Volume 24 Number 87
                       Produced: Sun Sep  8 23:35:12 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baby Using a Radio on Shabbat
         [Moshe Hacker]
Being a guest
         [Warren Burstein]
Calling a Jesuit Teacher Father
         [Myron Chaitovsky]
Jew and non-Jew souls
         [Warren Burstein]
Jewish vs Non Jewish souls---A halachic Contribution
         [Russell Hendel]
Married Women not Covering their Hair
         [Michael J Broyde]
Mishna and Halacha Yomit
         [Moishe Friederwitzer]
Proper way to bury discarded, damaged holy texts
         [Sam Jacobs]
Red Thread (2)
         [Danny Schoemann, Rick Turkel]
Shaarei Teshuva and the month of Elul
         [Danny Schoemann]
The Shma (2)
         [Mordechai Gross, Stan Tenen]


From: Moshe Hacker <HACKERM@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:22:20 EST
Subject: re: Baby Using a Radio on Shabbat

I know that it is impossible for a parent to go into a childs room that
has a monitor and not trigger it off. The one that I have a Fisher Price
one, is so sensative that it picks up the walking on the floor outside
my sons room.
 kol tuv

Moshe D. Hacker   Columbia Presbytarian Medical Center


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 06:13:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Being a guest

I agree with every word of the anonymous poster except for the very
end, where one of the things that a guest who is begged to return does is

> Sends a donation for their aliya.

Guests in my shul are not expected to send a donation for their aliya.
And if they do, I wouldn't know about it, because I'm not the shul
treasurer, the only person who knows about it.

If I was a guest at a shul where the procedures were different, I
would expect my host to let me know.  Were this not done, and I found
myself in a situation where I was thought to have become obligated to
send a donation, I would not return even if begged.


From: <MCHAIT.BROOKLAW@...> (Myron Chaitovsky)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:20 EST
Subject: Calling a Jesuit Teacher Father

re Chaim Shapiro's dilemma (24:83)in not wanting to call his teacher, a
Jesuit priest, "father":

When I attended Fordham Law School, also Jesuit, I was the only Yarmulke
in my section. I was also the only one to refer to my Con Law professor,
a priest, as **Professor** Whelan. He noticed it, but only smiled.
OTOH, Prof. Whelan himself, in his analyses of, e.g. abortion cases, was
always careful to bifurcate between his position as a Con Law scholar
and that of Catholic priest.

So, my suggestion to Chaim is to remain bifurcated. It seems that
"professor" should do in this non-religious setting.  Of course, Chaim
should explain his position to his teacher; that he only means this out
of respect; and that it is because he takes his teacher's religious
title seriously (and not just as an honorific) that he even has a
problem to begin with.  He may find the prof. very understanding.  Then
too, he might suggest that he call him Rabbi,which means teacher :) .


From: <warren@...> (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 06:02:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Jew and non-Jew souls

In response to a question posted by someone else (whose name didn't
appear in the message to which I am responding)

>I was asked if there is an intrinsic difference between the soul of a
>Jew and that of a non-Jew, and if so, prove it.  I refered him to a
>passage in Tanya (last section of ch.1; first section. of ch.2).  He
>then asked 1) do all orthodox believe this (that Jews and non-Jews are
>different in essence, not just in codes of behavior or even in
>chosenness)?  and 2) If yes, is there a more normative, universally
>accepted source that makes the point.  Can you help on this?

Mordy Gross writes:

>A Jewish soul has in adition to a Nefesh [which can be translated as a
>spirit (the thing which makes the body live,)] a Neshomoh, whereas a
>non-Jew only has a Neshomoh.

The above does not answer either of the questions, namely "do all
Orthodox believe this?" and a request for a source.  This view about
souls was never taught to me as part of my Orthodox yeshiva education,
so the first question cannot be answered "yes".  I don't know of any
universally accepted source about what Orthodox Jews believe other
than the Rambam's 13 principles.


