Volume 24 Number 91
                       Produced: Wed Sep 11  8:19:23 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Blood Donation and other issues
         [Joseph P. Wetstein]
Correct Sepharadi pronunciation
         [John Abayahou Dayan]
Haftorah of Shabbat Chazon
         [Saul Mashbaum]
Haphtorah Chazon
         [Binyomin Segal]
Labor Strikes
         [Yitzchak Kasdan]
Making a Shofar
         [Mordechai Gross]
Nahem prayer and Jerusalem
         [Herman Geoffrey]
Preparing to say the Amidah
         [R. Maryles]
Shabbat Chazon
         [Perry Zamek]
Shabbos Chazon
         [Gershon Dubin]
Tish'a B'Av as a Yom Tov
         [Israel Rosenfeld]
Tisha Ba-Av
         [Rick Turkel]
New list - DOAR
         [Alon Klamkin]


From: Joseph P. Wetstein <jpw@...>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:40:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Blood Donation and other issues

I am a regular blood donor. I have donated, over my not-so-many years,
GALLONS of blood to the Red Cross (and even to the Red Magen David,
during my last trip to Israel). In addition, I also am on the list with
Walter Reed for other blood product donation (4 hours hooked to a
machine to save someone's life seems worth it to me). When I was in
yeshiva, my Rosh HaYeshiva, Reb Shmuel Kamanetsky, shelita, was always
one of the first to donate from the community.

Recently a child in my parent's neighborhood became ill, and the frum
community is in a search for A+ blood (actually, they need platelets)
and announcing that people should donate if they are a match, etc. So,
people are going to find out if they are a match for that type, and then
are considering donation. It seems that for those people who are not a
match, they will defer themselves.

If you are healthy, use such sad stories of sick children as a REMINDER
to donate, regardless of your blood type. Just because you aren't a
match for one, doesn't mean you can't assist someone else who may need
it. You may have the opportunity to help someone else as well. And you
can hope, bizchus zeh, that you and your family will never have the need
to receive such services in return.

Yossi Wetstein
B+, HLA typed.


From: <j18dayan@...> (John Abayahou Dayan)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 96 11:49:45 BST
Subject: Correct Sepharadi pronunciation 

Contrary to common perception may I respectfully point out that Correct 
Sepharadi Pronunciation is not the that of modern day Evrit.
Please find below a list of some letters and vowels in the correct Sepharadi 
/ Classical Hebrew pronunciation:
Gimel with Dagesh: "g" as in "goat".
Gimel Without Dagesh: "gr" is almost like guttural "r".
Daledh: With Dagesh: "d" as in "door".
Daledh without Dagesh: "dh" as in "th" of "the"; please note how according 
to the Shulchan Aruch one is to pronounce Daledh of "Echadh" of Shema 
Waw (vav): "w" as in "wall".
Cheth: is like the "ch" of Scots "loch".
T`eth (tes): A dull "t" with the tongue against the palate.
Qof (kof): "q" like the cawing of a crow.
Tav ie with Dagesh: "t" as in "top".
Thav (sav) ie without Dagesh: "th" as in "thank".

And for Vowles -please note the Qames (kamets)-
Pathach: "a" as in "had".
Sere: "e" as in "they"; I have only heard a few Sepharadim make this 
Qames (kamets): "A" as in "yArd".  Persian Jews pronounce Qmes almost in an 
identical manner to that of Angelo Ashknenaz as described. This I can say 
with certainty since I am Persian and regularly pray in a prominent 
Ashkenazi Shull!!
Qames - Katan: "o" as in "bold"
If there are Sepharadim out there who disagree with me please next time 
listen very carefully to your grandparents and / or elderly gentlemen in 
particular of Iraqi origin who are not influenced by modern day Hebrew.

Best Regards
John Abayahou Dayan [Sepharadi Tahor] 


From: <mshalom@...> (Saul Mashbaum)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:57:33 EDT
Subject: Haftorah of Shabbat Chazon

In Mail-Jewish Volume 24 Number 74, Alan Rubin asks for sources on
the custom of reading the haftorah of Shabbat Chazzon in the mournful
tune of Eicha. 

This custom is cited by the Magen Avraham in Orach Chayyim 282:5 as 
the standard practice. So much so that someone who does not know how 
to lain the haftorah with the mournful tune has the halachic status 
of someone who does not know how to lain the haftorah. The Mishna Brura 
cites this opinion.


