Volume 25 Number 03
                       Produced: Thu Sep 26 23:13:06 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Cohanim/Arlington Nat'l Cemetery
         [Barry S. Bank]
Creation Ex Nihilo
         [David Charlap]
Gender Relations and Creation
         [Michael and Abby Pitkowsky]
Heter for Peyot
         [Mordechai Gross]
Integrity of Orthodox Lawyers
         [Moshe J. Bernstein]
Kaddisheinu Bemitzvotecha in Amidah for Musaf on Shabbat
         [Israel Pickholtz]
King David and Batsheva
         [Joe Goldman]
Kol Sason v'Kol Simcha....
         [Iris C. Engelson]
Kosher Queries (5)
         [Stephen Phillips, David Charlap, Yehuda Poch, Mordechai Gross,
Arlene Mathes-Schaf]
Ledavid Hashem Ori in Mincha of Yom Kipur
         [Dov Samet]


From: Barry S. Bank <bt492@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:30:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cohanim/Arlington Nat'l Cemetery

Does anyone know if a cohen can use the tourist trams in Arlington
National Cemetery?  Or if there are areas in the Cemetery where a cohen
*can* enter?



From: David Charlap <david@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:46:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Creation Ex Nihilo

Meylekh Viswanath <viswanat@...> writes:
>I recently read in B. Netanyahu's book on the Abravanel, that the notion
>of creation ex nihilo was taken from the Christians, or at the very
>least, the development of the idea in Jewish thought was heavily
>influenced by Christian thought.  Apparently, there are no Jewish
>sources before Origen and other Christians who insisted on this idea.

What do you mean "no Jewish sources"?  How about the Torah itself?

The entire first chapter of Bereshit (Genesis) describes in detail how
God created the universe from "tohu va'vohu" (void and nothingness).

I don't understand why Mr. Netanyahu feels that the Torah is not a
"Jewish source" on this subject.

He should also realize that the Christians got their idea from their
bible's account of Genesis, which is (in most respects) a translation of


From: Michael and Abby Pitkowsky <pitab@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 12:14:02 PDT
Subject: Gender Relations and Creation

I feel that many of the recent prohibitions about interraction between
the sexes are not required by halachah.  Recently there was a request
for El Al to provide flights with only male attendants and no female
stewardesses.  While I am all for satisfying the customer, is this
really required by halacha?  There are numerous prohibitions in the
Shulhan Aruch which have been interpretted away by most of the religious
world such as that against women teaching young children because of
their fathers who would come to pick them up and single men, divorced
men and widowers from teaching children because of their mothers who
would come to pick them up (Even HaEzer 22:20).  There are also
important terms such as derech hibba[by way of affection], derech
taavah[by way of desire] and lesham hanaah [for pleasure] which many
halachists see as necessary components in order for there to be a
prohibition of interraction (see Rama on Even HaEzer 21:5 where he even
permits getting a rub down from non-Jewish women if it is done at the
public bath and not in yihud [private]; and Rambam Laws of Forbidden
Relations 21:1-2, sources from a teshuvah of R. Hayyim Weiner).  Rav
Moshe Feinstein also permitted riding the subway and bus even if a man
had to touch up against a women because it was not derech taavah
vehibbah [by way of desire and affection] (IM Even HaEzer II:14).  He
who wants to be strict should do whatever he wants, but those who aren't
should not feel as if they are not acting in accordance with halacha.

>I heard from a learned friend, that not all rishonim hold with creation
>ex nihilo, yesh me ayin.  Does anybody have any idea who might hold
>against creation ex nihilo?
 >What might be a possible alternative acceptable Jewish belief (whether
>or not anybody holds like it; i.e. a belief that does not violate other
>major Jewish beliefs, like hashem ekhod).  And does anybody know of a
>Jewish source BCE?

There is a Jewish non-canonical source from the Apocryphical book The
Wisdom of Solomon where it states "For thy all-powerful hand, which
created the world out of formless matter "(11:17).  See _The Faith of
Judaism_ by Isidore Epstein, chapter 9 for a good discussion of the

Name: Michael Menahem and Abby Pitkowsky
E-mail: <pitab@...>
WWW:  http://www.netvision.net.il/php/pitab/


From: <mordy_gross@...> (Mordechai Gross)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:46:27 EDT
Subject: Heter for Peyot

>My Chumash (_Living_Torah_  trans. by Reb Aryeh Kaplan z"l), cites 
>the Yad as saying that the prohibition against removing the peyot 
>applies only to have them removed with a razor (Avodat Kochavim 
>12:6, I think).

