Volume 25 Number 36
                       Produced: Wed Dec  4  7:40:03 1996

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

A Worthy Cause
         [Sam Saal]
Get/Agunah Lists (2)
         [Russell Hendel, Avi Feldblum]
Hirsch Cross-reference
         [Eli Clark]
Israel Summer Camps
         [Bob Klein]
         [Cathrine S. Perel]
North Pole
         [Menashe Elyashiv]
Pronounciation of Yisachar's name (2)
         [Barry Best, Avi Feldblum]
Riddle (2)
         [Saul Mashbaum, Art Werschulz]
         [Al Silberman]
What ever happened to the seventh Canaanite nation?
         [Eliezer Finkelman]


From: Sam Saal <saal@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:29:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A Worthy Cause

 From the Empire web site (http://www.empirekosher.com/)

Help the Hungry: Collect Empire Thanksgiving Turkey Labels 

Empire Matches Pound for Pound in Food Bank Donations

For the fourth year in a row, Empire Kosher Poultry, Inc., the world's
largest kosher poultry producer has pledged that it will match weight
labels from Empire Thanksgiving turkeys pound for pound with donations
of kosher poultry products to food banks, food pantries and soup

"Part of our responsibility as a food company is to help alleviate
hunger when possible. And because we are a kosher company, we have a
particular obligation to do a 'mitzvah' (a good deed) whenever we can.
The Thanksgiving season is especially appropriate for this type of joint
effort: We all have so much to be thankful for, and most people want to
share their bounty with those less fortunate," said an Empire

The program has become a tradition in many communities, and individual
consumers throughout the United States supported the Empire Kosher Pound
for Pound Promotion in unprecedented numbers during the 1995
Thanksgiving season. Weight tickets from hundreds of Thanksgiving
turkeys, totaling 5,740.89 lbs. or almost three tons of turkey -- were
sent to Empire by a 95-year old widow, second grade school children,
synagogue sisterhoods, and caring families from 18 states.

Here are some of the sentiments expressed in notes enclosed with the
weight labels. ""How wonderful that the company we'd buy from anyway
also turns out to have a social conscience. As people who have
volunteered and helped raise money for Yad Ezra, we know what a
tremendous thing you are doing." (Oak Park, MI) "Yad Ezra's needs grow
significantly each year, so that your giving back to our community is
very much appreciated." (Beverly Hills, MI). "It is for programs such as
this that I am proud to keep Kashrut and to patronize companies like
Empire that enable me to observe this mitzvah." (Slingerlands, NY).

The Pound for Pound program will be repeated during November, 1996.
Here's how the promotion works: Empire will match the weight of your'
Empire Kosher Thanksgiving turkey in kosher poultry donations to food
banks. Please send labels by December 31, 1996, to:

Pound for Pound
Empire Kosher Poultry, Inc.
PO Box 165
Mifflintown, PA 17059

You will receive a certificate acknowledging your contribution, as well
complimentary coupons for Empire Kosher products. Weight labels may
also be collected by students, sisterhoods, etc. as a project for

Sam Saal      <saal@...>
Vayiphtach HaShem et Pea haAtone


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:22:19 -0500
Subject: Get/Agunah Lists

In Vol 25 #27 anonymous raises an old (mail)jewish theme---the plight of
men/women who do not give/receive gets. She has a simple partial

>>lists ..of men (and women) who have either not given or accepted Gets>>

I am sure we all sympathize with her plight.

I would like to accentuate the question not only from a (rightful)
emotional point of view but from an HALACHIC point of view.

Can any POSAYK out there give me one good reason why such lists should
not be routinely posted on shule bulletin boards.

I understand mail jewish has a 1000-2000 subscription.  If 1 out of
every 10 of us pestered our synagogues to participate in such a list
wouldn't it help alot of people.

I am reminded by analogy of a story in a Young Israel where I davened a
few years ago. Two bakeries on pesach had promised---one in writing and
one orally--that they would not start baking bread till after Yom Tov
(Pesach).  Well, we had a committee...a group of people went over and
peeked thru windows and came back with a report. It turned out that the
bakery who promised us in writing lied and the other bakery kept its
word.  The Rabbi quickly announced the result from the pulpit and the
congregation did not buy from the baker that lied.

