Volume 24 Number 78
                       Produced: Sat Aug 10 23:23:20 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Ezra L Tepper]
Davening Errors, Again
         [Susan Hornstein]
Drashot before Musaf
         [John Abayahou Dayan]
Dry Sherry and Sweet Vermouth
         [Jack Reiner]
         [Ira Y Rabin]
Halakhah and Modern Knowledge
         [Avraham Husarsky]
Is chewing gum kosher?
         [Marc Sacks]
it's a boy!
         [Louis Rayman]
Jewish education
         [Martin N. Penn]
Rosh hashana as day of joy
         [Kenneth Posy]
Shoes required for davening
         [Mordy Gross]
Some questions from Vayikra
         [Josh Backon]


From: Ezra L Tepper <RRTEPPER@...>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 15:09:02 +0300
Subject: Beefalo

Have found no discussion on mail.jewish of the kashruth of the beefalo, a
cross between the American bison and standard beef varieties.

Has anyone heard about this hybrid livestock, which is commercially raised?
One of the better known breeds is called limosin.

Ezra L. Tepper


From: <susanh@...> (Susan Hornstein)
Date: 6 Aug 1996  12:12 EDT
Subject: Davening Errors, Again

Neil Parks writes:
>When the gabbai recites the paragraph to call up a kohain for the first
>aliyah, he should stop after saying "ve-nomar omain" so the congregation
>can say "omain".  But I have never heard one actually stop at that

This problem shows up in Kaddish all the time.  The Shaliach Tzibbur
often stops after "ve-nomar", or else the congregation chimes in with
Amen before the Shatz says it.  As a friend of mine once related to her
class, we must repeat whatever the Shatz tells us to repeat.  So, we
have to wait to see what he tells us to say -- "And let us say..." --
"Ve-nomar WHAT."  And if he were to say, "Ve-nomar Happy Birthday, we'd
have to say "Happy Birthday."


From: <j18dayan@...> (John Abayahou Dayan)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 96 23:39:57 BST
Subject: Drashot before Musaf

In the Golders Green Beth Hamedrash congregation of London (otherwise known 
as Munks); when the Rav, Rabbi Feldman Shelita gives a Drasha the Ashrei is 
not said at its usual place but rather delayed until after the sermon 
followed by Kadish and Musaf.

John AbayahouDayan


From: <jjr@...> (Jack Reiner)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:01:51 -0500
Subject: Dry Sherry and Sweet Vermouth

In our travels from non-observant to BT, we will be crossing the
Kashrut bridge within the next month or two.  We are preparing to
replace our entire food stock.  

My wife's favorite aperitif is Tio Pepe, a _very_ dry sherry.

Any experienced sherry drinkers out there who can recommend a 
kosher equivalent?

My aperitif is Cinzano Sweet Vermouth.  Once again, can someone with
experience recommend a kosher equivalent?

Finally, I need the name and phone number of a liquor store or distributer
in the US who carries these items and will ship small quantities (1 or 2 

Looking forward to exploring your recommendations . . .   :-)

Jack Reiner


From: <irabin@...> (Ira Y Rabin)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:46:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Gabbayim

	This is in response to Martin Penn's post on pronounciations in
leyning and gabbayim making corrections. Most Balley kriah (myself
included) often have to go through a prubbeh before we are hired. Why
can't we do the same for gabbayim? I would like to relate some gabbai
stories from only the past 6 months. 1) As walked up to the bimah to
leyn, the gabbai (not jokingly) asked what parsha it was 2) a gabbai
stopped me right after starting an aliyah, not knowing he was looking at
the wrong aliyah. 3) a gabbai corrected me after I specifically told him
in advance that there was a mistake in the chumash 4) there was a
machlokes according to 2 different tikkun's and many chumashim about
where to end an aliyah, b/c many opinions held that one of places to
stop was, b/c of it's slightly "upseting" content, inappropriate to
stop. When I asked this long time gabbai what the minhag of the shul
was, he had no idea what I was talking about.
	Mr. Penn is right on target when he complains about gabbai
ignorance, and unfortunately not many people seem to care. my advice is
the following. For balley kriah with a lot of experience- Listen to the
corrections that are made to you very carefully. If you know from your
preparations and experience that you are right- then simply just go on.
While we as balley kriah are usually responsible to prepare, most
gabbayim probably haven't even done shnayim mikra v'echad targum. Even
many rabbi's are not knowedgable when it comes to leyning. Remember,
preparing a leyning, or davening with proper nusach and phrasing is not
a requirement for getting smicha. So, if you are sure what you are
leyning is correct, have enough trust in, and respect for yourself that
you have read it correctly.