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:55:53 -0400
Subject: Jewish vs Non Jewish souls---A halachic Contribution

Several recent postings in Vol24 # 80 discuss the possible difference
between Jewish and non Jewish souls.  I would like to supplement the
discussion by quoting what the Rav Rabbi Joseph Baer Soloveitchick said
on the matter.

The Biblical Verse in Ki Taysay, "...Do not let his carcass "lie" on the
tree..."  requires *immediate* burial (except for delays for the
deceaseds honor).  The Rav said that this law applies to non jews as

The rav then used this as a springboard to discuss the differences
between Jews and Non Jews.  When one person suggested "Jews are created
in Gods image" the Rav responded by quoting Genesis 1 and noting that
*all* humans are created in Gods image. However continued, the Rav,
there is a difference between them.

The Rav explained that Jews have KEDUSHAH while non Jews don't.

He didn't elaborate but it is easy to point to a Myriad of halachas:
temple laws, Kashruth, Niddah laws, Synagogue respect laws, etc which
all point to a requirement of creating, maintaining and supporting a
status or atmosphere of Kedusha.

In terms of the Mail Jewish discussion I would like to make 3 points:
 1) If both Jews and Non Jews are created in Gods image then it doesn't
seem to makemuch sense to say that one soul has "more Divine image" than
the other.

 2) Alot of the sources quoted in MJ were from the mystical
literature. The Rambam rightly prohibits reading mysticism till one is
well versed in halacha and halachic methodology.  The reason the Rambam
gives is because "otherwise, the mysticism will be misinterpreted".

In this particular case, people who *ignore* a Biblical verse stating
that all humans are created in Gods image and follow some obscure
mystical passage are grossly misinterpreting the mysticism and erasing a
fundamental concept of Judaism (the divinity of all people).

3) The idea suggested by the Rav that Jews have more Kedusha is totally
consistent with MJ suggestions that one has to "work" = do Torah and
Mitzvoth, to achieve this status of Kedusha (albeit there is still a
little Kedusha even if one doesn't work since the offspring of a Jewish
women have jewish status even if unfortunately no Mitzvoth are done).

I hope these thoughts help delineate exactly what we as Jews have and
are suppose to do.

Russell Hendel, Ph.d, ASA  rhendel @ mcs . drexel . edu


From: Michael J Broyde <relmb@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:45:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Married Women not Covering their Hair

One writer recently asked:
> I am interested in determining whether there are any halachic bases for
> two somewhat common practices: frum married women keeping their hair
> uncovered in public and men having their payos essentially removed
> during a haircut.
> My rov told me yesterday that he had once assumed that there must be
> some obscure heter permitting married women to keep their hair uncovered
> given how widespread the practice is.  However, when preparing for a
> shiur on the topic, he was unable to find any t'shuvos stating this was
> permissible.  Does anyone know if anyone actually poskens this way?

As to whether any of this amounts to a "halachic basis" I will leave to a 
different time and place, but for a list of halachic authorities who 
pasken that there is no obligation for a women to cover her hair in a 
society where modest women generally do not, see:

Sefer Yehoshua (Babad) #89
Sefer Chukat Hanashim (by Ben Ish Chai) chapter 17
Sefer Sanhedria pages 201-202
Shut Mayim Chaim (Masas) 2:110 and his otzar michtavim #1884
Shut Vaheshiv Moshe (Malka) 34 (of Rav Moshe Malka)
Yad Halevi (Hurowitz) Aseh 165

This can also, perhaps, be implied from Machatzit Hashekel EH 21:5

Yet other poskim understand that the obligation is not to have
dishevelled hair, and neatly uncovered in a bun or the like in

Penia Moshe  EH 21:5
Yad Efraim 75:1
Etz Efraim OC 12a (of R. Efraim Sulutz)
and perhaps Divrie Menachem (Kasher) OC 5:2:3
Vayashev Moshe (Burla) YD 1, 2 3 in the name of Rav Mattityahu Tzurmani.