In "Nefesh Harav", his book about Rabbi Yosef Dov Halevi Soloveichik zt"l
(the Rov), Rabbi Hershel Schachter, shlita, one of the Rov's most 
outstanding talmidim, relates the following incident:

Rav Schachter was once with the Rov in a small resort community on Shabbat 
Chazzon, and was the chazzan for Kabbalat Shabbat. As is customary in 
many communities, he sang L'cha Dodi to the mournful melody of "Eli Tzion". 
The congregants in this small minyan were for the most part unlearned,
and many did not recognize the melody.  The Rov sang along and helped 
get them on the right track. From this Rav Schachter deduces that the 
Rov did not deem using a Tisha B'av melody on Shabbat Chazzon inappropriate.
See page 197 in "Nefesh Harav".

Rav Schachter heard that the Rov once said that Brisk and other places,
the custom was to sing the mournful section of the mussaf of Yom Tov,
which recalls that the Beit Hamikdash has been destroyed, to the melody 
of "Eli Tzion". This despite the fact that Yom Tov is even stricter
than Shabbat regarding refraining from aveilut.

Saul Mashbaum


From: <bsegal@...> (Binyomin Segal)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 02:08:33 -0500
Subject: Haphtorah Chazon

Alan Rubin asked:
 * It is the custom in my synagogue to read the maftir on the Shabbos before
 * 9th Ab using the tune for Echah.  I have always felt that this custom was
 * in error and that it was wrong to use a tune of mourning on Shabbos.  I
 * would be interested in any educated opinions.

i believe the custom is widespread.

the debate over the character of shabbos chazon is a long standing one. i
believe you will find that the mishna brura brings a debate on the issue.

i _believe_ that the gra was of the opinion that that shabbos one _DID_
show mourning - as part of the 9 days.

the mishna brura makes it clear that this is not our custom - but i think
it isnt quite so black & white - as the eichah tune would suggest



From: <IKasdan189@...> (Yitzchak Kasdan)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:45:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Labor Strikes

Additional sources re: labor strikes --

Rabbi Bleich discusses strikes in his "Contemporary Halakhic Problems"
Volumes I (at pps. 186-89), II (at pps. 111-13) and III (at pps. 18-25). 


From: <mordy_gross@...> (Mordechai Gross)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 01:01:55 EDT
Subject: Making a Shofar

>Hi, I am going to have a program for making a Shofar fort Rosh Hashana,
>I have a problem, I would like to know, how can I bend the Shofar to
>the right shape, if anyone knows the technic how to do it, please let
>me know as soon as possible,

I think boiling the shofar makes it flexible. You must Kasher the pot if
the Shofar came from a not Shechted animal.

Mordy Gross


From: Herman Geoffrey <Herman@...>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 96 14:39:00 PDT
Subject: Re: Nahem prayer and Jerusalem

The "mahzor" for Tisha BeAv produced in Britain (under the auspices of the
United Synagogue, I think) also contains an alternative version of the Nahem
prayer in the edition that was updated following the Six Day War. It omits
the reference to the city being  desolate and in ruins, moves some of it into
the past tense. Well done (British) United Synagogue for responding to
    Geoffrey Herman


From: <Harrymaryl@...> (R. Maryles)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:10:20 -0400
Subject: Preparing to say the Amidah

What is the proper method for preparing to say the amidah?  I was having
this discussion with a friend and there was a difference of opinion as
to why we take three steps back and then three steps forward.  In
addition, is it true that the words "Hashem Sifasai Tiftach..." are to
be said after one takes the six prepatory steps?  If you reply to this
letter, please quote your sources.

R. Maryles


From: Perry Zamek <jerusalem@...>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 00:25:33 +0300
Subject: Shabbat Chazon

Alan Rubin, in mj (v24n74), asked about the custom of reading the Haftara in
the tune of Eicha. Similar questions are raised about singing Lecha Dodi to
the tune of Eli Tzion.

I would like to respond to Alan's question by referring to a Dvar Torah I
heard on Shabbat Chazon from Rabbi Chaim Brovender, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivat
Hamivtar in Efrat (I hope I get this right!).

Rav Brovender contrasted the opinions of the REMA and the GRA in respect of
wearing clean clothes on Shabbat Chazon. He asked us to imagine watching the
two communities, Cracow (where the REMA lived) and Vilna (the GRA's city),
on a television showing them in a split screen. In Cracow, people are going
to shule in their weekday clothes, while in Vilna, on the same Shabbat
Chazon, they are wearing clean clothes in honour of Shabbat. Rav Brovender
compared this to the difference between Moshe and Aharon, Moshe representing
the strict, here-and-now, undertsanding of a situation, while Aharon was
able to see the potential, positive, resolution of that situation. So, too,
the Halacha in Cracow was based on "Now it's a period of mourning", while in
Vilna the view was "Ultimately it will be Shabbat, and the present exile
will end."

