah (challalah) will be held the next sunday July 28th. 
The chussens e-mailaddres is supposed to be <hschoe@...> but may 
not be working for outside mail yet Nor am simchas

				73 de Bob
+            e-mail:<roberts@...>                   _____              +
+            HomePage:http://www.liii.com/~roberts     \   /              +


From: Joseph Steinberg <steinber@...>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:46:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Milchemet Mitzvah

1) This is in direct contradiction with the priniciple of 'En Somchin Al
HaNess' (We do not rely on miracles).

2) This has been proven to be false time and time again throughout all of
Jewish history. (What do you think it means 'V'gavar Amalek' in the battle
in Moses's days, at Ai, with Kind David's battles [during which we know
people were killed], etc.)



From: Aharon Goldstein <ayg@...>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:55:55 GMT
Subject: Reading of Shema

I  have a question, in the second portion of the Shema, V'hoyo im shmoah,
why does the text keep changing from single to plural, does any have an
explanation to these changes.

Please respond to me to my Email address:"<ayg@...>"

Aharon Goldstein


From: <mshalom@...> (Saul Mashbaum)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:46:28 EDT
Subject: Story by Agnon

I'm looking for a story by Agnon I once read about a hasid who 
was missing for about half a year and was ultimately found to 
have frozen in the bitter Polish winter.

This may be a chapter in a longer work.

Can anyone tell me where in Agnon this appears?

I'd appreciate readers forwarding this posting to someone who might know.
Thank you.

Saul Mashbaum


From: <Janice.Gelb@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 11:29:05 -0700
Subject: Time-Bound Mitzvot and Women

In mail-jewish Vol. 24 #55, Jonah S. Bossewitch writes:

>While we're counting Mitzvot, I was wondering if anybody knew
>the number of time-bound positive commandments.  Does this number relate
>to the traditional connections between this class of Mitzvot and women?
>Backing up a step, what are the standard accounts for women's
>"exemption" from this class of Mitzvot (Shabbat excluded)?  Personally,
>I believe this reflects Judaism's recognition that women are more firmly
>"planted" in time than men are (they know how long a month feels while
>my longest cycle is about day, they are physically connected to their
>offspring, etc...) and hence, do not need to be "taught" a sense of
>time/responsibility to the same extent that men do.

My understanding is that the reason behind this is more practical 
than spiritual: it is unfair to bind a woman to time-oriented 
mitzvah if her primary duty is to take care of children, whose 
needs cannot conveniently be set aside at specific times.

Janice Gelb                  | The only connection Sun has with this      
<janiceg@...>   | message is the return address. 


End of Volume 24 Issue 69