One can add, perhaps, to this list those poskim who -- while they do not
rule this conduct permissible -- classify the issur in a way which
allows or compels one to conclude that covering is not mandatory when
other modest (jewish) women do not cover.  Included on that list is:

Sefer Aleh Hamittzvot (Chagiz) 262
Sefer Hamitzvot LeRav Sadia (Perlow) 1:650
Shevut Yaakov (Resiher) EH 103
Shut Dai Hashiv EH 4
Shut Teferet Moshe (Cohen) 2:10.

Similar understandings of the sugya in ketubot 72 which indicate that
thee obligation is time and place bound, can be found in Nitzev
commenting on Sifri Naso 5:10 and Minchat Ani 1:45-46(R. David
Sondsheim).  Someewhat similiar rationales can be found Shut Rav
Yitzchak Halevi 9 (The Taz's brother), and Shut Moshe ibn Chabib EH 1
both of whom discuss whether an arusa must cover her hair in a manner
which indicates that the obligation is time and place bound.

*****It is important to note that the vast majority of halachic
authorities of the last generation clearly reject the psak of any of
these poskim.  Among those who rule the obligation to cover immutable
and timeless in a public location are Rav Ovadia Yosef Yechave Daat
5:62; Rav Eliezer Walenberg Tzitz Eliezer 6:48; Dayan Weiss, Minchat
Yitzchak 6:106; Rav Moshe Feinstein, Iggrot Moshe EH 1:53 and Rav
Y.Y. Weeinberg Seredai Eish 3:30.  Many others could be added to this
list.  Caveat Emptor, and this list is provided with that

Michael Broyde

[A private note to the initial poster:  Who is your Rav?  There are a 
couple of articles on this now, including an article by Meir Schiller in 
volume 30 of the J. Halacha and Con. Soc. on this topic, and an exchange 
on it in the next issue.  I also have a responsa to a conservative type 
article on this topic in Judaism volume 40:1; the initial article that I 
am responding to is volume 39.]


From: <zaidy@...> (Moishe Friederwitzer)
Date: 27 Aug 1996 13:35:28 EDT
Subject: Mishna and Halacha Yomit

If anyone is interested in receiving a Mishna / Halacha Yomit calendar
please send me an E mail request with your snail mail address. The
Luachs are free. This year marks the 50th year of Mishna Yomit. In two
months we will be finishing Seder Nezikim and beginning Seder Kodshim.
WE learn two Mishnayot and three Halachot daily. "Anyone who learns
Halacha everyday is assured of the Olam Haba (end of Mesechta Nidah)
 Moishe Friederwitzer


From: Sam Jacobs <jacobs@...>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 21:30:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Proper way to bury discarded, damaged holy texts

	Can someone tell me the proper way to bury old prayer books etc?
I know that they should be gathered together, placed in a wooden box and
buried in the Jewish Cemetery.  Are there any prayers to be said as the
box is buried?  Does one need a regular burial plot or can one use the
area near the fence?  Please excuse my ignorance. I simply cannot find
any references or guidance.  Sam Jacobs


From: Danny Schoemann <dannys@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:51:53 +0300
Subject: Re: Red Thread

In Mail-jewish Vol. 24 #83, A.M. Goldstein wrote:
> What is the significance, and history, of the pieces of red thread handed
> out by some of the lady charity-seekers in the area of the Kotel (Western
> Wall)when one gives them zeddakah?         

The red thread is meant to ward off Ayin Hora, as follows:

1) Ayin hora can be bestowed upon a person who causes the "ayin hora
giver" to feel jealous. (So said Rav Frand in the "jealousy - the enemy
from within" tape)

2) A red thread worn on the arm is supposed to look ugly. By appearing
ugly (so to speak) people won't be jealous of you.

BTW: Rav Frand's protection from Ayin Hora (quoted from the Michtav
M'Eliyahu) is to become a giver, as people like givers. So once
you've given a charity-seekers something, you no-longer require a
red thread :-)


 | | <DannyS@...> <<   Danny Schoemann  >> | |      Tower of 
 | | Ext 273               << Tel 972-2-6793-723 >> | |      Babel !!