The point? Shouldn't we treat our women at least as nicely as we treat
our food? Why are we so avid about Kashruth and blithely ignore
situations that lead at the very least to great emotional pain and at
very most to leaving Judaism, and God forbid, Mamzayruth.

I reiterate that my point is halachic (not (only) emotional). Aren't
people who can prevent a sin responsible if that sin happens.  The
avayrahs involved are

Don't cause emotional anguish (depriving someone of the right to marry)
Don't put a stumbling block before the blind (even if these tied up
	women don't sin they are still being placed in a stumbling 
The law to give charity (which includes finding mates)
Love thy neighbor as thyself (just because it is a cliche doesn't mean
		it doesn't apply)

and finally if I am permitted "halachic lisence" it possibly also
involves the prohibition of hurting widows (since in Samuel during
Avshalom's rebellion the women he raped were call "living widows" since
King David never knew them again).

All that is being asked for is not a black list or hit list or who is
picking up girls but a simple list of people who were asked to give
divorces (or Chalizah) and refused.

With all the email bulletin boards that exist I should think that
maintaining such a database once it is set up (with a possible provisio
to erase the names of offenders after they gave the divorce /chalizah)
would not even cost to much

I hope the above inspires someone with authority into action.

Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d., ASA, rhendel @ mcs drexel edu

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:01:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Get/Agunah Lists

Russell Hendel writes:
> Can any POSAYK out there give me one good reason why such lists should
> not be routinely posted on shule bulletin boards.

I have thought about adding something like this to the mail-jewish Web
page. I have two questions, one along Russell's line:

Could those members of the list who have direct access to appropriate
Poskim enquire as to whether this is a desirable line of action?

Second, I would like a similar piece of information from a US legal

How bext can I set this up so as to not incur legal liability from
people who get listed on this list.

If I am able to get positive responses on these two issues, I will set
up such a web page and make it available via email archive retrieval as



From: Eli Clark <ECLARK@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 11:34:52 -0500
Subject: Hirsch Cross-reference

In Volume 25 Number 30, Ken Miller <kgmiller@...> wrote:

>I have always been amazed by the commentary of Rav Samson
>Raphael Hirsch, specifically in how he takes the root letters of Hebrew
>words and compares them to similar roots to derive their meaning.
>Often I will come across a word elsewhere, and ask "How does Rav
>Hirsch explain the meaning of that root?" Unfortunately, I have no way
>of figuring out where he might mention this particular word.

>Has anyone ever gone through any of Hirsch's works and simply
>cross-reference the places where he explains various roots? One
>does not need to be a brilliant scholar to publish a list which says that
>ABC is discussed in Gen 12:34, and DEF is in both Ex 23:45 and Dt
>34:56. This list does not need to draw any conclusions about what XYZ
>means; I can try that myself, once I know where to look.

In fact, someone is currently preparing a comprehensive "dictionary" of
biblical roots based on Hirsch's methodology.  The work includes all
Hebrew roots in the Bible.  Each entry provides a general definition of
the root and more specific definitions reflecting the range of different
usages of the root in the Bible.  Where possible, these refer to verses
upon which Hirsch himself analyzes the root.  In addition, each entry
includes a list of related roots, based on Hirsch's theory that Hebrew
roots are grouped in families which share common themes.

This work is being compiled by my father, who can be reached at
<rabbiclark@...>  It will be published God-willing by Feldheim in
late 1997 and has received the approval and authorization of the Breuer

Until the publication of this work, one may refer to the Hebrew
translation of Hirsch's commentary.  In the back of one or more of the
volumes, the translator has compiled an index of roots and identified
where each is discussed in Hirsch's commentary.  Unfortunately, the list
is incomplete and contains many errors.




From: Bob Klein <KL2@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996  14:27:14 EST
Subject: Israel Summer Camps

We are thinking of sending our daughter, who is now in 7th
grade, to a camp in Israel this summer. We have received information
about one such camp, Camp Ariel.  We would appreciate any information
that anyone can supply about this camp as well as pointers to
other Orthodox camps (preferably coed) for girls entering 8th
grade next Fall.  Ideologically our preference is "modern"
Orthodox, religious Zionist and with a good conversational
Hebrew program.  Thanks in advance for any ideas and input.
(I checked on the Virtual Jerusalem page and did not see much.)

