Volume 25 Number 27
                       Produced: Wed Nov 27 21:06:32 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

(1) Mi sheBeirach and (2) Bais Shammai
         [Sheldon Meth]
A novel topic, indeed, for Mail Jewish: Shtreimels!
         [Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer]
Agunah lists?
Beis Shammai
         [Daniel Eidensohn]
Canned Cranberries
         [Avi Bloch]
Having a Share in the World to Come
         [Al Silberman]
Jewish Calendar algorithm
         [Joseph Greenberg]
Mi Sheberach for the Sick
         [Malcolm Greenberg]
Moses Grave :  Codes : The Torah
         [Russell Hendel]
Origin of the Word "Daven"
         [Liz Muschel]
Purim in November?
         [Sam Saal]
Seven Nations
         [Israel Caspi]


From: Sheldon Meth <Sheldon_Meth@...>
Date: 27 Nov 1996 10:12:23 -0400
Subject: (1) Mi sheBeirach and (2) Bais Shammai

In v25n25, Yisroel Medad asks:

"Has any one out there done any research or knows of recent responsa
about whether it [Mi sheBeirach for the sick] must be said while the
sefer torah is open or can it be said when the sefer is being rolled up?
what is the degree of illness for which one says the prayer?  must the
name be said or can a generalized prayer be made without specific

In our Shul, the Gabbai says the Mi sheBeirach after the second berachah
of the sixth Aliyah on Shabbos, after the first on Monday, Thursday, and
Rosh Chodesh, and after the fifth on Yom Tov.  There is a list he
maintains, and he also takes names from people who line up.  The Mi
sheBeirach takes several minutes.  I have heard few complaints about
this structure.  As to the degree of illness required to be on the list,
no questions are asked - adam yodei'ah moras nafsho - a person knows the
bitterness of his heart.  One person's headache is another person's need
to be on the list - who are we to make a judgement in this matter?

In the same issue, Jamie Leiba asks:

"Does anyone know the source for why we will follow Bais Shammai after
Moshiach ?"

I don't know the specific source, but I once heard an explanation on a
Daf Yomi tape, by Rabbi Fischel Shechter of Yeshiva Torah Voda'as: Beis
Hillel represents Middas haRachamim [Attribute of Mercy] and Beis
Shammai represents Middas haDin [Attribute of Justice].  This also
explains why (usually) Beis Hillel is meikel [lenient], while Beis
Shammai is machmir [stringent].  In this world, G-d applies Middas
Rachamim in His relations with us; in the Next World, when bechira [free
will] will be removed, G-d will apply Middas haDin.


From: <sbechhof@...> (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:36:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: A novel topic, indeed, for Mail Jewish: Shtreimels!

I deleted some stuff from the following message, leaving just the
interesting point worth discussing...

> From: <karena@...> (Chaya Liba Kates)
> Subject: Re: Mazel Tov and Shtrymloch

> might just believe it too.  Shtrymloch last.  My chussin's father's
> shtrymal has had the inside redone once since he first started wearing
> one, over twenty years ago... but besides that it is the same shtrymal.
> He says the key to keeping them nice is putting it away in the shtrymal
> box properly.  I hope so!  They are not as expensive as I was lead to
> believe, and they last much longer than a hat, in most cases.  My

After wishes of Mazal Tov, I would like to point out the (to me at
least) fascinating tidbit of Halachic trivia that I learnt from Shteimel
weares (of which I am *NOT* one), that to return the shtreimel to its
box on Shabbos is forbidden. Since the box is specifically intended to
maintain & restore the shtreimel's shape, it is a derivative of "mesaken
manah" (fixing) to place the shtreimel back in the box on Shabbos!

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer


From: Anonymous
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:48:16 EST
Subject: Agunah lists?

Does anyone know if there are lists kept of men, (and women) who have
either not given or accepted Gets?  I am trying to get my GET (which is
why I am posting anonymously) and have been told that my husband has
been "picking up girls".  He tells them that he is divorced !!
	 While I would welcome his remarriage (as it would mean that I
would get the GET) I think that whoever he dates should know that I do
not have a GET yet.  The Jewish community is larger than we would like
to think.  Such a list would protect many and might pressure men to give
GETs sooner rather than latter.