no one else will. 

Ira Rabin


From: <hoozy@...> (Avraham Husarsky)
Date: Tue,  6 Aug 96 16:49:39 PDT
Subject: Re: Halakhah and Modern Knowledge

>My rebbe, R. Aharon Lichtenstein, addressed these issues.  He stated
>that Hazal (the Sages) did not know everything, and never claimed to.
>On the issue of changing Halakhah to reflect the modern scientific
>understanding of biology and physics, R. Aharon said that he saw no
>problem forbidding something that was permitted by the Sages, on the
>basis of modern science -- e.g. the fact that maggots do not
>spontaneously generate.  However, for reasons that have everything to do
>with Halakhah and nothing to do with science, we cannot permit what
>Hazal prohibited.

two pints regarding the above:

1) please clarify whether "seeing no problem with forbidding" means
enacting a regulation to forbid the item or action, or such item/action
is rendered forbidden by some objective criteria automatically
e.g. since eating insects is forbidden and modern science has determined
that maggots are insects as defined by halachic criteria for the
definition of an insect then it is forbidden automatically to eat such,
or does a rabbi have to enact such a prohibition which will only have a
lower status?  big difference here.

2) i don't see how the converse in the last statement follows logically
for rabbinically enacted prohibitions.  i.e. if the rabbis erred/lacked
knowledge in pronouncing something forbidden, why does it necessarily
stay forbidden when the mistake is corrected or new knowledge is
acquired?  note that i am not referring to items explicitly mentioned in
the torah or elucidated by the rabbis as being torah level prohibitions.
i am rather referring to errors of categorization (such as not including
maggots in the list of biblically prohibited insects) and rabbinical

Name: Avraham Husarsky
E-mail: <hoozy@...>


From: Marc Sacks <Marc_Sacks/Lightbridge*<LIGHTBRIDGE@...>
Date: 30 Jul 96 15:29:29 EDT
Subject: Is chewing gum kosher?

My daughter is attending a Conservative camp which has asked that all
goodies sent to the children be kosher.  My daughter has asked for candy
and chewing gum.  Kosher candy does not seem to be hard to find: all
Hershey products, I believe, have hechshers on them.  However, I have
not found a hechsher on any chewing gum.  Is gum inherently kosher, or
treif?  I can't find any ingredient on the label that would make it
either (no animal product I can identify, for example).  If anyone out
there knows the answer to this (or can route me to this question in the
archive), my family would appreciate it.  Thanks.

Marc Sacks


From: <lou@...> (Louis Rayman)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:48:09 -0400
Subject: it's a boy!

"halo yadata? im lo shamata?"
"Don't you know? Haven't you heard?"  - Isaiah 40:28

With great thanks to HaKadosh Baruch Hu, Rochi, Adin and I would like
to announce the birth, on Tuesday 21 Av (Aug 6), of a baby boy.