This only applies to Payos Hazaken, of the beard. As to those of the
head, the Rambam's Shitoh is that there must be 6 or 60 [differant
prints] hairs that are K'Dei Achiza, able to be grasped, between the top
of the ear and the upper jaw bone. The Shulchan Aruch argues, and writes
to the bottom of the ear.
Mordy Gross


From: Moshe J. Bernstein <mjbrnstn@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:26:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Integrity of Orthodox Lawyers

regarding "anonymous"' question on the integrity of orthodox lawyers, i
recommend the just-published volume by my good friend and mail-jewish
correspondent Rabbi Michael Broyde, "The Pursuit of Justice" which deals
with a variety of halakhic issues involved in the practice of secular
law.  moshe bernstein


From: Israel Pickholtz <p2o5rock@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:07:22 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Kaddisheinu Bemitzvotecha in Amidah for Musaf on Shabbat

Does anyone know why and when the words "Kaddisheinu
bemitzvotecha" were removed from the Amidah for Musaf on Shabbat
Rosh Hodesh?  (I know that the Sephardim include the words, as
do a very few Ashkenaz sidurim.)

Israel Pickholtz


From: <joe.goldman@...> (Joe Goldman)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:48:10 -0400
Subject: King David and Batsheva

If Russel Hendel made ANY mistake in reference to the incident with King
David and Batsheva, it's that he called a "sin" in the first place.  Let
us bear in mind two statements of the Gemara:

1.  Lo haya Dovid (Hamelech) ra'uy l'oto ma'ase - King David was not
*fit* for that act.  Commentators explain the statement based on the
verse in T'hillim (Psalms) - Libi chalal b'kirbi - my heart is void (a
corpse) within me - referring to the fact that King David was able to
"slaughter" his evil inclination (including impetuousness).  The Gemara
goes on to explain his actions.  Kabbalists go even further.

2.  Kol ha'omer Dovid (Hamelech) chata, eino ela to'eh - ***WHOEVER*** 
says that King David sinned is only mistaken.  Enough said.

G'mar chasima tova to all,



From: <iris@...> (Iris C. Engelson)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 12:33 EDT
Subject: Kol Sason v'Kol Simcha....

As a longtime lurker on mail.jewish, I'd like to delurk just long enough
to share the happy news of my recent engagement to Hyman Rosen and to
publically acknowledge our incalculable debt to our good friends Sam
Saal (well-known to mail.jewish readers) and Zvi Lando who conspired
with each other to arrange our meeting.

Hy and I first met on Erev Rosh Chodesh Av and by Tisha B'Av (a mere
nine days later), I was commenting to my friends how inappropriately
upbeat my mood seemed to be at the Aichah reading.  Within a week after
that, we both knew with utter certainty that we had met our basherts.

We told our families the news over Labor Day weekend and made the
official public announcement at a break-fast Motzai Yom Kippur.  Hy and
I are both looking forward to enjoying an especially sweet new year
together and wish the same to our friends and family and the entire
mail.jewish community.

Long lost friends who happen to read this are encouraged to write to us
at <iris@...> and hymie@jyacc.com and to spread the news.

Iris Engelson



From: <stephenp@...> (Stephen Phillips)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 15:13 BST-1
Subject: Re: Kosher Queries

> From: Marc Sacks <Marc_Sacks/Lightbridge*<LIGHTBRIDGE@...>
> 1.  I've always had the impression that goats are kosher, but I've never
> seen goat meat in kosher butcher shops.  Am I wrong about goats' kosher
> status, or is it just that American Jews don't like them?  (Goat is hard
> to find in supermarkets as well, though a hallal butcher shop near me
> has it.  I know Muslim law is not the same as Jewish, but it does seem
> that since kohanim used to sacrifice goats, we should be able to eat
> them.)

Kosher goats cheese from Israel is widely available in kosher shops here 
in London, and I think you can also get kosher goats milk. 

Chag Same'ach.

Stephen Phillips.

From: David Charlap <david@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:49:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kosher Queries

I would assume it's just because people here don't like them.  As you
said, goats were sacrificed in the Temple.  Only kosher animals were
sacrificed, so based on that alone, they must be kosher.  Perhaps
someone outside the US knows of a kosher store that sells goat meat?