Robert P. Klein                          <KL2@...>
Phone: 301-496-7400                      Fax: 301-496-6905
Mail:  DCRT/CFB/ETS, 12A/1033, 12 SOUTH DR MSC 5607,
       BETHESDA, MD 20892-5607


From: Cathrine S. Perel <perel@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 03:57:14 -0600
Subject: Mikvah

Does anyone know the location of a wheelchair accessible mikvah?

Cathy Perel


From: Menashe Elyashiv <elyashm@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:19:02 +0200 (WET)
Subject: North Pole

 I saw an article by Rav Goren z"l many years ago about this problem.I
don't remember where. His conclusion was that you should use the times
of the closest jewish community.
 I heard from Rav Auerbach z"l (while waiting for a huppa in Alon Moreh)
that the Tora was given at Har Sinai which has normal hours. I
understood that he did not want to posek theoretical questions!
 Menashe Elyashiv  Bar Ilan U. Lib of Jewish Studies 


From: Barry Best <bbest@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 20:04:00 EST
Subject: Pronounciation of Yisachar's name

I have heard two different customs regarding the pronounciation of
Yisachar's name the first time it appears (in VaYatzay): (i) it is
pronounced the same way as it always is -- Yisachar; and (ii) it is
pronounced as it is written -- Yisaschar.  I have read that the silent
sin is becuase Yisachar "gave" it to his son who he originally named Yov
(B'raishis 46:13), but whose name was changed to Yashuv (B'Midbar 26:24)
becuase Yov is the name of a particular idol.  In Vayatzay, Yov (Yasuv)
was not yet born and so perhaps, Yisacahr may have been called

Does any one know if any poskim address this pronounciation issue?
Could anybody give me any sources to refer to?

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:09:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Yisachar's name

Related Question:

The Sefer Bnei Yisaschar, I'm pretty sure that the pronunciation there
is Yisaschar, not Yisachar, but cannot find where in the Sefer he
discusses it. If anyone can give me a reference to where it is discussed
in his sefer, I would appreciate it.

Avi Feldblum


From: <mshalom@...> (Saul Mashbaum)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 08:15:51 EST
Subject: Riddle

> Name something that a Kohen can see and a Yisrael can see, but a Levi will
> never see.

Modifying Israel Rosenfeld's answer somewhat, I would propose as the
solution "his grandson's piyon haben". See Yoreh Deah 305:18.

Saul Mashbaum

From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:31:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Riddle

> Name something that a Kohen can see and a Yisrael can see, but a
> Levi will never see.

The Pidyon haBen of a grandson.

Art Werschulz (8-{)}   "Metaphors be with you."  -- bumper sticker
GCS/M (GAT): d? -p+ c++ l u+(-) e--- m* s n+ h f g+ w+ t++ r- y? 
Internet: <agw@...><a href="http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~agw/">WWW</a>
ATTnet:   Columbia U. (212) 939-7061, Fordham U. (212) 636-6325


From: <asilberman@...> (Al Silberman)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:44:36 -0500
Subject: Trivia

In MJ V25n30 <shimmy@...> (Shimmy Y Messing) writes:

> To continue on trup trivia, what is the only posuk in the torah with all
>the letters of the alef-beis?

I don't know the answer to this question but as far as I know the only
Posuk in Tanach that has all 22 letters plus the 5 Sofis (menazpech) is
Zephania 3:8.


From: <Finkelmans@...> (Eliezer Finkelman)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 00:05:06 -0500
Subject: Re: What ever happened to the seventh Canaanite nation?

In Mail-jewish Vol. 25 #30, Rafi Stern accurately remembered a Jewish
source that the seventh nation fled to Africa, and asked if anyone could
locate it.

With the help of the Bar-Ilan CD-Rom, I located these sources: The
Talmud Yerushalmi uses this explanation for the absence of the
Girgashites from lists of the conquered Canaanite nations, though the
Jews were to inherit their lands (Shvi'it 6:1).
 Rashi cites this tradition in Exodus 34:11; Ramban cites it in Exodus
3:8 & 13:5.


Eliezer Finkelman


End of Volume 25 Issue 36