From: <rturkel@...> (Rick Turkel)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:24:47 -0400
Subject: Red Thread

A. M. Goldstein <mzieashr@...> asked in m.j 24#83:
>What is the significance, and history, of the pieces of red thread handed
>out by some of the lady charity-seekers in the area of the Kotel (Western
>Wall)when one gives them zeddakah?

Red has been associated with warding off the `ayin hara (evil eye) since
time immemorial, both among Jews and in the general culture.  One
wonders whether such superstitious behavior as wearing a red thread has
a legitimate place within normative Judaism, although it certainly has
become more widespread over the past few years.

Rick Turkel         (___  _____  _  _  _  _  __     _  ___   _   _  _  ___
<rturkel@...>)oh.us|   |  \  )  |/  \     |    |   |   \__)    |
<rturkel@...>        /      |  _| __)/   | ___)    | ___|_  |  _(  \    |
Rich or poor, it's good to have money.  Ko rano rani | u jamu pada.


From: Danny Schoemann <dannys@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:57:29 +0300
Subject: Re: Shaarei Teshuva and the month of Elul

In Mail-jewish Vol. 24 #83, Yitzchok Adlerstein wrote:

Many people have a custom of studying Shaarei Teshuva of Rabbenu
Yonah during the month of Elul.  I have heard of an abridged version -
not of the book, but of the study.  Certain key chapters are learned,
rather than the entire book.

Does anyone know which sections are included?

We were always encouraged to learn the second chapter that enumerates 
the various categories of sins and gives examples. 

The reasoning was that unless you know what you've done wrong, you 
cannot relate to the first chapter that talks about amending those 

 | | <DannyS@...> <<   Danny Schoemann  >> | |      Tower of 
 | | Ext 273               << Tel 972-2-6793-723 >> | |      Babel !!


From: <mordy_gross@...> (Mordechai Gross)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 01:01:55 EDT
Subject: The Shma

>>I have asked the following question to some friends and have received a
>different answer from each one:
>Why do we cover our eyes while saying the "Shma"?
>Any thoughts??  Thanks!!!

I think I was tought in school, but I don't remeber exactely, to keep our
concentration. According to this, closing your eyes is good enough, and
that is what some people do.

Mordy Gross

From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The Shma

We put our hands before our eyes so as to remember to see our hands, 
which represent our personal portion of HaShem's Will, in our mind's 

We also wear Tefillin while we say the Shma.

Tefillin binds our arm (our strength in the world) to our hand (our 
conscious personal will) to our heart (our feeling center) to our mind 
(where we can reflect on - or "see" -  our actions.)  

Our arm and hand are the extension of our spinal column into the world.
Our hand expresses our personal will in the world. We point and act with 
our hand.  According to some teachings, our hands are the extension of 
our heart center (chakra.)
Our heart provides the energy to power our spine-arm-hand and thus to 
express our personal will. 

We can always see our hands and what is in our hands in our mind's eye. 
Thus we can plan for and reflect on the actions of our hands by what we 
see in our mind's eye.  Our gestures betray our feelings.  Our feelings 
are betrayed by our gestures.  There is no idolatry of the form of hands 
here.  The image of a gesture is only a memory device for recovering the 
feeling.  (The feeling is the _smell_ of the action - but that's another 

The opening lines of the Shma tell us that HaShem and Elokim are Echod - 
Exquisitely Unique and Singular.  If we make an equation of this 
relationship, HaShem-Elokim=Echod, we obtain the hyperbolic spiral - 
which (leaving out the details) explicitly defines the geometric shape 
of a model hand in the form of a Tefillin Strap bound on the hand.  When 
different gestures are made while wearing this Tefillin Hand, different 
Hebrew letters are seen.  The natural meaning of the gesture IS the name 
of the letter that the Tefillin strap displays.  Spelling Hebrew words 
with these gestures immediately demonstrates their meaning to someone 
watching (for simple examples.)

Check the m-j archives and http://www.meru.org for more info.



End of Volume 24 Issue 87