Mother and Baby are B"H fine. 
Stay tuned for details on the bris!

  |_  ||____  | Lou Rayman - Hired Gun
   .| |    / /  Client Site: <lou@...>    212/603-3375
    |_|   /_/   Main Office: <louis.rayman@...>


From: Martin N. Penn <74542.346@...>
Date: 06 Aug 96 22:02:53 EDT
Subject: Jewish education

The recent thread on tuition reminded me of a paper I wrote, when I was
a senior in college (1982), about Jewish education in America.  The
premise of the paper was that something was deeply wrong.  I proposed
several ideas though none addressed the tuition issue.  However, one
idea addressed the issue of having the Limudei Kodesh teachers teach
secular studies as well.  As I mentioned, money wasn't the issue.  The
issue was that there are many distractions in society and young boys and
girls are influenced by what's going on around them.  There is so much
pressure to do well in school so that you can grow up to be a doctor,
lawyer or other highly-paid professional, that the hebraic studies tend
to fall off.  The m'chan'chim (men and women) could counter this
negative influence by showing how the hebraic and secular studies work
side by side.  I remember looking up to my secular studies teachers more
than to my rabbeim, except for one rabbi.  He used to play basketball
with us and could keep us interested in chumash just as well.  He was a
very positive role model for me and several classmates and epitomized
what Jewish Education in America should have been -- and should be.
Martin Penn


From: Kenneth Posy <kenneth.posy@...>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Rosh hashana as day of joy

>From: <er@...> (Elie Rosenfeld)
>We certainly, rightfully spend a lot of time having "soul-searching
>experiences" on Rosh Hashanah.  But we shouldn't forget that RH is a
>_Yom Tov_ as well - a day of _joy_.  We make kiddush, we eat festive
>meals, we dip apples in honey!  Friendly socializing is not out of tune
>with the spirit of the day.

While i do not disagree that we make kiddush and eat meals on Rosh
Hashana, I would take issue with the characterization of RH as a "day of
joy". The torah has no mention of simcha on RH, rather calling it "yom
hazikaron" which seems to be a little more solemn. the torah does call
rosh hashana "mikra kodesh" (A holy event?) which explains the necesity
of kiddush. There was clearly a time when people fasted on rosh
hashanah, especially in Israel, when for many years (untile about the
eleventh century) people held one day. Thus, while it may not have the
sense of urgency as Yom Kipur; it is definately a yom hadin more than a
yom simcha.  Thus, I would disagree that Rosh Hashana is a time for
"friendly socializing". While G-d is writing, we should have more
important things on our minds.

Betzalel Posy


From: <mordy_gross@...> (Mordy Gross)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:02:06 PST
Subject: Re: Shoes required for davening

>Is one required to wear shoes when davening? I see a lot of people who
>are apparently strict in this regard, but I can think of numerous
>reasons why one should not be required to wear shoes.

There are many very good reasons not to walk around w/o shoes:
1) Mourners walk around w/o shoes. It is a Symbol of Mourning, and
therefor should not be done by Non-Mourners.
2) Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 2:6 'And one should cover his entire body
and not walk barefoot...' Mishnah B'Rurah 14 'Chazal say "One should
sell all he has to buy shoes for his feet. Although in the Arab places where
they generally walk barefoot, ther is no problem."' 

>1) Moshe is told to take off his shoes when approaching the burning bush
>(admittedly, not the best proof)
>2) Jews took off their shoes before entering the Beis HaMikdash (see Rashi
>on Vayikra 19:30)

These two places, by the burning bush and the Bais Hamikdash, were
places of extreme KeDushah, and no one was allowed to enter them Derech
Arai, like he was just passing through. Therefor one must remove all
traveling utensils, namely, staffs money bags and shoes before entering.

>3) We daven without shoes on Tish'a B'Av (non-leather foot coverings are
>not classified as shoes) and Yom Kippur.

The reason, as already explained is because of mourning.

>Is there any reason to be strict about wearing shoes when davening in general?

The main reason is probably for common decency. Most people would not
attend a formal or even informal event barefoot. Therefor prayer should
be no worse.


From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Thu,  8 Aug 96 8:17 +0200
Subject: Re: Some questions from Vayikra

Jonathan Katz asked about the language used for hunting TZAYID and how
could this be reconciled with kosher slaughter. They probably used nets
that were thrown over the animal to capture it.

Josh Backon


End of Volume 24 Issue 78