From: Daniel Eidensohn <yadmoshe@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:35:17 -0800
Subject: Beis Shammai

>From: Jamie Leiba <leiba@...>

>Does anyone know the source for why we will follow Bais Shammai after 
>Moshiach ?

The source is from the Arizal. The most direct source is from the
Vayakel Moshe who is quoted in the classic Seder HaDoros vol II page 350
under the entry for Shammai. He says "In the future the Halacha will be
like Beis Shammai and Rav Shimon Bar Yochai (VaYakel Moshe page 42b and
54a)" The Vayakel Moshe ascribes this assertion to the Arizal.

	The Michtav M'Eliyahu in his discussion of the nature of the
disputes found in Chazal (Volume III page 353) also explains that since
Shammai is the attribute of Din it will be appropriate to follow the
Halacha based on the attribute of Din.

	This is also related to the question of the nature of Halacha in
the time of Moshiach. There is a discussion of the classic sources for
this in Otzros Acharis HaYomim (Hebrew) Chaper 12 where he discusses the
gemora (Nida 61b).

	This is also related to the issue of the status of the Arizal in
Halacha. [If anyone is interested they can contact me directly for


From: <RabbiI@...> (P.Idstein)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:33:34 -0500
Subject: Canned Cranberries

 Just a Quick question, that maybe someone can help me with.Can one buy
canned cranberries for example from Ocean Spray after all cranberries
cannot be eaten raw therefore someone is cooking them more than likely a
Goy and they are (I would think) Oleh Al Shulchan Melochim?
 Is it safe to assume that the typical Hasgochos are Makpid on their
Mashgiach lighting the fires? If anyone could shed some light on this
topic I'd appreciate it.


From: <avi@...> (Avi Bloch)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 08:51:39 IST
Subject: Cheeses

Could someone tell me what makes non-kosher cheeses not kosher? I need
this info for my rabbi who needs to pasken a question about eating at
someone's house where non-kosher cheeses are used.

Avi Bloch


From: <asilberman@...> (Al Silberman)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:31:34 -0500
Subject: Having a Share in the World to Come

In MJ v25n23 <CHIHAL@...> (Yeshaya Halevi) wrote:

> Much discussion has centered around who does and who doesn't have
> a share in Olam Haba (the World to Come).  What I'd like to know is, why
> is the language used to describe one's life in Olam Haba "a share?"  Why
> don't the original sources just say, "The following types of people
> won't live in the World to Come", or maybe "The following types of
> people won't be in the World to Come?"
> Perhaps the meaning of all this is that those who don't believe
> or do certain things lose a portion/share in Olam Haba, but ONLY a
> portion of what could be theirs.  The rest -- the other portion/share --
> is theirs, as it says, "All Israel has a share in the World to Come."

To which <mnavon@...> (Mois Navon) replied in MJ v25n24:

> This is certainly NOT the reading in the Nefesh HaHayim, wherein Rav
>Hayim MiVolozhin > states explicitly on the verse "Kol Yisrael Yesh Lahem
>Helek LE'olam Haba" - LE'olam  > Haba NOT BE'olam haba!  (i.e. "TO" the
>world to come NOT "IN" the world to come).  He > explains this grammatical
>nuance to imply that everyone has the capacity to earn for  > themselves a
>helek, but it is by no means one's birth right to automatically receive a
>> helek IN the world to come.

I did not look in the Nefesh HaHayim but the Margoliyos Hayam in the
beginning of Perek Chelek brings down the Nefesh HaHayim. My
interpretation of it has a different nuance than the one brought down in
the above quote:

People by performing Mitzvos create for themselves a portion to be
available to them when they get to Olam Haba. The portion is created by
the performance of the Mitzva. Thus, someone who does not create his
portion in this world will, naturally, not have one available in the
world to come.  That is why it does not say that everyone has a portion
"IN" the world to come. The world to come does not have any of its own
portions. The Mishna says that all Jews create for themselves a portion
to be available to them "Leolam Haba". The categories of people
enumerated, by the nature of their behavior, do not create for
themselves a portion to be available to themselves later.