If I were to summarize the ideas further, what we have is a dialectic
peculiar to Shabbat Chazon -- on the one hand, it is Shabbat, and on the
other, it is the Shabbat that leads us to Tisha B'Av (in many cases, it is
the day immediately prior to the fast). Reading the Haftara to the tune of
Eicha is a reminder of that dialectic.

May we, in this period of Seven Haftarot of Consolation, witness the
consalation of Zion and Jerusalem.

Perry Zamek   | A Jew should hold his head high. 
Peretz ben    | "Even in poverty a Hebrew is a prince... 
Avraham       |       Crowned with David's Crown" -- Jabotinsky


From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 22:59:00 -0400
Subject: Shabbos Chazon

> It is the custom in my synagogue to read the maftir on the Shabbos
> before  9th Ab using the tune for Echah.  I have always felt that this
> custom was  in error and that it was wrong to use a tune of mourning on
> Shabbos.  I  would be interested in any educated opinions.

	The custom is a very ancient one.  The exact balance to strike
on Shabbos Chazon between mourning and treating it as a regular Shabbos
has been a source of differences of halachic opinion and custom.
Differences exist as to wearing regular Shabbos clothes, washing in
honor of the Shabbos, tunes in different parts of the davening, etc.
This custom in particular, however, is universal, at least among
<gershon.dubin@...>        |


From: <iir@...> (Israel Rosenfeld)
Date: Thu,  8 Aug 96 20:17 +0200
Subject: Re: Tish'a B'Av as a Yom Tov

>From: <elasson@...> (Elliot D. Lasson)
>Someone told me that there was a time (or year) in Jewish history when
>Tish'a B'Av was a Yom Tov.  This would have been after the destruction
>of the First Beis HaMikdash.  Can anyone verify this, or offer a source.
>[I believe that there is a Gemara that in the future Tish'a B'Av will
>become a Yom Tov, not that it was in the past. I'm sure that other
>members of the list will let us know the proper sources. Mod.]

I quote: B. Rosh Hashanah 18b -
Rav Chana the son of Bizna said in the name of Rav Shimon Hisda,
    the Torah says (Zechariah 8:19) -
So says Hashem, the fast of the fourth, and the fast of the fifth,
    and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth,
    will be for the house of Judah for joy and for happiness.
- He calls them 'fast' and he calls them 'for joy and for happiness';
    when there is peace, there is 'for joy and for happiness',
    when no peace, there is 'fast'.

This goes for the period of the Second Temple also.

Soon and in our days!
Behatzlacha rabba,


From: <rturkel@...> (Rick Turkel)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 11:05:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Tisha Ba-Av

Eli Turkel <turkel@...> wrote:

>    I was in Norfolk, VA over Tisha ba-av and heard 2 comments from the
>rabbi that is relevant to some recent discussions.
>1. In the 13 principles at the end of the prayers most people say
>   "be ve-at ha-masheach be-kal yom she-yavoh"
>    However, it is known that the Messiah can not come on every day of
>    the year for example shabbat, fridays etc.  Instead there should be
>    a pause before she-yavoh.  Thus we wait each day that the Messiah
>    should come, not necessarily today but we still wait in anticipation

It seems to me (and I'm _not_ a rabbi) that the pause should be before
"bekhol yom," on the grounds that "bekhol yom sheyavo" literally means
"on any day that he will come."  With the pause before "sheyavo" it
comes out exactly the way the rabbi in question says it shouldn't -
"... in the coming of the Mashiach every day, may He come."  Clearly
He can't come on certain days, nor can he come more than once!

Just my NIS 0.02-worth.  Shabbat shalom.

Rick Turkel         (___  _____  _  _  _  _  __     _  ___   _   _  _  ___
<rturkel@...>)oh.us|   |  \  )  |/  \     |    |   |   \__)    |
<rturkel@...>        /      |  _| __)/   | ___)    | ___|_  |  _(  \    |
Rich or poor, it's good to have money.  Ko rano rani | u jamu pada.


From: Alon Klamkin <alonk@...>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:10:13 +0300
Subject: New list - DOAR

A new list in Hebrew (Hebrew letters) called DOAR  has been started.

New members are welcome. You must have Hebrew fonts installed.

The address for signing up is:


just write "subscribe DOAR <your name>" in the message box


End of Volume 24 Issue 91