>2.  All I know about the kashruth of birds is that they not be
>carnivores, i.e.  we can eat chickens but not hawks.  I'm wondering
>whether the wingless birds now becoming available (emus, rheas, and
>ostriches) can be kosher, assuming they're raised and slaughtered

This is a guess, but I think they should be.

D'oraita (according to the written Torah), the kashrut status of birds
is rather straightforward.  There is a list of birds which are
forbidden, and everything else is permitted.

The rabbis decided (quite rightly, IMO) that not everybody can recognize
all of these birds.  (Especially true today.  Translators do not all
translate the words the same, so we obviously don't know exactly what
they are.)  So they made a general rule that forbids all birds of prey -
this includes all the birds on the list and makes it easy to always
determine if a particular bird is OK.

With respect to ostriches, I think some don't permit them.  I seem to
remember one Torah-translator actually translating one of the forbidden
birds to "ostrich" (but I may just be remembering wrong).

Depending on your community, you may still not be allowed to eat one of
these birds.  For instance, many chassidim will not eat turkey, because
it was unknown in Europe and in Israel.  Even though it meets all the
rabbinic qualifications for a kosher bird, they choose to not take any

>3.  I've heard mixed opinions on whether swordfish is kosher.  If it's
>not, why not?

The problem here is that a kosher fish must have scales and gills.  A
swordfish loses its scales sometime during its life cycle.  Some hold
that because it once had scales, it's kosher.  Some hold that because it
doesn't have them all its life, it's not.

This is definitely a case of ask your local rabbi.

From: Yehuda Poch <yehuda@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:51:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Kosher Queries

In response to Mark Sacks questions re goats:

Goats are indeed kosher, though I like you have never seen goat meat in
a kosher establishment.  The rules for kosher animals are that they must
have split hooves and they must chew their cud.  Goats fall into this
category.  Also, you are correct in assuming that only kosher animals
may be used for korbanos.  Thus, the use of the goat in such services
also means that they are kosher (though in actuality it is the other way

>2.  All I know about the kashruth of birds is that they not be
>carnivores, i.e.  we can eat chickens but not hawks.  I'm wondering
>whether the wingless birds now becoming available (emus, rheas, and
>ostriches) can be kosher, assuming they're raised and slaughtered

This is an interesting question.  Though the definition of carnivores is
up for dispute.  For instance, is a bird that eats insects a carnivore?
The rule of thumb I was taught for birds is that they not be birds of
prey, meaning hunting birds.  In this, Hawks are unkosher.  Emus and
Rheas would be kosher (I think).  Ostriches I am not sure of, but I
would also think they would be kosher as well.

>3.  I've heard mixed opinions on whether swordfish is kosher.  If it's
>not, why not?

Another interesting one.  If memory serves, swordfish have fins and
scales, and would therefore be kosher.  I'd be interested to hear the
dissenting opinion to this.

[I'm pretty sure that nearly all major Poskim hold swordfish to be
non-kosher. The issue as mentioned by others is that the scales of the
sordfish is of a different variaty than other fish and is not considered
to what is required by Halacha. MOd.]
Disclaimer:  I am neither a rabbi nor a mashgiach.  The opinions above are
solely my own, and should not be construed as halachic decisions.

Yehuda Poch

From: <mordy_gross@...> (Mordechai Gross)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:46:27 EDT
Subject: Kosher Queries

Goats are kosher. Anything that is not kosher can't be brought as a

Another limitation for birds are a claw in the back of their feet. They
also need a crop [Adams apple].
Mordy Gross

From: Arlene Mathes-Schaf <ajms@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:27:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher Queries

1. Goats are kosher.
2. Vayikrah 11:16 Ostriches and the like are not kosher.
3. Swordfish is not held to be kosher by Orthodox standards. 

Arlene Mathes-Scharf    | 
<ajms@...>        | The Internet's Premier Independent Kashrut
http://www.kashrut.com/ |             Information Source


From: Dov Samet <SAMET@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 16:36:17 IST
Subject: Ledavid Hashem Ori in Mincha of Yom Kipur

Looking at several Machzorim, I found that except for one of them,
Tehilat Hashem - Lubavitch, all others do not have Ledavid Hashem Ori
Veyishi in Mincha of Yom Kipur. In my schul they say it, on Yom Kipur,
only once. Does anyone know a documented reason?


End of Volume 25 Issue 3