From: Joseph Greenberg <jjg@...>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:34:00
Subject: Jewish Calendar algorithm

I know this has been addressed before, but the specifics of
implementation apparently have not. Does anyone have access to Visual
Basic code that would calculate a Hebrew date, given the english date?
Either a formulaic approach or a tabular (look-up table) approach
would be acceptable, as long as it would work for a span of the last
100 years through the next 100 (at least). I've seen much of the
discussion (and pursued on my own) some of the factors that are
involved in doing this, and unfortunately I haven't seen any "real"
code that will do this. I'd even be interested in somebody's
commercially available function(s) or vbx/ocx.

Joseph J. Greenberg
Human Synergistics, Inc.
Plymouth, MI


From: Malcolm Greenberg <Maljay@...>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:36:47 -0500
Subject: Mi Sheberach for the Sick

> Having just been elected to our synagogue board, one of the questions we
> are dealing with is the prayer for the sick.  Some think it is getting
> out of hand and becoming a "tircha", a bother.  Has any one out there
> done any research or knows of recent responsa about whether it must be
> said while the sefer torah is open or can it be said when the sefer is
> being rolled up?  what is the degree of illness for which one says the
> prayer?  must the name be said or can a generalized prayer be made
> without specific references?
> Yisrael Medad


 In our shul, Congregation Etz Ahaim, in Highland Park, NJ, being
Sephardic, we usually use a standing torah. Regardless, we say a
mishabayruch for deceased men, deceased women, sick men, and sick
woman.. the whole process may take 15 minutes so in the grand scheme of
things it certainly isn't a tirchaby any means :-) Our torah is open
when we say it, but I really don't think that matters, as much as having
the torah present w/ a minyan for the mishabayrach saying. What degree ?
Whatever each individual thinks, i.e.  hospitalized, ill at home, etc. -
Names are generally said, english and/or hebrew, and I know plenty of
people who just say a person's name quietly during this time. Any other
questions, I would be glad to help out -

Malcolm Greenberg
Congregation Etz Ahaim, Highland Park, NJ 


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:28:48 -0500
Subject: Moses Grave :  Codes : The Torah

Mottel Gutnick (Vol 25, #23) asks if it is possible that real Jewish
Mystics would seek Moses' grave.

I would like to mention a similar question: Would a real scientist seek
to find "hidden words" in periodic letters of the Torah (as is the
custom these days).

Both these questions have the same answer:

Moses left us a Book that clearly and lucidly solves all moral problems
and that has totally transformed human history more than any other book.

A true mystic and scientist would seek to find the rich meaning in this
Book, the Torah.

Unfortunately the meanings of this book are sometimes more deeply hidden
than graves ; these meanings might even elude the search capacities of
the fastest computers.

Moses assured us that this meaning does EXIST and if found will give us
"life".  The law books also assure us that the CROWN of Torah is waiting
to be discovered by anyone who wants to.

And if anything will attract Tourists it is the wit and charm of simple
religious Sages.

So...Let us approach the Israeli and Lebanon governments and ask for
support in finding Moses` legacy!

Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d., ASA, rhendel @ mcs drexel edu


From: <LMuschel@...> (Liz Muschel)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:31:09 -0500
Subject: Origin of the Word "Daven"

Does anyone know the origin of the word "daven"?

Liz Muschel


From: Sam Saal <saal@...>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 00:05:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Purim in November?

It's not even Chanukah, but I'm already thinking ahead to Purim.

In past years, people have helped me write wonderful Purim Spiels.
These group efforts lead to "The Halacha of M&Ms," "The Ultimate Egg
Cream," and "Why Hamentash Have Four Corners." In each case, group
effort lead to something far better than I could have done alone.

I'd like to put together a group of people interested in doing the next
Purim Spiel. The theme is, of course, the Halacha of the Internet and
the medium will be a web page.

If you are interested in contributing, please send me mail and I'll
organize the group for the next Spiel.

Sam Saal      <saal@...>
Vayiphtach HaShem et Pea haAtone


From: Israel Caspi <icaspi@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27 06:17:14 1996
Subject: Seven Nations

B'nai Yisrael were to inherit the portion of 7 nations who occupied
Eretz Yisrael.  Why does the Prophet Nehemiah (Chapter 9) -- which is
recited every day in our prayers -- mention only six of them?


End of Volume 25 Issue 27